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Thread: The FHC Social, Political & Economic Science Thread: Are aliens socialists?

  1. #401
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    ITT people don't understand the point of a thought experiment

  2. #402
    Yankunytjatjara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Yankunytjatjara View Post
    Wait I got this.

    Zeekar - suppose that the copy process is this: nano machines take the place of any neurons that naturally die in your brain, until it's entirely substituted. The machines simply replicate the function of the neurons.

    At what point is you not you anymore?
    At the point where you couldn't function without the nanomachines.

    (Don't take the answer too seriously )
    Well you need the neurons to function, so before the copy starts even

  3. #403
    Keckers's Avatar
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    AKA the Triggers' broom problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  4. #404
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Yes its the same point. Continuity is an illusion / mental construct.

  5. #405
    Duckslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Yes its the same point. Continuity is an illusion / mental construct.
    No wonder Achilles has still not caught up to that tortoise!
    My Attorney has advised me to remove my new signature until further notice...

  6. #406

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    It's something that is not measurable by science, something more than just "emergent properties of biological processes" and thus something I don't believe in.
    I wish I had the time to derail this thread even further on this subject, but how do you explain, for example, the placebo effect if consciousness is just the sum of biological processes? Natural sciences can't answer the age old question of who am I and what is my purpose, it's outside of it's realm. As a result your stance means remaining in willfully ignorance on those subjects.
    “The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.”
    ― Werner Heisenberg

  7. #407
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irrelephant View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    It's something that is not measurable by science, something more than just "emergent properties of biological processes" and thus something I don't believe in.
    I wish I had the time to derail this thread even further on this subject, but how do you explain, for example, the placebo effect if consciousness is just the sum of biological processes? Natural sciences can't answer the age old question of who am I and what is my purpose, it's outside of it's realm. As a result your stance means remaining in willfully ignorance on those subjects.
    What do you mean? Placebo effect is likely just a result of biological feedback loop mechanisms. I think X, so I do Y, which creates X. It's measurable and it's an emergent property of biological process?

    Natural sciences can't answer the age old question of who am I and what is my purpose, it's outside of it's realm.
    Yes they can. The answer to the first question is "a collection of biological processes in an organism" but can be distilled back to Physics. As for purpose, the scientific position is that you have no "purpose" in the sense of externally imposed function - you are just the result of random chance. Of course that doesnt stop you picking your own purpose and working towards it.

    As with the previous problem we were discussing, this isnt "wilful ignorance" its just a lack of belief in the supernatural.

  8. #408
    Alistair's Avatar
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    I think the answer is clear: We need to clone Lall then convert the original Lall into organic fertilizer.

    If what Lall says is true, no worries, he will live on and the meat of "original Lall" can be used for whatever purpose best serves society. I.e. shit to grow tomatoes sounds good to me.
    "Nothing left to do, but smile, smile, smile......" Robert Hunter, "He's Gone"



  9. #409
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    If we cloned all FHCers, and gave each clone a forum account, what would the result be?

    Would you be able to tell the difference?
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    If we cloned all FHCers, and gave each clone a forum account, what would the result be?

    Would you be able to tell the difference?
    Really makes you think
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Canadians are usually cooler.
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  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    If we cloned all FHCers, and gave each clone a forum account, what would the result be?

    Would you be able to tell the difference?
    Armageddon, the world cannot possibly cope with twice the idiocy displayed by certain posters here.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  12. #412
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    So I shouldn't worry about being copied and destroyed because I don't exist?

    Right . . . .

    As long as it appears to me that I exist, I am logically going to behave as if I do.

    Now a back up copy like in Car Wars or Paranoia I might consider, but only as a matter of continuing my legacy, and only if I thought my legacy was worth maintaining (i.e. not worth cloning myself to play video games and shitpost all day).
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  13. #413
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    I think the answer is clear: We need to clone Lall then convert the original Lall into organic fertilizer.

    If what Lall says is true, no worries, he will live on and the meat of "original Lall" can be used for whatever purpose best serves society. I.e. shit to grow tomatoes sounds good to me.
    Another one who doesnt get it. My argument isnt that you live on. It's that there is no such thing as "living on". The continuity of the you in one moment to the you in the next is an illusion created by memory, thus it is no better than the continuity of you in one clone to you in the next (who will also have the illusion of continuity).
    Last edited by Lallante; August 9 2017 at 05:15:11 PM.

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    I think the answer is clear: We need to clone Lall then convert the original Lall into organic fertilizer.

    If what Lall says is true, no worries, he will live on and the meat of "original Lall" can be used for whatever purpose best serves society. I.e. shit to grow tomatoes sounds good to me.
    Another one who doesnt get it. My argument isnt that you live on. It's that there is no such thing as "living on". The continuity of the you in one moment to the you in the next is an illusion created by memory, thus it is no better than the continuity of you in one clone to you in the next.
    I thought you said you weren't going to explain it again?
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  15. #415
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Fair point

  16. #416
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    If we cloned all FHCers, and gave each clone a forum account, what would the result be?

    Would you be able to tell the difference?
    Shakespeare.
    meh

  17. #417
    Straight Hustlin's Avatar
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    if continuity is a myth, then explain this discussion going on for 6 pages.

    Check mate philosphizers.

  18. #418
    Duckslayer's Avatar
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    Its not a myth. Its zenos paradox without the common sense applied.
    My Attorney has advised me to remove my new signature until further notice...

  19. #419
    Steph's Avatar
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    Xeno's paradox
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Canadians are usually cooler.
    Thermonuclear Banana Split - A not-really-weekly Eclipse Phase campaign journal

  20. #420
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Hustlin View Post
    if continuity is a myth, then explain this discussion going on for 6 pages.

    Check mate philosphizers.
    Because conceptualizing the non-existence of a little imaginary person that lives inside your head and represents "you" or "your consciousness" is fucking hard.

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