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Thread: God Hates THE WORLD (Natural Disaster Thread)

  1. #1301
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    The chinese are pulling it off quite decently tho
    yes, let's draw inspiration from China, a place where they routinely build entire cities and just let them fill up from the countryside, where they in turn have the advantage of access to hundreds of years of knowledge about infrastructure placement and urban planning.
    and just retroactively apply that to densely populated europe and imagine that nothing could ever possibly go wrong as we build hundreds of nuclear reactors, all done by the lowest bidder and a significant chunk of whom will be run by private enterprise in a decidedly unsafe manner in the name of profit margins in a time of increasingly unstable weather patterns and with large scale shifts in population on the mid-term horizon as a result of that.

    nothing could ever possibly go wrong here.
    So your answer is:



    i mean sure but ill prefer to do something about it beforehand.


    

  2. #1302
    Duckslayer's Avatar
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    Most of mans attempst at reengineering our way through a problem, be it changing meandering waterways to creatle more land for building, introduction of species to new continents as pest control, hydroelectric dams and so on start off well meaning before inevitably spiraling out of control with usually devastating consequenses for local biodiversity or land quality. We should be rightly sceptical of additive methods of dealing with our excesssive pollution when there is still so much not understood about the complex interactions of the earth's systems , and when there is still so much low hanging fruit in tems of energy needs and use we can deal with first.

  3. #1303
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Yeah nuclear is way worse than renewables and probably even fossil fuels especially if you disregard the environmental devastation and vast lakes of mildly radioactive and carcinogenic chemical waste produced in the 3rd world as a byproduct of the factories making renewable energy systems of course.

    Basically if you aren't running a water mill and living from organic subsistence farming traditional hunter gatherer you're probably fucking up the planet in some way.
    the sticky problem is still in deployment, would you hand a nuclear plant over to some tinpot dictator in central africa, knowing it's possible to get it to produce weapons grade material ?

    to say nothing of the time it takes to build the damn things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Truth be told we will have to resort to some sort of geoengineering at this point to solve GW. I honestly doubt we can do anything else that would be enough at this point.
    the risks are enormous, the returns nebulous and the people pushing for it are dubious.
    You realise that you need a lot more infrastructure than a reactor to produce weapons grade plut right? It's not the 1950's anymore (and even then reprocessing was a national programme). Reprocessing fuel from modern, oxide reactors is serious fucking business and that's even before we start talking about meme reactors which make it next to impossible to extract plut from.


  4. #1304

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    The chinese are pulling it off quite decently tho
    yes, let's draw inspiration from China, a place where they routinely build entire cities and just let them fill up from the countryside, where they in turn have the advantage of access to hundreds of years of knowledge about infrastructure placement and urban planning.
    and just retroactively apply that to densely populated europe and imagine that nothing could ever possibly go wrong as we build hundreds of nuclear reactors, all done by the lowest bidder and a significant chunk of whom will be run by private enterprise in a decidedly unsafe manner in the name of profit margins in a time of increasingly unstable weather patterns and with large scale shifts in population on the mid-term horizon as a result of that.

    nothing could ever possibly go wrong here.
    While i agree with you i want to make one thing known.

    I have recently watched a few documentaries about China and its production capabilities and global exports. Starting with the production of medical raw materials such as anti-biotics. Then it pulled me into a rabbit hole.

    What was very clear is that all stuff for domestic consumption is way more quality controlled, especially after the baby formula milk toxin deaths, than the export products. This also goes for domestic use of solar panels it seems. Offcourse i dont know this for a fact but it is logical to extend this line to quality of nuclear power plants.
    The party might not care much about the accidental death of a few thousand peasants but i doubt they want to live in a post=apocalyptic wasteland either.
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  5. #1305
    Donor Shiodome's Avatar
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    I don't know why, but i ended watching a bunch of 'living in china' youtube channels for a while recently (both chinese nationals and immigrants). the vibe they all consistantly gave was people in china don't buy chinese products if they can avoid it, and will tend to buy taiwanese/japanese/american where they can (which is a result of them being higher quality and/or perceived as higher status). the unanimous belief amongst those people was that the good quality stuff gets exported because other countries' consumers wouldn't tolerate the quality of the domestic product. This belief isn't substantiated but is very strongly represented as being 'common wisdom' amongst chinese nationals.

  6. #1306
    Keckers's Avatar
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    It depends where you are in China I think (based on conversations with a friend's brother and a mate who married a Chinese girl). Domestic goods production and consumption varies massively region to region and city to city.

    It probably comes down to local party bureaucracy and how much they are connected to factory management or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  7. #1307
    Donor Shiodome's Avatar
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    that has to be a pretty strong indicator of general shitiness, surely?

  8. #1308
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Well yeah of course, but what do you expect from a fetishised labour bureaucracy in a country as large as China.

    When you unite the majority of a continent under a cultural meme which reduces the individual to a unit of labour I don't think the quality of consumer goods is much of a priority.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  9. #1309
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Yeah nuclear is way worse than renewables and probably even fossil fuels especially if you disregard the environmental devastation and vast lakes of mildly radioactive and carcinogenic chemical waste produced in the 3rd world as a byproduct of the factories making renewable energy systems of course.

    Basically if you aren't running a water mill and living from organic subsistence farming traditional hunter gatherer you're probably fucking up the planet in some way.
    the sticky problem is still in deployment, would you hand a nuclear plant over to some tinpot dictator in central africa, knowing it's possible to get it to produce weapons grade material ?

    to say nothing of the time it takes to build the damn things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Truth be told we will have to resort to some sort of geoengineering at this point to solve GW. I honestly doubt we can do anything else that would be enough at this point.
    the risks are enormous, the returns nebulous and the people pushing for it are dubious.
    You realise that you need a lot more infrastructure than a reactor to produce weapons grade plut right? It's not the 1950's anymore (and even then reprocessing was a national programme). Reprocessing fuel from modern, oxide reactors is serious fucking business and that's even before we start talking about meme reactors which make it next to impossible to extract plut from.
    Could always make dirty bombs, innit.

    Africa isn't the place that consumes energy so it's a moot point. And the amount of screeching around the safest and cleanest among reliable forms of power generating is amazing. It's almost as dumb as anti-vaxxers.
    Motherfuckers will gladly move to Pripyat in half a century to escape the smog.

  10. #1310

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    I didn't meant my example literally. Just to illustrate that the reasoning against renewables that "site <x> has no <y>" is a non-issue. We already do distribute energy across regions and countries in Europe to mitigate against power shortages or to simply sell exess capacity. This needs to be enhanced and done on a global scale. Where energy from Scandinavia doesn't end up in Africa, but e.g. in northern Germany (if neede). And energy from there in Belgium, if needed. And from Belgium in southern France etc. That's what I meant to illustrated.
    you're litterately waffling about a solved problem that is being addressed right now, you know that right ?
    Sure.

    We both basically agree here. It's just that we don't seem to understand each other's post well.

  11. #1311
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    So your answer is:

    *snip*


    i mean sure but ill prefer to do something about it beforehand.
    if you could stop constructing strawmen for a bit i would certainly like to take that actual discussion.

    but it seems like your definition of "doing something about it" consists entirely of a unprecedented construction program of nuclear reactors in the most densely populated regions of the world with nary a consideration spared for any of the challenges associated with doing so.

    and anything that doesn't conform to that is obviously the same as committing literal suicide, it's not really the grounds for a reasonable discussion m8.

    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    You realise that you need a lot more infrastructure than a reactor to produce weapons grade plut right? It's not the 1950's anymore (and even then reprocessing was a national programme). Reprocessing fuel from modern, oxide reactors is serious fucking business and that's even before we start talking about meme reactors which make it next to impossible to extract plut from.
    yes, but it's infrastructure that is well within the grasp of a nation state, see North Korea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    While i agree with you i want to make one thing known.

    I have recently watched a few documentaries about China and its production capabilities and global exports. Starting with the production of medical raw materials such as anti-biotics. Then it pulled me into a rabbit hole.

    What was very clear is that all stuff for domestic consumption is way more quality controlled, especially after the baby formula milk toxin deaths, than the export products. This also goes for domestic use of solar panels it seems. Offcourse i dont know this for a fact but it is logical to extend this line to quality of nuclear power plants.
    The party might not care much about the accidental death of a few thousand peasants but i doubt they want to live in a post=apocalyptic wasteland either.
    i am less worried about nuclear power in china than i am of the tories, or the national equivalents, flogging off publicly owned nuclear plants for fuck all to their mates who then runs it into the ground in the name of profits, true neoliberal style.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Well yeah of course, but what do you expect from a fetishised labour bureaucracy in a country as large as China.

    When you unite the majority of a continent under a cultural meme which reduces the individual to a unit of labour I don't think the quality of consumer goods is much of a priority.
    eeh, the place is a great deal more complex than that.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  12. #1312

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    You need to redirect your inquiry to institues like Stanford University or Deutsches Institut zur Wirtschaftsförderung, which calculated them. Not me. I leave that to the experts, ya know.
    [citation needed]
    Oh I cited the Stanford project already back a few pages. And referred to it a few times afterwards here.

    As for the Deutsches Institut für Wirtschaftsförderung (DIW), this is from multiple TV documentaries/reports, mostly from their expert on climate matter, Claudia Kemfert. They've even got an English version of their side: https://www.diw.de/sixcms/detail.php...01.c.377258.en
    Last edited by Hel OWeen; March 12 2019 at 11:37:29 AM. Reason: Quote fixed.

  13. #1313
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    Sidequestion: I'm among those people who actually think the earth in 50 years time will be quite a hellhole and therefore I won't have kids. Idiotic way of thinking, maybe quite unreasonable and definitely going against my own genes and natural instincts, but I was always a terrible pessimist. Hopefully things will change, but for now i'm in the "we're all megafucked" camp.

    How many of y'all follow that line of logic re: future generations and having kids?
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  14. #1314
    Keckers's Avatar
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    I'm more likely to take my personal circumstances into consideration when thinking about having kids because I see it as a selfish act anyway.

    Note: I don't think selfish acts are inherently negative.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  15. #1315
    Sp4m's Avatar
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    weak pull out game.

  16. #1316
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Sidequestion: I'm among those people who actually think the earth in 50 years time will be quite a hellhole and therefore I won't have kids. Idiotic way of thinking, maybe quite unreasonable and definitely going against my own genes and natural instincts, but I was always a terrible pessimist. Hopefully things will change, but for now i'm in the "we're all megafucked" camp.

    How many of y'all follow that line of logic re: future generations and having kids?
    Mrs Knaar and I agree with you completely.
    meh

  17. #1317

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Sidequestion: I'm among those people who actually think the earth in 50 years time will be quite a hellhole and therefore I won't have kids. Idiotic way of thinking, maybe quite unreasonable and definitely going against my own genes and natural instincts, but I was always a terrible pessimist. Hopefully things will change, but for now i'm in the "we're all megafucked" camp.

    How many of y'all follow that line of logic re: future generations and having kids?
    Count me in.

    Although my decision against kids way back then stems from a different reason, I came to realize that i would have been terribly sorry for them. And that I would have been to blame to expose them to such a grim future. A life that I personally think will be constant struggle for them.

  18. #1318
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    You realise that you need a lot more infrastructure than a reactor to produce weapons grade plut right? It's not the 1950's anymore (and even then reprocessing was a national programme). Reprocessing fuel from modern, oxide reactors is serious fucking business and that's even before we start talking about meme reactors which make it next to impossible to extract plut from.
    yes, but it's infrastructure that is well within the grasp of a nation state, see North Korea.
    I'm not denying that; however NK's programme is based off a nearly 70 year old design. It's much more onerous to reprocess fuel from modern reactors and if proper safeguards are in place with regular inspections by the appropriate organisations it's impossible to divert material away; even if you do have a clandestine reprocessing programme.


  19. #1319
    Venec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Sidequestion: I'm among those people who actually think the earth in 50 years time will be quite a hellhole and therefore I won't have kids. Idiotic way of thinking, maybe quite unreasonable and definitely going against my own genes and natural instincts, but I was always a terrible pessimist. Hopefully things will change, but for now i'm in the "we're all megafucked" camp.

    How many of y'all follow that line of logic re: future generations and having kids?
    I won't have kids too.

    From ideological viewpoint: there needs to be less human on Earth, not more.
    From selfish viewpoint: I don't want to deal with the annoying kid shit, sporadic encounters with friend's offspring gives me a clear picture how having kids is god damm annoying.
    From practical viewpoint: I don't have anyone to have kids with and it will probably stay that way.

    Plenty of people I know also don't want kids.

  20. #1320
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    Well yeah, everyone has a personal motive as well (being a irresponsible hedonistic suicidal druggie alcoholic doesn't help me either, basically I'm sp4m who puts on a condom or pulls out), I was just wondering how much prediction of the future influenced people regarding this question nowadays as the proliferation of scientific predictions about climate change enters the public mind.
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

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