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Thread: The FHC Social, Political & Economic Science Thread: Are aliens socialists?

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    Alistair's Avatar
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    The FHC Social, Political & Economic Science Thread: Are aliens socialists?

    Giving a go to separate the ongoing (and interesting) discussion of preferred economic and political systems (i.e. Social, Political and Economic Science) from the "We All Hate Trump" U.S. Politics Thread.At this point, the Poli-Sci discussion really warrants it's own thread, it's a very good exchange.This will free up the U.S. Politics Thread for it's actual topic, mocking U.S. politics and out horrible broken systems of Government.First Thread title honoring my goof friend Keckers, mods can change down the road to suit where the discussions go (as with many of our threads, lol).
    Last edited by cullnean; August 3 2017 at 11:31:29 AM.


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    I maintain that full automation and/or artificial intelligence enables a post-scarcity technosocialist utopia, and that unlike modern attempts at socialism it might actually work.

    Whether that's a place anyone would want to live or not, well give this a listen.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
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    Why have you put a z in collectivise?
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    I maintain that full automation and/or artificial intelligence enables a post-scarcity technosocialist utopia, and that unlike modern attempts at socialism it might actually work.

    Whether that's a place anyone would want to live or not, well give this a listen.

    Agreed , and thanks for the link.

  5. #5
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    I maintain that full automation and/or artificial intelligence enables a post-scarcity technosocialist utopia, and that unlike modern attempts at socialism it might actually work.

    Whether that's a place anyone would want to live or not, well give this a listen.
    100% agree with this. We all want to live in the Culture.

    It's a pipedream for at least the next few hundred years though.

  6. #6

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    "Post-scarcity" in itself devalues all labour. Since the means to create such a society will lie in the hands of the capitalist class, this will only ever be allowed to create down-pressure on the social mobility of the labourers. Thus, a post-scarcity society will resemble an agglomeration of post-national, hereditary "haves", and a great unwashed masses that have their bare minimum provided, but which will scramble to find fullfillment in the few available opportunities afforded to them for the upper classes' amusement.

    There is no realistic transition from todays societies to an egalitarian post-scarcity society, unless it involves prior total collapse, which global climte change and resource wars may provide.

    Now, while above is written tongue-in-cheek, i am honestly curious how you guys think we could ever get from A to B unless some big, coincidentally grey-bearded, alien reaches from above and uplifts us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilalaunebör View Post
    "Post-scarcity" in itself devalues all labour. Since the means to create such a society will lie in the hands of the capitalist class, this will only ever be allowed to create down-pressure on the social mobility of the labourers. Thus, a post-scarcity society will resemble an agglomeration of post-national, hereditary "haves", and a great unwashed masses that have their bare minimum provided, but which will scramble to find fullfillment in the few available opportunities afforded to them for the upper classes' amusement.

    There is no realistic transition from todays societies to an egalitarian post-scarcity society, unless it involves prior total collapse, which global climte change and resource wars may provide.

    Now, while above is written tongue-in-cheek, i am honestly curious how you guys think we could ever get from A to B unless some big, coincidentally grey-bearded, alien reaches from above and uplifts us.
    Post scarcity implies that things become significantly less difficult to obtain, it does not in any way shape or form depend on what flavor government we have. It demands that water, food, metals, technology, manufacture and distribution becomes a trivial form of acquisition everywhere a human resides while automagically not using forced labor or a subculture of worker bees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    I maintain that full automation and/or artificial intelligence enables a post-scarcity technosocialist utopia, and that unlike modern attempts at socialism it might actually work.

    Whether that's a place anyone would want to live or not, well give this a listen.
    100% agree with this. We all want to live in the Culture.

    It's a pipedream for at least the next few hundred years though.
    Said dream often helps send me off to sleep at night, hence my namesake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    I maintain that full automation and/or artificial intelligence enables a post-scarcity technosocialist utopia, and that unlike modern attempts at socialism it might actually work.

    Whether that's a place anyone would want to live or not, well give this a listen.
    there is no way to a post-scarcity utopia from the status quo, even if we had the means the mechanisms of our economy would actively seek to ration and limit the access to said means in the pursuit of profits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lilalaunebör View Post
    "Post-scarcity" in itself devalues all labour. Since the means to create such a society will lie in the hands of the capitalist class, this will only ever be allowed to create down-pressure on the social mobility of the labourers. Thus, a post-scarcity society will resemble an agglomeration of post-national, hereditary "haves", and a great unwashed masses that have their bare minimum provided, but which will scramble to find fullfillment in the few available opportunities afforded to them for the upper classes' amusement.

    There is no realistic transition from todays societies to an egalitarian post-scarcity society, unless it involves prior total collapse, which global climte change and resource wars may provide.

    Now, while above is written tongue-in-cheek, i am honestly curious how you guys think we could ever get from A to B unless some big, coincidentally grey-bearded, alien reaches from above and uplifts us.
    this, but unironically tbh.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

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    Mallet Head Donor 56k Lagman's Avatar
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    "not using forced labor" doesn't count for much if we're just forcing our AI children into slavery

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    The howling twitterati will argue that robot lives matter

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    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilalaunebör View Post
    "Post-scarcity" in itself devalues all labour. Since the means to create such a society will lie in the hands of the capitalist class, this will only ever be allowed to create down-pressure on the social mobility of the labourers. Thus, a post-scarcity society will resemble an agglomeration of post-national, hereditary "haves", and a great unwashed masses that have their bare minimum provided, but which will scramble to find fullfillment in the few available opportunities afforded to them for the upper classes' amusement.

    There is no realistic transition from todays societies to an egalitarian post-scarcity society, unless it involves prior total collapse, which global climte change and resource wars may provide.

    Now, while above is written tongue-in-cheek, i am honestly curious how you guys think we could ever get from A to B unless some big, coincidentally grey-bearded, alien reaches from above and uplifts us.
    For everyone? Agreed, unlikely short of some kind of major war/revolution. But what's to stop a super-billionaire in your scenario, deciding to colonise a new planet in a far flung solar system using a generation-ship or whatever and setting it up as a socialist utopia because of his/her own principles or desire for legacy or indeed amusement?

    Actually same goes locally. If we end up in an anarcho-capitalist hellworld, what's to stop the economic super heavy weights buying a country and imposing socialism on it for their own amusement?

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    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmychrist View Post
    The howling twitterati will argue that robot lives matter


    #CHTHULU2020
    meh

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmychrist View Post
    The howling twitterati will argue that robot lives matter


    #CHTHULU2020
    The e libertarian party is already a thing m8

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

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    Can we have a better thread title?

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmychrist View Post
    The howling twitterati will argue that robot lives matter


    #CHTHULU2020
    Why vote for the lesser evil?
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Canadians are usually cooler.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilalaunebör View Post
    "Post-scarcity" in itself devalues all labour. Since the means to create such a society will lie in the hands of the capitalist class, this will only ever be allowed to create down-pressure on the social mobility of the labourers. Thus, a post-scarcity society will resemble an agglomeration of post-national, hereditary "haves", and a great unwashed masses that have their bare minimum provided, but which will scramble to find fullfillment in the few available opportunities afforded to them for the upper classes' amusement.

    There is no realistic transition from todays societies to an egalitarian post-scarcity society, unless it involves prior total collapse, which global climte change and resource wars may provide.

    Now, while above is written tongue-in-cheek, i am honestly curious how you guys think we could ever get from A to B unless some big, coincidentally grey-bearded, alien reaches from above and uplifts us.
    For everyone? Agreed, unlikely short of some kind of major war/revolution. But what's to stop a super-billionaire in your scenario, deciding to colonise a new planet in a far flung solar system using a generation-ship or whatever and setting it up as a socialist utopia because of his/her own principles or desire for legacy or indeed amusement?

    Actually same goes locally. If we end up in an anarcho-capitalist hellworld, what's to stop the economic super heavy weights buying a country and imposing socialism on it for their own amusement?
    the spinning bottle of history points to capitalist intervention m8.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    I maintain that full automation and/or artificial intelligence enables a post-scarcity technosocialist utopia, and that unlike modern attempts at socialism it might actually work.

    Whether that's a place anyone would want to live or not, well give this a listen.
    100% agree with this. We all want to live in the Culture.

    It's a pipedream for at least the next few hundred years though.
    It wouldn't be if those smug cunts would get on and Intervene


    I KNOW YOU'RE READING THIS, ASSHOLES.
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    I love Malcanis!

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