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Thread: Mittani's CSM Twitter Updates

  1. #81
    Moderator Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyrieee View Post
    I'm eager to see how they can convince me that's the case.
    For all their shouting about Fearless being about debate and playing devil's advocate it sure didn't read like it. "We will do this and that."
    truth be told, the strategic always defeats the tactical, even if the latter can upset the former. CCP is a business, should circumstances dictate required changes, any decent company reinvents itself and adopts changes for the product or service.

    I'm much more concerned with CCP's internal processes of learning lessons and turning that into best practices. They show such classic signs of enterprise not consolidating due to startup syndromes. How many times do they have to shoot themselves in the foot, if they really want to continue it is time for inner circles and stone tablets with awesome to get out of the way. Anyway, I can write a wall of text on that but this is really CCP's beef to chew.

    Last year ccp's brand integrity took a hit. This year it took a massive hit. In enterprise development, you have 3 strikes before you have to reinvent yourself thoroughly.

    All of this, could have been prevented. And yeah, all of it was visible to be happening long, long before events culminated into the causes of these particular hiccups.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
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  2. #82
    Reed Tiburon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    I'm much more concerned with CCP's internal processes of learning lessons and turning that into best practices. They show such classic signs of enterprise not consolidating due to startup syndromes. How many times do they have to shoot themselves in the foot, if they really want to continue it is time for inner circles and stone tablets with awesome to get out of the way. Anyway, I can write a wall of text on that but this is really CCP's beef to chew.
    You gotta stop doing that

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  3. #83

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    Here's the extensive personal trip report.

    Arrived Tuesday at 2am, got Nonnis, went to bed.

    Wednesday I had all to myself, so I did some summit prep and then hit up Islenskibarrin, which is where all the expat CCPers drink, and proceeded to get drunk and gather intel. This is pretty much how real summit work goes - most of how you find out about undercurrents of what's taking place within CCP, as an outsider, is to damage your liver and develop contacts over beer. If you don't develop contacts, you don't find out where the rot really is coming from, if there really is rot or not, etc. You have to be a social guy with a tough liver. The rest of the CSM arrived at 2am around mid drinking binge/political rampage.

    Obviously, I'm not saying what I learned from who, but I spent until 2am or 3am doing that, then passed out for a few hours, woke up Thursday morning for Serious Summit Day with the rest of the CSM.

    Thursday morning we saw crap like the unsub metrics, dealt with Incarna/CQ stuff. Relatively simple issues to understand and deal with. After lunch was NeX store discussion, which was contentious if not hostile - not because of ZOMG GOLD AMMO but because the CSM was broadly furious with how botched and prevantable the NeX rollout fuckups could have been avoided, etc. There will be much more detail of this in the CSM statement. Around this point I'm gritting my teeth, everyone in the room is angry, and I tweet when I get home that things are 'grim' but 'making progress', which is true.

    Thursday dinner we skip booze and hoover down coffee to prep for more drinking and intelligence gathering and backchanneling. I make a couple of really cool new friends and end up chilling with them until fuck, almost 5am. Again, you don't get details - that's how backchannels and politics works. So I crash out again for maybe 3.5 hours of sleep.

    By this point my liver is beginning to adjust to the constant barrage of coffee, alcohol, and no sleep. I have no real hangover going into Friday. Friday morning we discuss microtransaction policy/future plans - the takeaway is, ofc, no gold ammo, nothing really new from the May summit, just a whole pile of terrible messaging mostly as a consequence of the NeX fuckups + the Fearless leaks.

    No one in CCP gives a fuck about Fearless, it's toilet reading. Sorry. It looks controversial as hell to players but it's shit. This is where a bunch of you are going to cry and clutch your favorite conspiracy theories, but you don't know what you're talking about. The significance of Greed is Good, ofc, is the leak, the botched handling of the messaging afterwards, the Angryblog, etc. But the newsletter itself is just company garbage, the same crap most companies have.

    Friday went better in general, because Arnar was the CCP point man for those discussions (instead of the NeX people on Thursday) and he's very direct. So I started tweeting more positive things, feeling less grim. Basically I think we won the war, but there's going to be people who will be unsatisfied no matter what. At the point that I think the game is fucked I'd quit and suggest Goonswarm do the same; I don't gain anything by playing or trying to force my people to play a game I think is fucked/a waste of time/etc.

    The statement drafting was hilarious. CCP went off to do theirs, we did ours, spent a couple of hours editing it, and then we had a 'show me yours, show you mine' moment. The CSM statement is far more emotional in tone and directly acknowledges the rage of the playerbase. I'd say we in the CSM are not angry anymore, but we came here mad about the same dumb shit everyone who plays has been mad about. Emergency summits are not fun; we shouldn't have had to come sort this out, it should have been sorted out by CCP learning how to communicate more effectively in the first place.

    After that we did a video blog. I was adamant about that because I think that people need to /see/ Arnar and his body language and how he talks to understand his credibility; text allows people to project whatever they hope or fear onto the words on the page. People also need to see my reactions to things, so they can judge my own comfort level with the resolution of the situation.

    Anyway, this crap is all likely to come out while I'm on a plane back to the states. I'm in the Cafe Paris right now, I was out until 6am last night at bars trying to finally relax and decompress. I slept for another 4 hours after dashing off some tweets and yeah. The adrenaline of the politics and intel-gathering is beginning to wear off and a deep exhaustion is settling in, and I expect I'll get sick for a week (as usual) after this trip like I always do from Iceland.

    I want to sleep for a week and if I have to come back to Reyk before December's summit I'm going to be fucking furious. But, ~imo~ shit's sorted with CCP.

  4. #84
    Moderator Moderator Evelgrivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a mitten View Post
    Wednesday I had all to myself, so I did some summit prep and then hit up Islenskibarrin, which is where all the expat CCPers drink, and proceeded to get drunk and gather intel. This is pretty much how real summit work goes - most of how you find out about undercurrents of what's taking place within CCP, as an outsider, is to damage your liver and develop contacts over beer. If you don't develop contacts, you don't find out where the rot really is coming from, if there really is rot or not, etc. You have to be a social guy with a tough liver. The rest of the CSM arrived at 2am around mid drinking binge/political rampage.
    What would you say with regard to the veracity of the Glass Door postings?

  5. #85
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    Okay, so nobody gives a crap about Fearless and we should ignore everything written in it, that's convenient but it doesn't explain why they're writing about how they're planning to do things they then say they don't intend, or have ever intended to do, while at the same time laying to groundwork to do those things. Let me see all the other fantasy shit they've written in Fearless that they've never intended to do and maybe I'll believe them.

    If after this shitstorm they say they're not going to do non-vanity MT then I'm inclined to believe that they won't for a few years at least, but I won't believe that they never intended to.

  6. #86
    Moderator Moderator Evelgrivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyrieee View Post
    Okay, so nobody gives a crap about Fearless and we should ignore everything written in it, that's convenient but it doesn't explain why they're writing about how they're planning to do things they then say they don't intend, or have ever intended to do, while at the same time laying to groundwork to do those things. Let me see all the other fantasy shit they've written in Fearless that they've never intended to do and maybe I'll believe them.

    If after this shitstorm they say they're not going to do non-vanity MT then I'm inclined to believe that they won't for a few years at least, but I won't believe that they never intended to.
    This is a very good point. The language of the Fearless article is very clearly based on discussions that were taking place within CCP, albeit with an unknown degree of seriousness in consideration. Given the work of CCP's marketing guys, the sheer amount of bullshit it sounds like CSM6 went through in their Noble Exchange dealings, and with additional consideration to the methods CCP Marketing uses to sell everything to everyone, inside and out, I find it highly suspect that the May 2011 issue of FEARLESS was mere "toilet reading." Someone, somewhere, had decided something and right now I am highly concerned whether or not the emergency summit's impact represents any genuine barring of game affecting MT or simple shelving of their plans for a later date.

    If there is not a guarantee of time in the "no gold ammo" statement, we cannot assume anything more than shelving, where taking those plans out for future use is highly plausible.
    Last edited by Evelgrivion; July 2 2011 at 02:09:40 PM.

  7. #87
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evelgrivion View Post
    we cannot assume anything more than shelving, where taking those plans out for future use is highly plausible.
    That was all that could ever be achieved.

  8. #88
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    Nice writeup Mittens. Thanks.

    You can't please everyone but I hope out of all the shitstorm of late CCP take on board their communication with the players... even if that is only through the CSM.

  9. #89
    Reed Tiburon's Avatar
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    After that we did a video blog. I was adamant about that because I think that people need to /see/ Arnar and his body language and how he talks to understand his credibility; text allows people to project whatever they hope or fear onto the words on the page. People also need to see my reactions to things, so they can judge my own comfort level with the resolution of the situation.
    Cheers for this, I actually do think it will help.

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  10. #90
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    Thank you mittens, good read.

  11. #91
    Moderator Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a mitten View Post
    Here's the extensive personal trip report.

    wall of text
    One would think that one of the bigger lessons in all of this is that no amount of going drunk prior to these events was able to prevent the situation where CCP said different things to different parties involved at different times and over time, from customers to CSM. Engaging people with an open visor and friendly smile in full recognition and respect of each other is a good way to even the field, but the moment it switches to party mode all you have left is social engineering which can all too easily cut both ways. Heck, you never know when a scorpion may fall out of thin air right. As always excess is never good, and never a guarantee for anything more than fun talk. Which turned out to be empty.

    It's the brosef syndrome, and it has failed. I am however glad to see that a more professional approach with a hell of a lot of effort of quite a few CSM members took over in these events, that is after all the only thing that can compensate for the pitfalls of the brosef fanboy trap where friends can be friends but business supercedes that without notice.

    As far as the newsletter goes, yeah I agree that this event is more significant than the contents for CCP. Doh. No company likes that stuff happening to it. But trying to paint the newsletter as unimportant, is flat out dumb.

    It's a messaging and mindset affirmation tool, that's how these things are in companies everywhere. People who never see anything else may think it is not the same kind of instrument as that positivity method that came out last year in someone's study on CCP, but that does not change the reality. Mittens mittens, you should know how these things work. It's one of the tools companies use to get all noses pointing the same way and prepare people for the road while making them more aware. Tsk tsk. It's not toilet reading, far from. And no amount of spin will fool folks there. Best CCP could do is simply be fearless and stand up saying "yeah, we let the thinking go too far, in retrospect we see that now considering all the information we now have at our disposal, and yes we need to combine that lesson with that of our communicative challenges and the distance we now see in the triangle of us, product and players". Simple.

    After all these events, CCP as a company will find itself having to internalise lessons learned. They've had huge red flags on communicative challenges in the past, yet each time people can see the hiccups coming from 18 months away - except CCP itself. On top of that, these events are a huge red flag that regardless of the detail level and the outcome there are lessons here on how much segregation you as a company can allow from your immersive product. Something also picked up on by mainstream media, with their observations of a divide between the owner of the game and the owner of the community that fuels the game and the business. It is a catch22, but not necessarily a bad one. Synergy is very possible. And that is good.

    We can talk about that all day, but events speak for themselves. From stakeholder to feedback group, yeah, and in the mean time folks snapped back to stretching awesome and the very same communication issues of the past. Yes, a lot of information was exchanged on the detail level, yet in the mean time different things took place from what was shown. How is that for brosefs =P

    No, I'm not saying there's evil intent, but none of this is rocket science tbh.

    So yeah, I was relieved to see quite a lot of effort, not just on site but also in the messaging back from CSM towards customers. Sure, that is a risk in these circumstances since that always shifts the (frustration) attention from CCP to CSM, but well, any idiot could have seen that coming. On the bright side, it did maintain momentum and (perhaps more importantly) it did provide a means to not allow a vacuum in which folks would go nuts. Yes, people go nuts anyway, but you know the thing of nature and its love for vacuum. So that abrupt filling of vacuum not having happened, yes, definately a good thing.

    The video is going to help a lot. Arnar / Zulu, people can say what they will but he does step into other people's shoes. And that is highly commendable, and I do think people need to see that indeed in his body language. But not just that, I also think people need to see that there are humans behind those pixels. In more way than one.

    I think Two Step deserves a spork, if anyone catches Trebor. That on the side.

    It is going to be an interesting few days. Today yes, but much more so starting tuesday when the media offensive kicks off.

    And once things kick off, I hope people remember where the causes of this completely avoidable mess are.

    Personally, I tip my hat to CSM, as concept and as people. In spite of it all, they did go there, and made the effort.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  12. #92

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    I'm very pleased with the way CSM is handling this.
    Good work all around, I can definately say you're living up to the promises you've made during the elections.

  13. #93
    Madner Kami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    That was all that could ever be achieved.
    Sadly, Barth isn't totally lost to reality with his statements. But this result is still better then nothing. The Sword of MT still hangs on that fine wire, right over CCP's head, if they ever unshelf it. In the meantime I'll lean back and brace for the next impact. (On another note: I do not buy the :lolNewsletter:-arguement of CCP, sorry.)

    Anyways, thanks at the CSM, I'm looking forward to the vid blogs, though I hoped they'd come out this weekend and not yet postponeing it further away (not gonna resub before CCP drops their pants in public). Lest EVE needs is more stalling in that regard.
    Last edited by Madner Kami; July 2 2011 at 04:38:35 PM.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by a mitten View Post
    No one in CCP gives a fuck about Fearless, it's toilet reading. Sorry. It looks controversial as hell to players but it's shit. This is where a bunch of you are going to cry and clutch your favorite conspiracy theories, but you don't know what you're talking about.
    Does this mean I should abort John Turbefield's baby?

  15. #95

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  16. #96
    Moderator Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  17. #97

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    "It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."

    So, what's next?

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellkyte View Post
    "It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."

    So, what's next?
    Since an employee felt it was important enough to risk his job to warn people what was coming to an extent we can only hope someone feels the same way again in the future.

    As to this being a worthless newsletter a) Seleene vigorously disagreed, b) CCP wouldn't have been so upset and c) Someone wouldn't have risked thei job over it.
    Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ‘gold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ‘game destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage.
    Really really concerns me because it makes me think there's a high chance the CSM are helping CCP brush shit under the carpet.

  19. #99
    Leboe's Avatar
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    Mittens, you asked everyone to go over the financials and that produced some pretty obscure theorycrafting. Did any of that get discussed at the summit?

  20. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodgy Past View Post
    As to this being a worthless newsletter a) Seleene vigorously disagreed, b) CCP wouldn't have been so upset and c) Someone wouldn't have risked thei job over it.
    I've never, ever, seen an internal newsletter that wasn't filled with non-controversial fluff that was the firm direction of senior leadership.

    They are lol useless bullshit, but it was instructive to see what CCP thought fell into that category. They low-end HR and marketing staff that make these things don't take it upon themselves to write shit completely against company policy or talk about things the execs have no interest in doing.

    Good to see CCP chastened enough to abandon it though.

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