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Thread: Electricity is scary! [Transportation Thread]

  1. #1721
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    I'd like to see you run a high volume pump appliance on a battery.
    You don't have to. Just the vehicle. That way you could fit a power plant to the pump specifically, it's more optimized that way, just like powered speakers.
    meh

  2. #1722

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    I'd like to see you run a high volume pump appliance on a battery.
    You don't have to. Just the vehicle. That way you could fit a power plant to the pump specifically, it's more optimized that way, just like powered speakers.
    Are you that stupid, or just trolling?

  3. #1723
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    I'd like to see you run a high volume pump appliance on a battery.
    You don't have to. Just the vehicle. That way you could fit a power plant to the pump specifically, it's more optimized that way, just like powered speakers.
    Are you that stupid, or just trolling?
    you tell me.
    meh

  4. #1724
    Donor lubica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    ...and in case of natural disaster, when the electricity is down, all fire truck and ambulances will be unable to recharge.

    :disrupt:
    Just like happens to hospitals when the electricity goes down, right?
    Hurricane floods in Florida took out backup generators on many hospitals and other medical facilities. There's a really sad story about a nursing home in Tampa from last year's shitstorm


    Quote Originally Posted by Narmio
    Welcome to Dwarf Fortress, where there is a fine line between insanity and gameplay. The line menaces with spikes of obsessive compulsion.

  5. #1725
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lubica View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    ...and in case of natural disaster, when the electricity is down, all fire truck and ambulances will be unable to recharge.

    :disrupt:
    Just like happens to hospitals when the electricity goes down, right?
    Hurricane floods in Florida took out backup generators on many hospitals and other medical facilities. There's a really sad story about a nursing home in Tampa from last year's shitstorm
    The nursing home that was built on land that shouldn't have been built on due to flood risks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  6. #1726

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    I'd like to see you run a high volume pump appliance on a battery.
    You don't have to. Just the vehicle. That way you could fit a power plant to the pump specifically, it's more optimized that way, just like powered speakers.
    Are you that stupid, or just trolling?
    The question as yet unanswered about your very own posting. :thinking:

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

  7. #1727
    Donor lubica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    ...and in case of natural disaster, when the electricity is down, all fire truck and ambulances will be unable to recharge.

    :disrupt:
    Just like happens to hospitals when the electricity goes down, right?
    Hurricane floods in Florida took out backup generators on many hospitals and other medical facilities. There's a really sad story about a nursing home in Tampa from last year's shitstorm
    The nursing home that was built on land that shouldn't have been built on due to flood risks?
    nope.
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...rma/661228001/


    Quote Originally Posted by Narmio
    Welcome to Dwarf Fortress, where there is a fine line between insanity and gameplay. The line menaces with spikes of obsessive compulsion.

  8. #1728

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    I'd like to see you run a high volume pump appliance on a battery.
    You don't have to. Just the vehicle. That way you could fit a power plant to the pump specifically, it's more optimized that way, just like powered speakers.
    Are you that stupid, or just trolling?
    you tell me.
    No, you tell me about proposing a Tesla fire engine with >10,000 lbs battery pack, separate fuel-powered pump, fuel tank and about 5,000 gallons of water. On top of lithium battery. Lithium, which reacts explosively with water and is prone to runaway reactions at high temperatures. On a fucking FIRE TRUCK.

  9. #1729
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Elon Musk is going to solve fires though
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  10. #1730
    SAI Peregrinus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    I'd like to see you run a high volume pump appliance on a battery.
    You don't have to. Just the vehicle. That way you could fit a power plant to the pump specifically, it's more optimized that way, just like powered speakers.
    Are you that stupid, or just trolling?
    you tell me.
    No, you tell me about proposing a Tesla fire engine with >10,000 lbs battery pack, separate fuel-powered pump, fuel tank and about 5,000 gallons of water. On top of lithium battery. Lithium, which reacts explosively with water and is prone to runaway reactions at high temperatures. On a fucking FIRE TRUCK.
    Lithium batteries don't have elemental lithium. They don't catch fire when wet. Thermal runaway is an issue, but no more so than with diesel fuel.

    Having a separate pump is moronic though. Electric pumps are fine.

  11. #1731
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    Basically fire trucks are always on when on site. You gotta have that water pump running, you need hydraulics. If it's night time you will always need that light tower because it's like an artificial sun. All of those things need a lot of power and you will simply drain your battery super fast.

    Sometimes interventions last for hours and having separate power generators would just be dumb and would require extra manpower

    I guess you could use them for tunnel fires since you wouldnt have to provide extra oxygen for the engine but the batteries would probably just catch fire

    Even in regular vans for transporting men to location batteries wouldnt be good. After we drop off firemen we usually set up on site command center with atleast four radios on an antenna for boosting signal and a transportable repeater which we dont usually use but hey.
    Last edited by Smarnca; January 23 2018 at 08:27:35 PM.



  12. #1732

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    Quote Originally Posted by SAI Peregrinus View Post
    Lithium batteries don't have elemental lithium.
    Yes, I know. They do have lithium ions though, which are even more reactive. Just how reactive, you ask?

    If you conduct any kind of battery research, you have to do it inside a zero humidity lab. With only a few people inside. One extra person just breathing can ruin the pilot run of battery cells.

    They don't catch fire when wet.
    Car fires with lithium batteries cannot be extinguished with water. They need to use special foam for that. Comparing lithium with diesel is beyond idiotic, especially so for a self-professed engineer.

  13. #1733
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    People confuse the energy requirements of driving a car with utility applications. A car crusing across the highway barely uses 15kw. Only the very short acceleration phases consume energy.
    When you look at the actual energy requirements of either direct electrical or hydraulic driven utility appliances, the extremely low energy density of lithium batteries (~0.6 MJ per KG) vs stupid diesel (48 MJ per KG) shows why you can simply not engineer a fire engine on current performance levels. Just for comparison sake, a small tank of diesel beats a gargantuan 10 ton battery: 200kg of diesel= 9600 MJ, 10000kg Li Ion= 6000 MJ.

  14. #1734

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    Elon Musk personally infuses every Tesla battery back with the power of his genius. He can power something as simple as a fire truck pump just with a couple of tweets.

  15. #1735
    metacannibal's Avatar
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    This discussion here is a typical example of modern bullshitism. The problem is reality runs on reality-os that does not allow modifications. But marketing can skew what people percieve of reality. And Musk knows how to spin that one, especially in a time and age where people are educated to be stupid.

  16. #1736
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    http://www.firehouse.com/product/123...ric-fire-truck

    Oh look, the auxiliary diesel engine that powers the pumps can even recharge the batteries in 15 minutes.
    meh

  17. #1737
    metacannibal's Avatar
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    So you have pumps in the 120-180kw range PER PUMP on a fire engine that you drive with an "auxiliary" diesel generator. What you then have is exactly what is in that Press bullshit: An actual main engine that you call auxililiary because you slap a token electric drive to the wheels instead of driving it directly. Its the concept used in diesel electric locomotives applied to a fire truck. And if it was actually a better concept, it would have been used in decades.
    This is just a marketing BS to have something "HYBRID" for people who dont do the reality TM math.

  18. #1738
    metacannibal's Avatar
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    And if you are actually curious on the energy levels by fire engine pumps, feel free to read this document:
    https://www.rosenbauer.com/fileadmin...mpen_PR_DE.pdf

    Warning: Its not english but in engineering language.

  19. #1739

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    Quote Originally Posted by metacannibal View Post
    And if you are actually curious on the energy levels by fire engine pumps, feel free to read this document:
    https://www.rosenbauer.com/fileadmin...mpen_PR_DE.pdf

    Warning: Its not english but in engineering language.
    Can you summarize it in a tweet?

  20. #1740
    metacannibal's Avatar
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    Most are 120-180 kw, very few on the low end are 80kw, some special ones are beyond 200kw.

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