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Thread: God Hates THE WORLD (Natural Disaster Thread)

  1. #2481
    VARRAKK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    This hydrogen port thing doesn't seem particularly scalable in any time frame that matters. If it was going operational today and there were no construction issues and everything was perfect it may be viable but it honestly looks a bit like a local pet project with the energy research industry finding a few dozen supporting papers for it.

    It has interested me enough to see if it is on the radar of my mate who works in energy development policy and strategy, I'll see what he reckons.
    CSIRO is doing a lot of research into it.

    But yeah, mostly it seem like a 2030s thing to get the final 5-10% out of the energy system / as a long haul transportation fuel.

    There's certainly some fossil fuel input into it, given fossil hydrogen seems to get spruiked as part of the mix.
    It's not difficult at all.
    First few prototype facilities would take time to build.
    It is also very easy to scale up.

    But making Hydrogen requires a lot of energy.
    If you use Wind or Solar, the usage doesn't matter that much as it is virtually free.
    They do require a lot of surface.

    Storage of Hydrogen is harder, since this molecule is so small it can literally escape through the steel walls in a tank.
    Not to mention through gaskets and other connected pipes.

    The most significant impact will be jobs.
    As this thing can be produced anywhere, it will eliminate today's supply lines.
    Large Liquid Bulk haulers would be obsolete, a good thing imo.

    Another pollution most neglects is noise. The world would be a much quieter place.
    Something all marine life would appreciate.
    The Epic Store is amazing, I've been able to save so much money by not buying their games.

  2. #2482
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    But making Hydrogen requires a lot of energy.
    If you use Wind or Solar, the usage doesn't matter that much as it is virtually free.
    They do require a lot of surface.
    where are your production-cost-free windmill and PV cell factories located ?
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  3. #2483
    Donor lubica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    But making Hydrogen requires a lot of energy.
    If you use Wind or Solar, the usage doesn't matter that much as it is virtually free.
    They do require a lot of surface.
    where are your production-cost-free windmill and PV cell factories located ?
    If you amortize the CAPEX over the lifetime of those installations, and you admit the energy required for performing electrolysis is in fact free (how much does the sun or the wind cost?), it becomes absurdly cheap. Coal plants are cheaper to build, but the cost of coal over the same period of time loses out to solar and wind, am I'm not even including the cost of emissions into this. You also should consider the amount of hydrogen produced as a side-effect of BWR NPPs. That's another 'free' source of hydrogen, that currently just gets vented for safety reasons.


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  4. #2484
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lubica View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    But making Hydrogen requires a lot of energy.
    If you use Wind or Solar, the usage doesn't matter that much as it is virtually free.
    They do require a lot of surface.
    where are your production-cost-free windmill and PV cell factories located ?
    If you amortize the CAPEX over the lifetime of those installations, and you admit the energy required for performing electrolysis is in fact free (how much does the sun or the wind cost?), it becomes absurdly cheap. Coal plants are cheaper to build, but the cost of coal over the same period of time loses out to solar and wind, am I'm not even including the cost of emissions into this. You also should consider the amount of hydrogen produced as a side-effect of BWR NPPs. That's another 'free' source of hydrogen, that currently just gets vented for safety reasons.
    i reiterate my question, where are your production-cost-free windmill and PV cell factories located ?

    because neither thing appears from a magicians top-hat like a rabbit, you have to build them and the reason they're cheap now is that there is more production capacity than demand on the raw materials side, as well as on the production side.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  5. #2485
    Yankunytjatjara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    But making Hydrogen requires a lot of energy.
    If you use Wind or Solar, the usage doesn't matter that much as it is virtually free.
    They do require a lot of surface.
    where are your production-cost-free windmill and PV cell factories located ?
    If you amortize the CAPEX over the lifetime of those installations, and you admit the energy required for performing electrolysis is in fact free (how much does the sun or the wind cost?), it becomes absurdly cheap. Coal plants are cheaper to build, but the cost of coal over the same period of time loses out to solar and wind, am I'm not even including the cost of emissions into this. You also should consider the amount of hydrogen produced as a side-effect of BWR NPPs. That's another 'free' source of hydrogen, that currently just gets vented for safety reasons.
    i reiterate my question, where are your production-cost-free windmill and PV cell factories located ?

    because neither thing appears from a magicians top-hat like a rabbit, you have to build them and the reason they're cheap now is that there is more production capacity than demand on the raw materials side, as well as on the production side.
    As recently discussed, it's in the fossil fuel investments and subsidies. That's all thrown into emission generating shit, so it's thrown away (needs cleaned up within the decade), so diverting it effectively gives you your free windmill and PV factories. And a lot of them, ~1TWh out of the FF investment done in 2018 which was still almost 10 times bigger than that in renewables!

    Your position that an increase in demand would increase prices unmanageably needs some backing, rare earths have a market size ~1/50 of the renewables investments so even if their costs quintuplicated that would barely be noticeable. All it would mean is that other, less concentrated deposits would become marketable, reducing China's monopoly. And other technologies would become economical.

    Then there's the actually free free stuff, like the excess capacity thrown away because it happens at peak sun/wind which would be immediately reusable and therefore offers a manageable route into the business model.
    My solo pvp video: Yankunytjude... That attitude!
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  6. #2486
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    Study finds quarter of climate change tweets from bots

    The research team analysed 6.5 million tweets from the period surrounding President Donald Trump's June 2017 announcement that he was removing the United States from the Paris climate accord.

    The finding showed 25% of tweets on climate change were likely posted by bots. Most of those tweets centred on denials of global warming or rejections of climate science.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  7. #2487

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    A quarter of all tweets are by bots.

  8. #2488
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    (China's) carbon emissions have fallen by an estimated 25% since the outbreak began, nitrous oxide emissions have fallen by 36%, coal use is at a 4-year low, and flights are down 70% throughout the country.
    https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/con...bon-emissions/

    That's 6% drop in global emissions. What if everyone stopped travelling by air? :bigbrain:

      Spoiler:
    And curbed the needless consumptionism? :galaxybrain:
    Last edited by Venec; February 26 2020 at 09:04:19 PM.

  9. #2489
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    It might surprise the average FHCer, but it's probably not a workable solution to expect people to sit in their apartments for the rest of their lives.

  10. #2490
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    It might surprise the average FHCer, but it's probably not a workable solution to expect people to sit in their apartments for the rest of their lives.
    Maybe if MMOs didn't suck so bad.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  11. #2491
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    A quarter of all tweets are by bots.
    Yeah, but if they make the study specifically about climate change bots, the sweet, sweet grant money flows.
    meh

  12. #2492
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    It might surprise the average FHCer, but it's probably not a workable solution to expect people to sit in their apartments for the rest of their lives.
    If we lived in a world which valued communal luxury instead of private luxury we probably wouldn't feel the need to escape 1000 miles away every year.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  13. #2493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    It might surprise the average FHCer, but it's probably not a workable solution to expect people to sit in their apartments for the rest of their lives.
    If we lived in a world which valued communal luxury instead of private luxury we probably wouldn't feel the need to escape 1000 miles away every year.
    Communal luxury sounds great until someone vomits in it and nobody cleans it up

    Have you heard of the Hulme Crescents?


    Poland treats me like shit and I hate them as a result of it

  14. #2494
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    It might surprise the average FHCer, but it's probably not a workable solution to expect people to sit in their apartments for the rest of their lives.
    If we lived in a world which valued communal luxury instead of private luxury we probably wouldn't feel the need to escape 1000 miles away every year.
    Communal luxury sounds great until someone vomits in it and nobody cleans it up

    Have you heard of the Hulme Crescents?
    What is "paying for a janitor"?

  15. #2495
    Paradox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    It might surprise the average FHCer, but it's probably not a workable solution to expect people to sit in their apartments for the rest of their lives.
    If we lived in a world which valued communal luxury instead of private luxury we probably wouldn't feel the need to escape 1000 miles away every year.
    Communal luxury sounds great until someone vomits in it and nobody cleans it up

    Have you heard of the Hulme Crescents?
    What is "paying for a janitor"?
    They're called "police" and every single one of them is corrupt.

    They're corrupt because if they weren't they would have to live in social housing.


    Poland treats me like shit and I hate them as a result of it

  16. #2496
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    It might surprise the average FHCer, but it's probably not a workable solution to expect people to sit in their apartments for the rest of their lives.
    If we lived in a world which valued communal luxury instead of private luxury we probably wouldn't feel the need to escape 1000 miles away every year.
    Communal luxury sounds great until someone vomits in it and nobody cleans it up

    Have you heard of the Hulme Crescents?
    What is "paying for a janitor"?
    They're called "police" and every single one of them is corrupt.

    They're corrupt because if they weren't they would have to live in social housing.
    I dunno about you but I've never seen a cop sweep a sidewalk or empty a public trashcan.

  17. #2497
    Paradox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    It might surprise the average FHCer, but it's probably not a workable solution to expect people to sit in their apartments for the rest of their lives.
    If we lived in a world which valued communal luxury instead of private luxury we probably wouldn't feel the need to escape 1000 miles away every year.
    Communal luxury sounds great until someone vomits in it and nobody cleans it up

    Have you heard of the Hulme Crescents?
    What is "paying for a janitor"?
    They're called "police" and every single one of them is corrupt.

    They're corrupt because if they weren't they would have to live in social housing.
    I dunno about you but I've never seen a cop sweep a sidewalk or empty a public trashcan.
    Hulme isn't a sidewalk. And while they existed the Hulme Crescents were too dangerous to be cleaned and also proved impossible to police. It isn't even the worst example.

    I'm as social democrat or social liberal or progressive whatever as you like but large scale social housing projects, however well intentioned, well designed or luxurious will ruin themselves as soon as they are built

    Because human beings are filthy horrible animals with no empathy or loyalty to anyone but themselves or their immediate family.

    I wish that it were not the case but it just is. A successful socialist vision WILL need to take that into account.


    Poland treats me like shit and I hate them as a result of it

  18. #2498
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    >Force all your poors to live in a segregated, stigmatized community
    >Fail to fund necessary public services
    >Watch it go to shit
    >”Social housing doesn’t work!”

    Last edited by Lachesis VII; February 27 2020 at 03:46:27 AM.

  19. #2499
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    Subsidized housing needs to be mixed in with full price housing, so there is communal pressure to help keep the worst elements in check. One problem is the nimby nature of the rest of the city to want to put it all in one place where they don't have to look at it.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  20. #2500
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Bingo.

    Once again landlords are the problem.

    Fun fact: man who designed Pruitt Igoe also designed the World Trade Center.
    Last edited by Lachesis VII; February 27 2020 at 05:30:47 AM.

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