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Thread: Docker - Hype or Help?

  1. #1
    Dee Jiensai's Avatar
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    Docker - Hype or Help?

    So, anyone got an opinion? (informed or otherwise)

  2. #2

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    Both. Pretty much essential to a modern setup but huuuuugely overhyped in and of itself.

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    Donor Aea's Avatar
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    It's quite opinionated and a bitch to scale down. What's your use case for it?

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    Donor halbarad's Avatar
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    The right use case for it is the important thing. It's definitely good and I really want to do more with it but I don't have much of a use for it right now.

  5. #5
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    What IS the right use case?
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  6. #6
    Dee Jiensai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    What IS the right use case?
    I think the main use is rapid and automatic deployment and management of a swarm of services for example in cloud computing.
    Load high on your application services? No problem, push button and start 10 more spplication servers/services.

    Something like that.

  7. #7
    Dee Jiensai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aea View Post
    It's quite opinionated and a bitch to scale down. What's your use case for it?
    I want to use it for something like http://resin.io

    Of course our company wont pay 50 $ amonth for the actual thing ("But its not hosted in house....") so I want to use it to deploy software/updates to embedded systems in the wild. (Raspberries)

    So far, i have to say that it feels reasonably nice, but there is just too much information (thats a nice problem to have for a change) and the terminology is often misused or confusing in 3rd-party articles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    What IS the right use case?
    Saving shitloads of money on your cloud-based dev/test infrastructure with per-second billing and instant container startup times.

    Everything else is hard and probably not worth your time unless you're willing to go all in.

  9. #9
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aea View Post
    It's quite opinionated and a bitch to scale down. What's your use case for it?
    This is an important point. You will really benefit from a correct architecture and development process to leverage it.

    Also, by all means learn docker, but its probably best (and most useful to you) if you learn it in the context of a larger ecosystem like Kubernetes.
    Last edited by erichkknaar; October 5 2017 at 02:12:37 PM.
    meh

  10. #10

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    +1 for kubernetes. Docker's a neat tool, but you need some other system to orchestrate it to build systems out of it, and that is kubernetes.

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    Donor halbarad's Avatar
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    Any good resources for kubernetes beyond the docs? It's not something I've had to look at yet but I can imagine it will come up at some point in the not too distant future.

  12. #12
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halbarad View Post
    Any good resources for kubernetes beyond the docs? It's not something I've had to look at yet but I can imagine it will come up at some point in the not too distant future.
    We were pointing people at this for a quick (free) intro at last job:

    https://www.udacity.com/course/scala...ernetes--ud615
    meh

  13. #13
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    What IS the right use case?
    Saving shitloads of money on your cloud-based dev/test infrastructure with per-second billing and instant container startup times.

    Everything else is hard and probably not worth your time unless you're willing to go all in.
    The thing is though, we use our old (and therefor already paid for) vmware equipment for dev/test.. I've also yet to work for a company that had a compelling argument for moving away from their own hardware to a cloud service other than CLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!! ! o365 is the same with the only benefit from that being if you bundle in lync because then the per-user cost is actually less than paying for the CALs locally..

    Sure, i get it that there are actually use cases for this stuff. Its great to be able to spin up a farm when needed and thin it out again when its not in use and save money doing it.. But when your apps don't support it, and you treat it like your old monolithic server farm where every machine must be cared for a nurtured then its not for you and dont try and shoehorn your pathetic environment in to it and also don't come crying to me when it works out more expensive to keep running than your old 6U of servers and storage did...
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  14. #14

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    To be fair if most of your software is COTS and you're still counting your server consumption in low-number Us then Docker isn't going to help much in any scenario; it wasn't built for you. In theory you can get denser allocation than VMWare but you lose all then number backup & disaster recovery gubbins.

  15. #15
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post

    The thing is though, we use our old (and therefor already paid for) vmware equipment for dev/test..
    Most of the problems, with software development, in my experience, are caused by this fact. Its because software is built and tested in environments that don't even get close to resembling what they both run on and encounter from a load perspective on a daily basis, so when you work all that out, it ends up making the TCO on that software way more expensive in the long run actually.

    In this case VMware can't even get within an order of magnitude of cloud, cost wise. Also, think about how long I have to own the test environment with VMware vs cloud. Does your test team work 24/7?
    meh

  16. #16
    Mallet Head Donor 56k Lagman's Avatar
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    Is Docker not just like KVM

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    I should be home.now but I keep stopping to post. I'm in need of a mega poo. so much so that I'm tempted to leave slurry across one of these gardens and deal with the wiping later. gonna toss a coin

    phoneposting

  17. #17
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 56k Lagman View Post
    Is Docker not just like KVM
    No. You aren't running the whole OS and fake computer in there. It's much closer in concept to a fancy chroot that's happening way down in the kernel.

    Also, there is some fancy stuff with the file system which basically means each instance only contains the data that is different from the image, meaning if you make 100 x 1gb images with kvm, you used 100gb of storage, whereas in docker you have 1gb of storage used, and that won't grow if you are doing it right.

    Finally workflow and tooling. docker is more or less effortless and proper use of kvm is anything but. I used to run a fairly sizable openstack deployment that used xen and kvm at different stages of its life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Most of the problems, with software development, in my experience, are caused by this fact.
    You work in a fucking paradise comrade. Most of my problems are just caused by IBM/TCS/etc./etc./etc.

  19. #19
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Most of the problems, with software development, in my experience, are caused by this fact.
    You work in a fucking paradise comrade. Most of my problems are just caused by IBM/TCS/etc./etc./etc.
    Yes. I once got on a sales call with, and I shit you not, literally 15 ibm people. On a pre sales call. To "capture requirements". Thanks, but no thanks.

    At one point someone agreed to pilot clearcase, and we were like, nope!

  20. #20

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    15? Must've been a small opportunity

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