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Thread: Martial Arts win thread.

  1. #41
    NoirAvlaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sponk View Post
    I do Hung Gar Kung Fu. It's great for people with slow-twitch muscles, unlike Wing Chun.
    Yeah I just found a Sifu in Liverpool that teaches Zhan Zhuang, Tai Chi and Wing Chun. Gonna go check it out at some point and maybe do it along side the Capoeira.

    Reading through the sort of training each form has seems like it's exactly what I'm after, but I'll have to wait to see what the Sifu is like and how the classes are...

  2. #42
    Hatepeace Lovewar's Avatar
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    OP, not sure if you got your answer as I didn't read the entire thread, but what you need to do is build up the muscles in the legs to be able to support the weight of your own leg. This might sound stupid, but your muscles are generally only used to lift your leg off the ground for a second while you take a pace forward.

    What you need to do is build that muscle up, and the only way to do this is by taking a page out of the ballerina handbook of flexibility, sounds phaggoty, well it is, but it'll sort out your leg strength and any males in ballea are phaggots sure, but I bet their tough phaggots.

    Basically, take the kick you have in your picture, move up against a wall and grab ahold of it (door frame or something to support yourself, or lean in to it), then stick your leg up as far as it will go in the position of the desired kick, then practice the kick, while holding your leg in the air. Keep doing this, until you physically are unable to do so any longer. You may look pathetic, and make stupid whimpering girl sounds, but you must keep doing this as it will improve you.

    You will know that it has worked when the next morning you feel as though you have had a double hip replacement operation.

    I used to do this lots, as my legs are pretty heavy and I'd struggle with certain kicks at Kick Boxing, I was soon able to do crescent kicks to above sparring partners heads, much to their dismay .

    Additionally, while this thread is old, I did come here to ask whether any one watched the Dan Henderson vs Shogun fight last night? Probably the best fight I've ever seen.

  3. #43

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    I never bought 'capoeira is fighting disguised as dance to keep it secret'. I mean it looks like fighting disguised as dance. How could anybody look at that and not think it was martial arts training?

    Anyhow I did some Karate as a kid with a good teacher who was very big on exploring other styles, then up until a few years ago I did kung-fu. It was an old family style, but a lot of 'normal' stuff in there because if you want to certify your syllabus it has to be in a recognised style.

    My take on martial arts is that practicing and perfecting a martial art is not fighting. Pretty much any style can make you better at fighting, but there is more to it than that.

    There are a lot of people about these days who insist that anything other than getting an opponent down or dead directly is stupid nonsense and not worth your time.

    Well established and traditional martial arts which have been handed down over decades or even hundreds of years evolved from and are a more sophisticated form of the training which was started to 'just drop the guy now with no-nonsense'.

    Great fighters know things about fighting which can't be picked up by other people at an afternoon self-defence seminar, which can't be picked up by reading a book or even taking a class once a week. They know things about how they got to be great - about they way in which they changed from who they were to who they are. Those techniques, the lessons in learning, in exploring technique, in modifying the mind and the body to make the fighter are in the forms and in the drills.

    As any fighter knows; what you can do is not the whole story. What other people can stop you from doing, and your ability to stop that counts. Maybe you can break a breadboard with your face, but we know about boards right? A lot of 'elaboration' built into martial arts save the fighter the impossible task of reacting to everything, by prompting the desirable reactions in opponents. For great boxers dummies and feints are natural. For those taking classes they are learned, because they are built in to the drills. Making a man drop his gaurd doesn't knock him out. Should no-one learn to do it?

    In my Kung-Fu class there was a lot of confusion for new students. Each time one of us showed them the first form, it's a little different, they say.

    My experience going through that form now is that it's not the same as it used to be. Accident and epiphony have taught me things I didn't learn by asking, and I could never had learned from someone insisting I cut out all that flowery shit. When my lock-break turned into a strike by accident it blew my mind. If I'd been drilling it as three-strikes, it would never have become that. I still can't describe how it works, I can do it only by trying to do somehting else.

    Most people (in my experience) who insist that anything other than the most direct and simplistic movements are shit, have not had the experience of fighting someone who is actually good at all that flowery shit.

    And that's the rub. I can teach someone in an hour how to clout someone without injuring themselves. You could spend a lifetime taking tai-chi chaun, and using what you know effect no damage in a fight, becasue it's so damn hard to do.

    The advanced stuff is advanced. Kung-fu schools where people train like boxers train i.e. really fucking hard are pretty rare. If you trained right, were truly dedicated, and had a good teacher you could go beyond ring style one-on-one style combat, and more and more of the inexplicable and unjustifiable non-sense would make sense. It's supposed to be misunderstood by people who don't practice it, it's supposed to teach you things you don't know you are learning.

    If, as is more likey, you go once a week to a class taught by an idiot who spends the whole time slagging off every other art and maintains his authority by having a square haircut and winding new-kids, then pretty much any boxer, judoka, rugby player - anyone who gets punched in the face a few times a week and doesn't cry about it - is going to kick your arse. And probably his.

    But who cares? Martial arts are cool. Beyond having fights. Watch the wu-shu competitions from China and tell me you don't wish you could do that shit. A lot of people study martial arts and don't fight in the same way that a lot of people shoot guns and don't murder people. At the gun range there will be people talking about how they need to shoot well because the south is about to rise again, and in kung-fu classes there will be people insisting you need to be ready on the streets - but that doesn't preclude non-nutters enjoying the challenge and the perfection of the art.

    If for you it is about self defence - there are unskilled hooligans who are small, thin, drunk and stupid out there who are not worried about self-defence because they will fuck you up and don't give a shit. There are big, strong fit, well trained people who are still worried about safety. Anyone can kill anyone else, almost no-one does. In my experience when it comes to confrontation, knowing that I am the cunt who's going to jail, and they are they cunts getting buried helps things blow-over. Self defence seems to be about your choices more than your skill. If it comes to blows it's pretty unlikely you are fighting the master of a rival kung-fu school who happens to be shit-faced and groping your sister. It's probably some tosser who is going to wind up a haymaker so obvious you'll have time to feel sorry for him before he arrives and can be slapped. Yeah you might face off against someone else who is trained, and might learn the hard way who trained harder, but fuck that's not going to happen by accident now is it?

    Cards on the table about my 'combat' experience; I've never had anything I'd call a fight. I've been attacked with various degrees of success by various numbers of cunts who all got away, and I have been an aggressor very occasionally and the cunts all got away - but standing there exchanging blows IRL hasn't happened to me. People changing their mind about how good an idea it was to start on me has happened more often than anything physical, even when by any rational assessment I was going to get my arse kicked. I am fat and lazy, unfit, slow and have existing health problems. I could barely stand in a ring. But I am a cunt. I will glass someone, I will beat someone with a pool que, I will fucking bite someone, and if someone gives me a knife during a fight they will die. This spirit is IMO more important in being safe from aggressors than technique. That said, I gained this power through the practice and exploration of martial arts.

    If you are looking for the magical third way where you can defeat all comers and they can't hurt you because you're so awesome, but you don't need to harm them - good luck. I don't know anyone who I consider genuinely capable of winning a fight who isn't prepared, even keen to fuck the other people up.

    If you want to beat people up in the pub, do Krav and carry brass knuckles. If you want to be cool and awesome and be in movies do Wu-shu. If you have square hair and small-man syndrome, any - non contact competition sport is for you. If you need to assassinate someone with no evidence and have got 50 years tai-chi is the way. If you're six now and you want to be unbeliviibly hard when you're 16 muay Thai is the answer.

    I'd encourage everyone to try martial arts as a form of recreation, even if it's in the form of recreation. You know; joustes and such. European pike arts aren't as common as wing-chun schools but they are out there, even if they are a bit 'out there'.

    All this nostalgia almost makes me want to do a pressup.


    - Sampanion - Not solely responsible for the alliance tournament IX performance.

  4. #44
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    I'm going to do a Jimmy Saville on this thread, rather than start another one, but I'd like to introduce a more visual element if that's OK?

    I have a lot of time for MMA, I spent a lot of time sparring with friends back in the day in a way that anticipated it (My background is: Kyushindo (archaic) Judo, Shotokan, Aikido, Goju-Kai, Goshen JJ, Wing Chun and JKD)

    To start us off with something commonplace but good, here is a certain potato-headed Russian caveman, back in his heyday vs a very dangerous kickboxer.

      Spoiler:

  5. #45

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    Actually starting a workout program that will hopefully have me back in shape to do martial arts in 10 weeks.

    I've done Cambo/Sambo/Sombo (however you want to spell it), Jujitsu, kickboxing, high school wrestling, and a couple different Karate styles over the years. Sambo was by far my favorite though I didn't learn it at a commercial school. My Sambo instructor was my favorite of any style and openly encouraged you to take from other martial arts instructors (this was pre UFC when cross-training became all the rage).

    He was in the military and taught me how to operate and care for a firearm as well as how to use a knife. We'd also covered a variety of situations like if you were sitting in a chair, swimming, improvised weapons, etc that gave a lot of variety to the class. The training has saved my life twice in the 2 serious fights I've been in.

    Even disregarding all of that learning how to fall safely and roll has probably kept me from breaking bones. Even if you never get into a fight for the rest of your life you're going to fall or be knocked down at some point so doing it to minimize damage is a plus for everyone.

    We did some weightlifting (25-50 reps for exercises, single or two sets with about 25% to 75% max weight depending upon the exercise), grip and wrist strengthening exercises (yes and the jokes about that were ever present), and a few grappling specific drills. For the grip strengthening ones we'd use a Racquetball or one of those stress balls and squeeze with our individual fingers in a variety of ways. You'd work your way up on time and ball "hardness". For wrist we'd use a bo staff (ideally at one end though most couldn't start at that level) and rotate it side to side, forward and back, 25 reps each.

    We'd also practice our techniques on radial tires. If you actually try this be very careful as its very easy to injury yourself using them (had quite a few overconfident karate guests that had never dealt with high resistance sprain their wrists punching them or get knocked silly from a weak block for example).

    Tests involved you grappling (+ striking for black) for 15 mins (yellow) to 2 hours (black) straight with rotating opponents every minute that were expected to go full offensive and competition level power and speed. You didn't have to win within that minute per opponent (as some would be better than you and all were way more rested) but you had to make a good showing of yourself and never give up. Conserving your energy was the biggest goal as well as keeping an eye on your upcoming opponent as you didn't reset to a neutral position after each "match".

    Not trying to say I was awesome or that that school was the best either. I was never the top of the class and I'm sure that there are plenty of schools better. It worked for me though and I haven't been able to find a school of that caliber again.

  6. #46
    dpidcoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xanral View Post
    Even disregarding all of that learning how to fall safely and roll has probably kept me from breaking bones. Even if you never get into a fight for the rest of your life you're going to fall or be knocked down at some point so doing it to minimize damage is a plus for everyone.
    +1 for learning to fall. I did judo for 2 years in college, and even though I sucked, the being able to fall stuff is still insanely useful for pretty much anything. It's definitely saved me from a few sprained wrists or broken ankles. It's also kind of funny to randomly do a tailfall on a hard surface and watch people freak out.

  7. #47
    Synapse's Avatar
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    I did 6 years of Aikido and 1 year of Tai Chi Chuan.

    If you recognise up front that 1) the vast majority of martial arts training will leave you unable to actually fight and 2) even if you can fight, leaving is still best for everyone and that 3) most of us in the civilized world will never need to fight for our lives...then it was a great combination.

    I would highly recommend Tai Chi Chuan (from a certified lineage instructor in a proper school). Learned some amazing things about coordinating my whole body in slow motion that I never would have noticed in any other speed. Taught me all the centering stuff that Aikido and Karate had both expected me to just find out someday. Great awareness of all the muscles in your body and what they are doing. As a result, instructor could literally do things students could not, hold more weight at what seemed to be difficult leverages, etc, and he had direct conscious control of muscles most people don't even know exist.

    Aikido training at a sufficiently serious level is pretty good too. Its physically not a walk in the park but everyone is well aware it's a philosophical exercise as well.

  8. #48
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    I practice the quart of blood technique

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  9. #49
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    If you recognise up front that 1) the vast majority of martial arts training will leave you unable to actually fight and 2) even if you can fight, leaving is still best for everyone and that 3) most of us in the civilized world will never need to fight for our lives... then
    then you save conditioning your hands & feet into unattractive, desensitized clubs and go do some regular exercise.

  10. #50

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    Started up Aikido at the beginning of this month because it seemed like a good group of people and I wanted to learn a bit of a softer style to compliment my Sambo knowledge. Also its been 10 years so wanted to start with something that is the opposite of hardcore.

    I've enjoyed it quite a bit so far, though did have a funny story to relate:
      Spoiler:

    I tend to default to a roll when thrown, and generally on most of the takedowns we've practiced you can roll with them so I've been doing that instead of getting faceplanted. I've asked my training partners and they've been fine with it as it doesn't disrupt what we're practicing. If we're doing something that requires a lock at the end then I don't roll so they can apply the lock but most of the time we don't do that. I've even said that its not like I'm escaping as they still have my arm. It even goes along with what was said when I first started that you're allowed to roll with moves.

    Anyway another student calls the instructor over wanting him to watch me roll with the move to ask what he would counter with. I can tell the instructor is a little bit annoyed and the next move he shows the class is a shoulder "lock" you cannot safely forward or backward roll out of. He turns to me and says: "Let's see you try to roll out of that" to which I reply "I can't" with the hope that would end that discussion. It didn't.

    The instructor then picks to be my partner for practicing the move and places me in the shoulder "lock" and says "Try to roll" to which I repeat "I can't". He places a little bit more pressure on it and repeats the command. I glance around and no one is paying us any attention at this point so I Granby roll (shoulder to shoulder as opposed to shoulder to hip) out of it. He's baffled and I explain the roll to him. That seemed to diffuse things a bit though tomorrow is my next class with him so I guess we'll see then.

    I have 0 interest in "challenging the Aikido style". I'm having fun with it and learning quite a bit I think I can use to positively modify stuff I already know.

  11. #51
    dpidcoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xanral View Post
      Spoiler:
    The instructor then picks to be my partner for practicing the move and places me in the shoulder "lock" and says "Try to roll" to which I repeat "I can't". He places a little bit more pressure on it and repeats the command. I glance around and no one is paying us any attention at this point so I Granby roll (shoulder to shoulder as opposed to shoulder to hip) out of it. He's baffled and I explain the roll to him. That seemed to diffuse things a bit though tomorrow is my next class with him so I guess we'll see then.

    I have 0 interest in "challenging the Aikido style". I'm having fun with it and learning quite a bit I think I can use to positively modify stuff I already know.
    That's the kind of stuff that always pushes me away from martial arts. If I find something cool that works well and isn't dangerous or screwing up the other students, I like it when an instructor works with it rather than get all pissy about insulting his style.

    We'd regularly end up with wrestlers in my judo class, and when they started messing with wrestling moves it usually ended in one of two outcomes:
    1) Someone figured out a good counter, showed the rest of us, and the wrestlers knocked it off as soon as it quit working well
    2) It worked pretty good so the rest of us learned it and started using it.

  12. #52

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    Looks like a good Judo school to me then. We used to do much the same in Sambo and encouraged outside styles to be brought in.

    This was one of my worries with starting back into martial arts. Then again I've had some people try some really ugly things in the past so this is pretty minor. Regardless I'm hoping will pass once the instructor realizes I genuinely want to learn Aikido and am not intentionally trying to be an ass.

  13. #53
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    After almost 4 years of training as a student, I decided to start the instructor education. Not for instructing, but mainly get more out of it personally Feels good.

  14. #54
    big diiiiiiiiick Movember 2012Donor Dark Flare's Avatar
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  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by TZeer View Post
    After almost 4 years of training as a student, I decided to start the instructor education. Not for instructing, but mainly get more out of it personally Feels good.
    Nice I hope that goes well for you. I know my own techniques become more refined when I started teaching others as I had to really start thinking about what would work for them and not just me. That in turn caused me to remove the little cheats I could get away with due to my body type and made those techniques more effective.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by xanral View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TZeer View Post
    After almost 4 years of training as a student, I decided to start the instructor education. Not for instructing, but mainly get more out of it personally Feels good.
    Nice I hope that goes well for you. I know my own techniques become more refined when I started teaching others as I had to really start thinking about what would work for them and not just me. That in turn caused me to remove the little cheats I could get away with due to my body type and made those techniques more effective.
    I must have had it really good in the judo classes I took then. The instructor had us teaching new people stuff pretty much from the second we sufficiently mastered the technique. Generally the instructor would demonstrate some throw on someone a few times (we'd always ask him to do it again because "we missed it that time"), then he'd pair us up with the new people to practice with while he observed and gave advice/answered questions. I ended up being particularly sought after due to the fact that I was very easy to throw (tall and skinny does that) and I never got hurt despite all sorts of crazy landings.

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by dpidcoe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xanral View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TZeer View Post
    After almost 4 years of training as a student, I decided to start the instructor education. Not for instructing, but mainly get more out of it personally Feels good.
    Nice I hope that goes well for you. I know my own techniques become more refined when I started teaching others as I had to really start thinking about what would work for them and not just me. That in turn caused me to remove the little cheats I could get away with due to my body type and made those techniques more effective.
    I must have had it really good in the judo classes I took then. The instructor had us teaching new people stuff pretty much from the second we sufficiently mastered the technique. Generally the instructor would demonstrate some throw on someone a few times (we'd always ask him to do it again because "we missed it that time"), then he'd pair us up with the new people to practice with while he observed and gave advice/answered questions. I ended up being particularly sought after due to the fact that I was very easy to throw (tall and skinny does that) and I never got hurt despite all sorts of crazy landings.
    We did that too and it is helpful, but there is a bit of a difference when you're helping out the new guy and running your own class by yourself. I need to teach everyone of a wide variety of moves and then help them find moves that they can shine with as well as reducing weaknesses. This forces me to put more thought into all the moves I know and consider modifications to them. I have no one to fall back to in solving problems and must do it myself.

  18. #58
    NoirAvlaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xanral View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dpidcoe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xanral View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TZeer View Post
    After almost 4 years of training as a student, I decided to start the instructor education. Not for instructing, but mainly get more out of it personally Feels good.
    Nice I hope that goes well for you. I know my own techniques become more refined when I started teaching others as I had to really start thinking about what would work for them and not just me. That in turn caused me to remove the little cheats I could get away with due to my body type and made those techniques more effective.
    I must have had it really good in the judo classes I took then. The instructor had us teaching new people stuff pretty much from the second we sufficiently mastered the technique. Generally the instructor would demonstrate some throw on someone a few times (we'd always ask him to do it again because "we missed it that time"), then he'd pair us up with the new people to practice with while he observed and gave advice/answered questions. I ended up being particularly sought after due to the fact that I was very easy to throw (tall and skinny does that) and I never got hurt despite all sorts of crazy landings.
    We did that too and it is helpful, but there is a bit of a difference when you're helping out the new guy and running your own class by yourself. I need to teach everyone of a wide variety of moves and then help them find moves that they can shine with as well as reducing weaknesses. This forces me to put more thought into all the moves I know and consider modifications to them. I have no one to fall back to in solving problems and must do it myself.
    This tbh.

    I teach once per week now and I've noticed I've changed a lot of my techniques from "how they work for my body" to "how they should be regardless"... You are forced to think a lot more about every technique, "why am I placing my foot there?", "why do I move from this direction", "How can I make this more efficient" etc instead of just following what you're told with an instructor trying to watch 20 people and correct them all.

    Once you start teaching you(me at least) get really self conscious about what I'm teaching and it forces me to teach it with all those questions in mind, fixing anything that I was doing before that was "wrong" or inefficient. It's good

    Not quite the same as grabbing a beginner during a normal class and going through 1 or 2 techniques.

  19. #59

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    Debating about getting a folding mat for practicing falls and rolls at home. I am considering a Swain Sportsmat which runs $125/$215/$275 for 4'x8'/5'x10'/6'x12' (last one would be something like 1.8x3.7 meters). Also they're in the US which is a plus for shipping cost for me.

    Anyone have any experience with that brand or have any other recommendations?

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by xanral View Post
    Debating about getting a folding mat for practicing falls and rolls at home. I am considering a Swain Sportsmat which runs $125/$215/$275 for 4'x8'/5'x10'/6'x12' (last one would be something like 1.8x3.7 meters). Also they're in the US which is a plus for shipping cost for me.

    Anyone have any experience with that brand or have any other recommendations?
    Can't just use jigsaw mats or judo mats?

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