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Thread: Zekk Pacus' AMD Ryze(n) hardware thread, July 2017

  1. #2481
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    10600K is really good value if you're mainly gaming. I'm seriously considering it for my new setup instead of Zen3 because of their pricing. Need to see real tests of 5600X and real prices first, because I seriously doubt it will be available for MSRP.
    I think she might have gone with an i8. I have not asked what GPU she bought, as I was too shell shocked.

    Her boyfriend works for a (very) large electronic store chain. Apparently we are conspiring against her now for telling her how wrong she was about her cpu choice.

    Tapapapatalk
    I asked about the GPU.

    3080.

    At least she got that right.
    nevar forget

  2. #2482
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    I asked about the GPU.

    3080.

    At least she got that right.
    Don't mind me, just saving this for later...
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  3. #2483
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Just downloaded the F60c BIOS for my X470 motherboard. F60 is supposedly the version that enabled Zen3 for the B450s, but this one just says "Enhanced CPU support" and nothing else.

    https://www.gigabyte.com/uk/Motherbo...upport-dl-bios
    Last edited by Malcanis; November 2 2020 at 05:10:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  4. #2484
    Super Moderator DonorGlobal Moderator whispous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Just downloaded the F60c BIOS for my X470 motherboard. F60 is supposedly the version that enabled Zen3 for the B450s, but this one just says "Enhanced CPU support" and nothing else.

    https://www.gigabyte.com/uk/Motherbo...upport-dl-bios
    Correct me if i'm wrong, but I was under the impression that X4 board BIOS updated for Zen 3 would REMOVE support for 1 and 2, meaning you will not be able to boot from "old" chips.

  5. #2485

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    Quote Originally Posted by whispous View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Just downloaded the F60c BIOS for my X470 motherboard. F60 is supposedly the version that enabled Zen3 for the B450s, but this one just says "Enhanced CPU support" and nothing else.

    https://www.gigabyte.com/uk/Motherbo...upport-dl-bios
    Correct me if i'm wrong, but I was under the impression that X4 board BIOS updated for Zen 3 would REMOVE support for 1 and 2, meaning you will not be able to boot from "old" chips.
    I think that was meant to be for the even older boards, not the 470 and 450? That socket is really old now and im frankly impressed they managed to run those old boards so long.

  6. #2486

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by whispous View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Just downloaded the F60c BIOS for my X470 motherboard. F60 is supposedly the version that enabled Zen3 for the B450s, but this one just says "Enhanced CPU support" and nothing else.

    https://www.gigabyte.com/uk/Motherbo...upport-dl-bios
    Correct me if i'm wrong, but I was under the impression that X4 board BIOS updated for Zen 3 would REMOVE support for 1 and 2, meaning you will not be able to boot from "old" chips.
    I think that was meant to be for the even older boards, not the 470 and 450? That socket is really old now and im frankly impressed they managed to run those old boards so long.
    Honestly the info on which cpus that will be dropped isn't out there yet. You have loads more cpus than Ryzens crammed into that bios. You have Bristol ridge A series chips which is an APU based on the Excavator architecture which takes up a fair number of valuable slots for instance, as well as X4- series cpus which apparantly have Phenom cores(!!). Add in a bunch of 2 Core Ryzen based Athlons and you have a lot of cpu's to drop support for.

    But yeah, don't flash your BIOS before having the new cpu in hand seems like the obvious advice.


    I'd say it's a safe bet that support will remain for 3000 series Zen 2 Ryzens and I hope they'll add support for 4000 series APU's which currently won't run on x470 and b450 boards.
    Last edited by Spartan Dax; November 2 2020 at 09:34:51 PM.

  7. #2487
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Some boards have "flashback" which lets you BIOS flash using USB mass storage device without needing a CPU installed. Kinda disturbing, but useful here.

    I'm not sure how tricky you can be with Dual BIOS boards, as Gigabyte often have, in theory you could flash one for the Zen3 using an earlier CPU, but I'm not certain you can replace only the 2nd/backup one, or only the main one if the CPU won't immediately reboot sucessfully using it, and I don't think there's a simple toggle of which is being used.
    Last edited by Daneel Trevize; November 2 2020 at 11:01:39 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  8. #2488
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    I believe the X4 series AM4 compatible CPUs are just regular A-series APUs with excavator cores without a (functioning) GPU.

    There were the Phenom X4s though, but they were for the AM3 socket.
      Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    But islamism IS a product of class warfare. Rich white countries come into developing brown dictatorships, wreck the leadership, infrastructure and economy and then act all surprised that religious fanaticism is on the rise.
    Also:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenta View Post
    walrus isnt a bad poster.
    Quote Originally Posted by cullnean View Post
    also i like walrus.
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    Yer a hoot

  9. #2489
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    Only B440's that lose previous compatibilities when upgrading.
    Of course there are several cards with dual bios's.
    Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???

  10. #2490
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whispous View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Just downloaded the F60c BIOS for my X470 motherboard. F60 is supposedly the version that enabled Zen3 for the B450s, but this one just says "Enhanced CPU support" and nothing else.

    https://www.gigabyte.com/uk/Motherbo...upport-dl-bios
    Correct me if i'm wrong, but I was under the impression that X4 board BIOS updated for Zen 3 would REMOVE support for 1 and 2, meaning you will not be able to boot from "old" chips.
    That was my understanding also. I said "downloaded" not "upgraded to". I'm not doing a god dambed thing to my BIOS (Currently on F51 IIRC) until I have a Zen3 CPU in my actual physical possession. I wanted to download it quick in case AMD make them pull it back like they did with the PCIE-4 BIOSs.

    I might not update it anyway if I decide to give the motherboard & Zen+ CPU to #1 Nephew, but I'm still kind of undecided about that one

    tbh I'm more concerned with the video card. I'm not sure I have the emotional energy to spare to engage in two seperate scrambles for scarce newly launched hardware, and I want the video card more. That 6800XT calls to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  11. #2491
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by whispous View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Just downloaded the F60c BIOS for my X470 motherboard. F60 is supposedly the version that enabled Zen3 for the B450s, but this one just says "Enhanced CPU support" and nothing else.

    https://www.gigabyte.com/uk/Motherbo...upport-dl-bios
    Correct me if i'm wrong, but I was under the impression that X4 board BIOS updated for Zen 3 would REMOVE support for 1 and 2, meaning you will not be able to boot from "old" chips.
    I think that was meant to be for the even older boards, not the 470 and 450? That socket is really old now and im frankly impressed they managed to run those old boards so long.
    No, he's right. AMD said it would be a one way trip, and would remove backward compatibility for Zen/Zen+ and I think even Zen 2 for 400-series boards. The 300-series boards won't get Zen3 support at all. The 500 series get Zen 2 + Zen 3 compatibility as a normal update.

    Shit's complicated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  12. #2492
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  13. #2493

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by whispous View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Just downloaded the F60c BIOS for my X470 motherboard. F60 is supposedly the version that enabled Zen3 for the B450s, but this one just says "Enhanced CPU support" and nothing else.

    https://www.gigabyte.com/uk/Motherbo...upport-dl-bios
    Correct me if i'm wrong, but I was under the impression that X4 board BIOS updated for Zen 3 would REMOVE support for 1 and 2, meaning you will not be able to boot from "old" chips.
    I think that was meant to be for the even older boards, not the 470 and 450? That socket is really old now and im frankly impressed they managed to run those old boards so long.
    No, he's right. AMD said it would be a one way trip, and would remove backward compatibility for Zen/Zen+ and I think even Zen 2 for 400-series boards. The 300-series boards won't get Zen3 support at all. The 500 series get Zen 2 + Zen 3 compatibility as a normal update.

    Shit's complicated.
    I distinctly remember there being a split somewhere and it also being somewhat down to the producer but fuck knows until it starts anyway and how long it will take, some have an abysmal record. You're prolly right.

  14. #2494
    rufuske's Avatar
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    It's because of size limitation, 400-series can't fit routines for both Zen 2 and 3 and when AMD realized it and said they won't support them, internet collectively lost their shit. So now after backtracking, flashing for those will be one way trip. There may be some exception if by some chance that particular model can support larger rom, but make sure to verify it. 500 series has bigger modules and can fit both.

  15. #2495

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    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    It's because of size limitation, 400-series can't fit routines for both Zen 2 and 3 and when AMD realized it and said they won't support them, internet collectively lost their shit. So now after backtracking, flashing for those will be one way trip. There may be some exception if by some chance that particular model can support larger rom, but make sure to verify it. 500 series has bigger modules and can fit both.
    Yeah, it also depends on the producer individually tho and the components they used so its hard to give generalized answers either.

    Gonna be a bit of a mess i expect either way, but to be entirely expected when running a socket for so long.

  16. #2496
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    It's because of size limitation, 400-series can't fit routines for both Zen 2 and 3 and when AMD realized it and said they won't support them, internet collectively lost their shit. So now after backtracking, flashing for those will be one way trip. There may be some exception if by some chance that particular model can support larger rom, but make sure to verify it. 500 series has bigger modules and can fit both.
    That was the bullshit excuse AMD gave, but it's provably bullshit because there are 500-series boards with 16MB BIOS who are somehow just fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  17. #2497
    rufuske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    It's because of size limitation, 400-series can't fit routines for both Zen 2 and 3 and when AMD realized it and said they won't support them, internet collectively lost their shit. So now after backtracking, flashing for those will be one way trip. There may be some exception if by some chance that particular model can support larger rom, but make sure to verify it. 500 series has bigger modules and can fit both.
    That was the bullshit excuse AMD gave, but it's provably bullshit because there are 500-series boards with 16MB BIOS who are somehow just fine.
    New chipset might not need those extra bits of code and was designed with compatibility in mind in the first place?

  18. #2498

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    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    It's because of size limitation, 400-series can't fit routines for both Zen 2 and 3 and when AMD realized it and said they won't support them, internet collectively lost their shit. So now after backtracking, flashing for those will be one way trip. There may be some exception if by some chance that particular model can support larger rom, but make sure to verify it. 500 series has bigger modules and can fit both.
    That was the bullshit excuse AMD gave, but it's provably bullshit because there are 500-series boards with 16MB BIOS who are somehow just fine.
    New chipset might not need those extra bits of code and was designed with compatibility in mind in the first place?
    No it has nothing to do with the 500 series chipsets as some boards have already axed support for a lot of older cpus such as the Ryzen APUs and the A10's as well as the 1000 and 2000 series Ryzens whereas other boards have a longer compatibility list. It's strictly a bios size thing and/or manufacturer prioritization.

    The fact is that a Ryzen cpu doesn't need a chipset to begin with as it's already a full fledged SOC. The chipset just adds more stuffs.

    (Comparison made between Asus x570 Prime and b550M)
    Last edited by Spartan Dax; November 3 2020 at 08:07:01 PM.

  19. #2499
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    If I had to guess then I'd say that it's because AMD wanted to really play on this Smart Access thing that kinda depends on the bandwidth of PCIE4.

    Anyway it's moot now.

    NAAF reckons that Zen3 supply is going to be very limited this year (See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrT647oFGNs )

    I'm too old to stay up until midnight F5ing, so I might end up just pushing the whole PC upgrade thing back until next year when things calm the fuck down.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  20. #2500
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    People managed to place pre-orders for Amazon UK, and have shipping & delivery confirmations for this week.

    Fundamentally, it's the lack of pre-order support that caused Nvidia all the trouble, kept people being noisy headless chickens. I wouldn't paint AMD's CPUs with the same brush just yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

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