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Thread: God Hates America (Natural Disaster Thread)

  1. #621
    Donor lubica's Avatar
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    didn't find a 'global environmental clusterfuck countdown' thread, so I'll post this here:
    https://www.theguardian.com/environm...hange-warnings


    Quote Originally Posted by Narmio
    Welcome to Dwarf Fortress, where there is a fine line between insanity and gameplay. The line menaces with spikes of obsessive compulsion.

  2. #622
    Donor Sparq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lubica View Post
    didn't find a 'global environmental clusterfuck countdown' thread, so I'll post this here:
    https://www.theguardian.com/environm...hange-warnings
    The Club of Rome had (albeit very broadly) the right idea back in '72 & '73. Unfortunately it appears that in the present day no where near enough of us listened.

    There are other warning signs, too.

  3. #623
    Donor lubica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparq View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica View Post
    didn't find a 'global environmental clusterfuck countdown' thread, so I'll post this here:
    https://www.theguardian.com/environm...hange-warnings
    The Club of Rome had (albeit very broadly) the right idea back in '72 & '73. Unfortunately it appears that in the present day no where near enough of us listened.

    There are other warning signs, too.
    It's not that people didn't listen, or even enough of them, it's the fact that there was intentional misinformation put out that discredited science, and infected politics and public discourse with bullshit 'alternative facts' and oil lobby-paid opinions. The people spreading the misinformation knew it was fucking lies, but profits come first. The scientific evidence for global warming as a result of human activity has been quite conclusive for at least 20 years now, yet you would know it, if you only looked at the various panels and commitees on environmental policies in the US and some other developed industrialized countries (like 'Straya), and the publically stated beliefs of the people manning them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Narmio
    Welcome to Dwarf Fortress, where there is a fine line between insanity and gameplay. The line menaces with spikes of obsessive compulsion.

  4. #624
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Look at the fucking morons the media give a microphone to whenever climate change comes up. There'a always at least one who is a sceptic on any panel. We're not even at the point of public discussion of how to deal with it, we're still in the dark ages of asking if it is even real.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  5. #625
    Alex Caine's Avatar
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    I was told on the highest authority (the President of the US no less!) that its a Chinese hoax, so i don't see the issue.

  6. #626
    Donor Sparq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lubica View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparq View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica View Post
    didn't find a 'global environmental clusterfuck countdown' thread, so I'll post this here:
    https://www.theguardian.com/environm...hange-warnings
    The Club of Rome had (albeit very broadly) the right idea back in '72 & '73. Unfortunately it appears that in the present day no where near enough of us listened.

    There are other warning signs, too.
    It's not that people didn't listen, or even enough of them, it's the fact that there was intentional misinformation put out that discredited science, and infected politics and public discourse with bullshit 'alternative facts' and oil lobby-paid opinions. The people spreading the misinformation knew it was fucking lies, but profits come first. The scientific evidence for global warming as a result of human activity has been quite conclusive for at least 20 years now, yet you would know it, if you only looked at the various panels and commitees on environmental policies in the US and some other developed industrialized countries (like 'Straya), and the publically stated beliefs of the people manning them.
    Oh yeah, it's no secret our government is corrupted by coal interests, that is when it isn't being outright corrupted by whatever agenda Mr Murdoch or some other oligarch is pushing on us.

    In fact, our freshly minted PM was the very same larrikin who brought a lacquered lump of the stuff into Parliament last year to soundly lecture us all about the perils of Coalaphobia, when he was still Treasurer. Just the other day he told us the best way to help farmers struggling with the drought was to pray for rain.



    I would still argue we're) in the position we find ourselves because we didn't reach a critical mass of properly informed people but the reason that didn't happen is exactly the one you posit: as conclusive as the evidence compiled has been, the damage done by malicious interference in the discourse has quite probably doomed us.

    Earth: she's cooked.


    EDIT: on a more US-centered note, I was equally appalled and amused yesterday to read about the man-made lakes of pig shit starting to burst in North Carolina. The state agency that reports their status relies on self-reporting by farmers and the logical presumption is if the farmers have evacuated then they can't be there to monitor whether every dam is intact - so it would seem reasonable to at least assume the possibility that there are more lakes overflowing with effluent than could have been reported - however, an industry group (North Carolina Pork Council) was simultaneously claiming more were reported busted than there really were... needless to say this was probably a result of optimism without cause.
    Last edited by Sparq; September 20 2018 at 01:31:19 PM.

  7. #627
    Donor lubica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparq View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparq View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica View Post
    didn't find a 'global environmental clusterfuck countdown' thread, so I'll post this here:
    https://www.theguardian.com/environm...hange-warnings
    The Club of Rome had (albeit very broadly) the right idea back in '72 & '73. Unfortunately it appears that in the present day no where near enough of us listened.

    There are other warning signs, too.
    It's not that people didn't listen, or even enough of them, it's the fact that there was intentional misinformation put out that discredited science, and infected politics and public discourse with bullshit 'alternative facts' and oil lobby-paid opinions. The people spreading the misinformation knew it was fucking lies, but profits come first. The scientific evidence for global warming as a result of human activity has been quite conclusive for at least 20 years now, yet you would know it, if you only looked at the various panels and commitees on environmental policies in the US and some other developed industrialized countries (like 'Straya), and the publically stated beliefs of the people manning them.
    Oh yeah, it's no secret our government is corrupted by coal interests, that is when it isn't being outright corrupted by whatever agenda Mr Murdoch or some other oligarch is pushing on us.

    In fact, our freshly minted PM was the very same larrikin who brought a lacquered lump of the stuff into Parliament last year to soundly lecture us all about the perils of Coalaphobia, when he was still Treasurer. Just the other day he told us the best way to help farmers struggling with the drought was to pray for rain.



    I would still argue we're) in the position we find ourselves because we didn't reach a critical mass of properly informed people but the reason that didn't happen is exactly the one you posit: as conclusive as the evidence compiled has been, the damage done by malicious interference in the discourse has quite probably doomed us.

    Earth: she's cooked.


    EDIT: on a more US-centered note, I was equally appalled and amused yesterday to read about the man-made lakes of pig shit starting to burst in North Carolina. The state agency that reports their status relies on self-reporting by farmers and the logical presumption is if the farmers have evacuated then they can't be there to monitor whether every dam is intact - so it would seem reasonable to at least assume the possibility that there are more lakes overflowing with effluent than could have been reported - however, an industry group (North Carolina Pork Council) was simultaneously claiming more were reported busted than there really were... needless to say this was probably a result of optimism without cause.
    Pork Council downplaying pigshite issues? Say it ain't so

    On topic of fossil fuels, FWIW Slovenia's last big energy infrastructure was another coal-powered ~300MW (iirc) thermal&power stack, and the next one is a series of hydro plants on the lower part of a not particularly big or powerful (in terms of waterflw) river, that would add about 5% to the total national capacity, but would take 30 years to build and fuck up the surrounding riverside forever. In 30 years, those extra 5% won't even cover energy consuption increase due to economic growth. We could have gone solar, we have a company who makes panels here. But unlike China, Germany, and USA where those producers got subsidized, we subsidize local, shitty, brown coal, coz fuck solar. :/


    Quote Originally Posted by Narmio
    Welcome to Dwarf Fortress, where there is a fine line between insanity and gameplay. The line menaces with spikes of obsessive compulsion.

  8. #628
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    Well yes solar is idiotic. Whoever thinks otherwise either has a vested interest in solar panel production ( or something related to it ) or is an idiot.


    

  9. #629
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Solar is fine in specific places
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  10. #630
    Donor lubica's Avatar
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    It's free energy (minus the setup obv) and it's modular. Above all, no CO2.


    Quote Originally Posted by Narmio
    Welcome to Dwarf Fortress, where there is a fine line between insanity and gameplay. The line menaces with spikes of obsessive compulsion.

  11. #631
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lubica View Post
    It's free energy (minus the setup obv) and it's modular. Above all, no CO2.
    So its not free? Not even mentioning the problems with steady supply of energy or what havoc it causes on the electric grid?
    We need to either go nuclear, fusion, store massive amounts of energy long term or find a cheap way of capturing co2. Untill then we are quite fucked.


    

  12. #632
    Donor lubica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica View Post
    It's free energy (minus the setup obv) and it's modular. Above all, no CO2.
    So its not free? Not even mentioning the problems with steady supply of energy or what havoc it causes on the electric grid?
    We need to either go nuclear, fusion, store massive amounts of energy long term or find a cheap way of capturing co2. Untill then we are quite fucked.
    I never said it's an end-all-be-all solution. Localized smart grids are being worked on, in anticipation of decentralized energy production and storage. Which is going to involve hydrogen and fuel cells, and for instant buffer purposes batteries as well, one way or another. So if you have a way to locally store energy, into ready-for-transport containers, you solve much of the issue. Nuclear is still going to be a thing, I agree. What IS a silly idea, is building fuckoff huge solar plants in the middle of nowehre, hundreds of kms away from where that energy is needed.

    e: but yea, aside from the setup cost, sunshine is free (for now), unlike coal, oil, gas, or uranium, you know, fuels.


    Quote Originally Posted by Narmio
    Welcome to Dwarf Fortress, where there is a fine line between insanity and gameplay. The line menaces with spikes of obsessive compulsion.

  13. #633

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    Solar and wind just need a good solution for the power storage (and preferably also transport in physical form without intercontinental transfer line losses..) for them to be really viable for most of our needs. One local solution geography permitting is to use the excess available power to pump water into dam reservoirs for future use.

  14. #634

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Look at the fucking morons the media give a microphone to whenever climate change comes up. There'a always at least one who is a sceptic on any panel. We're not even at the point of public discussion of how to deal with it, we're still in the dark ages of asking if it is even real.
    But muh balance of opinions, can't be biased, man!

    You have to be skeptic, be woke, man!

    We need to give every retarded opinion in the universe a platform, anything else is censorship of our free speech. People are smart enough to choose what's best for them!

  15. #635
    Duckslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Look at the fucking morons the media give a microphone to whenever climate change comes up. There'a always at least one who is a sceptic on any panel. We're not even at the point of public discussion of how to deal with it, we're still in the dark ages of asking if it is even real.
    But muh balance of opinions, can't be biased, man!

    You have to be skeptic, be woke, man!

    We need to give every retarded opinion in the universe a platform, anything else is censorship of our free speech. People are smart enough to choose what's best for them!
    That's why im a staunch fundamentalist catholic. Its a valid opinion about the universe!

  16. #636
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Hello from rain

  17. #637
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparq View Post
    I was equally appalled and amused yesterday to read about the man-made lakes of pig shit starting to burst in North Carolina.
    God is punishing North Carolina for all that nonsense with gendered bathrooms.
    meh

  18. #638
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lubica View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica View Post
    It's free energy (minus the setup obv) and it's modular. Above all, no CO2.
    So its not free? Not even mentioning the problems with steady supply of energy or what havoc it causes on the electric grid?
    We need to either go nuclear, fusion, store massive amounts of energy long term or find a cheap way of capturing co2. Untill then we are quite fucked.
    I never said it's an end-all-be-all solution. Localized smart grids are being worked on, in anticipation of decentralized energy production and storage. Which is going to involve hydrogen and fuel cells, and for instant buffer purposes batteries as well, one way or another. So if you have a way to locally store energy, into ready-for-transport containers, you solve much of the issue. Nuclear is still going to be a thing, I agree. What IS a silly idea, is building fuckoff huge solar plants in the middle of nowehre, hundreds of kms away from where that energy is needed.

    e: but yea, aside from the setup cost, sunshine is free (for now), unlike coal, oil, gas, or uranium, you know, fuels.
    Fuel is virtually free (3% of total) in nuclear power plants and yet you don't see them poping up all ower the place.

    In the end it comes down to government policy not engineering.


    

  19. #639
    Caldrion Dosto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica View Post
    It's free energy (minus the setup obv) and it's modular. Above all, no CO2.
    So its not free? Not even mentioning the problems with steady supply of energy or what havoc it causes on the electric grid?
    We need to either go nuclear, fusion, store massive amounts of energy long term or find a cheap way of capturing co2. Untill then we are quite fucked.
    I never said it's an end-all-be-all solution. Localized smart grids are being worked on, in anticipation of decentralized energy production and storage. Which is going to involve hydrogen and fuel cells, and for instant buffer purposes batteries as well, one way or another. So if you have a way to locally store energy, into ready-for-transport containers, you solve much of the issue. Nuclear is still going to be a thing, I agree. What IS a silly idea, is building fuckoff huge solar plants in the middle of nowehre, hundreds of kms away from where that energy is needed.

    e: but yea, aside from the setup cost, sunshine is free (for now), unlike coal, oil, gas, or uranium, you know, fuels.
    Fuel is virtually free (3% of total) in nuclear power plants and yet you don't see them poping up all ower the place.

    In the end it comes down to government policy not engineering.
    Sigh this again...

    Nuclear is the most expensive when it comes to generate energy ($/Kwh). And fuel cost might be "only" 3% as you say but it is scarce and competition for it is rising fast thus prices are trending steadily upward and is likely to cause shortages in fuel availability in the future. Also you totally wreck the place where you mine it. Thats why we dont mine it and we have some of the largest deposits of it.

    The only reason for using Nuclear is if you cannot produce enough electricity by other means because of: Location, lack of space etc.

  20. #640
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    Nuclear is cheaper than coal ...
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost...city_by_source

    As for ecological damage just check out the damage done in solar panel production around china. It aint pretty.


    

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