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Thread: God Hates America (Natural Disaster Thread)

  1. #161

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Nice strawman.

    The entire coast does not need protection, just the densely populated parts.

    Probably looking at a few hundred billion to a trillion dollars, spent over a decade or two. Well within our economic capabilities, just not our political capabilities.
    So much for collective well being and equality, only protecting the big cities (and the big business) that exists there whilst leaving more sparsely populated locales to get fucked, eh?




  2. #162
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Nice strawman.

    The entire coast does not need protection, just the densely populated parts.

    Probably looking at a few hundred billion to a trillion dollars, spent over a decade or two. Well within our economic capabilities, just not our political capabilities.
    So much for collective well being and equality, only protecting the big cities (and the big business) that exists there whilst leaving more sparsely populated locales to get fucked, eh?
    Again with the strawman. Please try harder.

    But no, you forgot the part where the Rednecks living in the boonies don't believe in climate change, and so don't need any fancy-schmancy seawalls or wetlands restoration. /s
    Last edited by Lachesis VII; September 8 2017 at 03:23:12 PM.

  3. #163
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Nice strawman.

    The entire coast does not need protection, just the densely populated parts.

    Probably looking at a few hundred billion to a trillion dollars, spent over a decade or two. Well within our economic capabilities, just not our political capabilities.
    So much for collective well being and equality, only protecting the big cities (and the big business) that exists there whilst leaving more sparsely populated locales to get fucked, eh?
    .
    If they don't like it they should vote in someone who will promise to fix things for them...

  4. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Nice strawman.

    The entire coast does not need protection, just the densely populated parts.

    Probably looking at a few hundred billion to a trillion dollars, spent over a decade or two. Well within our economic capabilities, just not our political capabilities.
    So much for collective well being and equality, only protecting the big cities (and the big business) that exists there whilst leaving more sparsely populated locales to get fucked, eh?
    Again with the strawman. Please try harder.
    Not really needed for you Comrade Lach.

    But no, you forgot the part where the Rednecks living in the boonies don't believe in climate change, and so don't need any fancy-schmancy seawalls or wetlands restoration. /s
    You really do embrace killing people for their beliefs, doncha Comrade.
    Last edited by Alistair; September 8 2017 at 03:53:19 PM.




  5. #165
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Why do Americans always make such a big deal about their natural disasters? It happens all over the world you know and I bet your media doesnt even mention stuff like that
    Ah yes, who could forget the Slovenia HurriQuakeFernoNami

  6. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Probably looking at a few hundred billion to a trillion dollars, spent over a decade or two. Well within our economic capabilities, just not our political capabilities.
    For context the damage to Houston alone is expected to come in on the order of $100Bn. Spending 3-4x that to protect core cities and transport links would return on investment in a decade or two.

  7. #167
    Super Chillerator Global Moderator teds :D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiodome View Post
    it's also just true. obviously some people live there but the population density is extremely low.
    That's true of basically everywhere in Ireland that isn't Belfast or Dublin

  8. #168
    Donor Shiodome's Avatar
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  9. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Probably looking at a few hundred billion to a trillion dollars, spent over a decade or two. Well within our economic capabilities, just not our political capabilities.
    For context the damage to Houston alone is expected to come in on the order of $100Bn. Spending 3-4x that to protect core cities and transport links would return on investment when the next guy is in power.
    FYP

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Nice strawman.

    The entire coast does not need protection, just the densely populated parts.

    Probably looking at a few hundred billion to a trillion dollars, spent over a decade or two. Well within our economic capabilities, just not our political capabilities.
    So much for collective well being and equality, only protecting the big cities (and the big business) that exists there whilst leaving more sparsely populated locales to get fucked, eh?
    We can't protect everyone therefore we should protect no one. Interesting position.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  11. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Nice strawman.

    The entire coast does not need protection, just the densely populated parts.

    Probably looking at a few hundred billion to a trillion dollars, spent over a decade or two. Well within our economic capabilities, just not our political capabilities.
    So much for collective well being and equality, only protecting the big cities (and the big business) that exists there whilst leaving more sparsely populated locales to get fucked, eh?
    We can't protect everyone therefore we should protect no one. Interesting position.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Again with the strawman. Please try harder.
    Counter-Argument: Why should the State allow people to live in places subject to regular instances of environmental devastation?

    Since all land is the property of the State, comrade, wouldn't the most efficient choice be to relocate all people away from coastal at-risk environments further inland? After all, we got ALOT of empty inland to work with here.
    Would be cheaper than building Atlantic Wall II: Hurricane Boogaloo certainly. Would also be ecologicly friendly, returning coastal marshland and barrier islands to their natural state and purpose.

    And if people choose to stay, rather than accept the States gracious offer to relocate them, should the State be liable when the next storm hits?

    Really makes you think...
    Last edited by Alistair; September 8 2017 at 03:57:15 PM.




  12. #172
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Nice strawman.

    The entire coast does not need protection, just the densely populated parts.

    Probably looking at a few hundred billion to a trillion dollars, spent over a decade or two. Well within our economic capabilities, just not our political capabilities.
    So much for collective well being and equality, only protecting the big cities (and the big business) that exists there whilst leaving more sparsely populated locales to get fucked, eh?
    We can't protect everyone therefore we should protect no one. Interesting position.
    It's actually a very common trait with conservative argument in the U.S. I've noticed many examples on radio, on TV and from politicians over the years. Sort of all or nothing a topic to shut down rational discussion. Rand Paul's "Socialized medicine leads to gulags is my current favorite".
    meh

  13. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Counter-Argument: Why should the State allow people to live in places subject to regular instances of environmental devastation?
    You mean planning and zoning regulations?

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Counter-Argument: Why should the State allow people to live in places subject to regular instances of environmental devastation?
    You mean planning and zoning regulations?
    Of the kind rejected by Texas on ideological grounds?

  15. #175
    The Pube Whisperer Maximillian's Avatar
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    The other issue is that supposed protections often either shift the problem or can make it worse.

    The US Army Corp of Engineers has spent decades "flood controlling" US rivers. If a flood event is small they work. If a flood event is huge they make the situation worse which is why they wind up blowing up dikes to release flood waters.

    Anti-erosion and surge barriers stop the natural movement of sand and strip beaches. The few mangroves and dunes left untouched by development are wrecked by speeding up water flow.

    The Mississippi delta is the perfect example of this. Once the coastal mouth was a network of wetlands and barrier islands which absorbed the initial force of hurricanes. Walling the river and dredging now means that sediment is carried far out to sea. The coast wetlands have almost vanished as a result and the changes to the water table means that the whole coastline is sinking.

    If you want to spend billions move major populations away from flood plains and hurricane effected coastlines. Anything else is just wasting money.

  16. #176
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post

    If you want to spend billions move major populations away from flood plains and hurricane effected coastlines. Anything else is just wasting money.
    But that would risk totalitarianism. Nothing good comes from mandated relocation of population, regardless of your motivation.

    Incentivize rural people to move with positive measures such as housing credits, land buybacks, job programs, etc. Protect urban cores with good engineering. Let a century or so of extreme weather do the rest.

  17. #177

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post

    If you want to spend billions move major populations away from flood plains and hurricane effected coastlines. Anything else is just wasting money.
    But that would risk totalitarianism.
    It would do nothing of the sort.

    Goverment simply says "we will help you move. If you stay, there will be no help, there will be no insurance payment, there will be no Government aid. You are free to do as you wish, but it's on your own dime. Otherwise, we will help you move".

    Free market takes it form there. Smart folks will take the aid and move. Fools will stay, bigger fools will offer free market alternatives for insurance, and when an Irma hits, they all pay for it. System working as intended.

    Simple, and no "totalitarianism" involved.

    Nothing good comes from mandated relocation of population, regardless of your motivation.
    seeing that coming from a die-hard Communist.




  18. #178

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    Also, pic appreopriate for thread:







  19. #179
    The Pube Whisperer Maximillian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post

    If you want to spend billions move major populations away from flood plains and hurricane effected coastlines. Anything else is just wasting money.
    But that would risk totalitarianism. Nothing good comes from mandated relocation of population, regardless of your motivation.

    Incentivize rural people to move with positive measures such as housing credits, land buybacks, job programs, etc. Protect urban cores with good engineering. Let a century or so of extreme weather do the rest.
    Actually the push is happening anyway.

    Big parts of New Orleans and the surrounding areas remain vacant as no one can get insurance and you can't get loans for businesses and property without insurance.

    If the predictions of climate change are realized places like New Orleans will either be abandoned or surrounded by 30 m tall sea walls.

    People will move if they face getting wiped out every few years or so.

  20. #180
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Nice strawman.

    The entire coast does not need protection, just the densely populated parts.

    Probably looking at a few hundred billion to a trillion dollars, spent over a decade or two. Well within our economic capabilities, just not our political capabilities.
    So much for collective well being and equality, only protecting the big cities (and the big business) that exists there whilst leaving more sparsely populated locales to get fucked, eh?
    Again with the strawman. Please try harder.
    Not really needed for you Comrade Lach.

    But no, you forgot the part where the Rednecks living in the boonies don't believe in climate change, and so don't need any fancy-schmancy seawalls or wetlands restoration. /s
    You really do embrace killing people for their beliefs, doncha Comrade.
    Did you not notice the sarcasm tag, comrade?

    If you're going to expend resources protecting people, it makes sense to spend those resources where they protect the most people. That's just common sense.

    No one, whether they believe in climate change or not, deserves to be fucked by it. No one should be forced off their land or out of their homes. But if I have a choice between building a seawall to protect Houston or New Orleans or Miami, versus the bayou or some sand dunes, I'm protecting the big cities.

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