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Thread: Zekk Pacus' AMD Ryze(n) hardware thread, July 2017

  1. #41
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    I answered the question on Discord, but for anyone else who cares:

    It's a toss-up. Stellaris is coded like shit so runs like shit lategame no matter what system, TW:WH scales with many cores provided there's no other bottleneck in the system, Civ VI doesn't really appear to scale beyond a quad core.

    My general recommendation is still a faster quad core over a slower many core, but the price/performance proposition of the Ryzen CPUs is really hard to beat - you get more system for your dosh.

    That said, Intel's new hexcore mainstream CPUs launch in a few weeks - right now I'd wait, as if nothing else they'll push prices down on the older gear.
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  2. #42
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    Yep, agree. We're in a weird no-man's land right now where most games don't benefit from more than 4 cores, but an increasing number do. And those ones tend to benefit a lot from extra cores.

    Most of AMD's and Intel's non-budget processors are pretty good atm. I'd hesitate to build a gaming rig (especially for strategy games) around 4C/4T i5, but anything above that should be fine.

  3. #43
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    I answered the question on Discord, but for anyone else who cares:

    It's a toss-up. Stellaris is coded like shit so runs like shit lategame no matter what system, TW:WH scales with many cores provided there's no other bottleneck in the system, Civ VI doesn't really appear to scale beyond a quad core.

    My general recommendation is still a faster quad core over a slower many core, but the price/performance proposition of the Ryzen CPUs is really hard to beat - you get more system for your dosh.

    That said, Intel's new hexcore mainstream CPUs launch in a few weeks - right now I'd wait, as if nothing else they'll push prices down on the older gear.
    U wot

    $549-999 for Ryzen depending on model vs $117 to $360 for Intel 8G

    Ryzen uses almost 2x the wattage, and cost roughly double, for worse performance

    It's not even close

  4. #44
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    I'm trying to work out if anything in your post is even vaguely accurate, but I can't see anything.

    As of today Ryzen prices on Newegg range from $109 for the R3 1200 to $399 for the 1800X. Intel 8th gen Coffee Lake prices are $314-379 for the whole two chips listed, but that's academic because you can't actually buy one as Intel seems to have only made about 6 of each chip.

    Double power consumption? I'll take the figures produced by people who've actually tested the chips over your word:


    And power figures don't tell the whole story here. Ryzens are nice and easy to cool, even the stock air cooler permits some OCing. The 8700K is reportedly reaching 90C at stock clocks, even using an AIO water cooler. Sustained overclocking seems to require delidding or a custom high-end water loop.

    Performance is a wash. Ryzen wins more often than not on threaded productivity workloads, Coffee Lake mostly wins in gaming.

    Right now Coffee Lake is an irrelevance. There are none to be had at anything like sensible prices, and from what I hear that situation is unlikely to improve much before AMD launches Ryzen+ in January.

  5. #45
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    I answered the question on Discord, but for anyone else who cares:

    It's a toss-up. Stellaris is coded like shit so runs like shit lategame no matter what system, TW:WH scales with many cores provided there's no other bottleneck in the system, Civ VI doesn't really appear to scale beyond a quad core.

    My general recommendation is still a faster quad core over a slower many core, but the price/performance proposition of the Ryzen CPUs is really hard to beat - you get more system for your dosh.

    That said, Intel's new hexcore mainstream CPUs launch in a few weeks - right now I'd wait, as if nothing else they'll push prices down on the older gear.
    U wot

    $549-999 for Ryzen depending on model vs $117 to $360 for Intel 8G

    Ryzen uses almost 2x the wattage, and cost roughly double, for worse performance

    It's not even close
    You're looking at Threadripper you dingus
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  6. #46
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bombcrater View Post
    Coffee Lake is an irrelevance.
    Coffee Lake is the final proof that Intel had a better CPU design ready to go (you can't design such changes in 6months), and could sell CPUs at lower prices, but sat on that and instead fucked consumers while enjoying near-monopoly. And yet people still defend them.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  7. #47
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    Of course they did. Coffee Lake was always supposed to launch next year, they just brought it forward to compete with Ryzen.

    That said there's no way they just had a mainstream 6c part developed and just sat on it until they needed it - R&D isn't something they can do "just in case".
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  8. #48
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    I answered the question on Discord, but for anyone else who cares:

    It's a toss-up. Stellaris is coded like shit so runs like shit lategame no matter what system, TW:WH scales with many cores provided there's no other bottleneck in the system, Civ VI doesn't really appear to scale beyond a quad core.

    My general recommendation is still a faster quad core over a slower many core, but the price/performance proposition of the Ryzen CPUs is really hard to beat - you get more system for your dosh.

    That said, Intel's new hexcore mainstream CPUs launch in a few weeks - right now I'd wait, as if nothing else they'll push prices down on the older gear.
    U wot

    $549-999 for Ryzen depending on model vs $117 to $360 for Intel 8G

    Ryzen uses almost 2x the wattage, and cost roughly double, for worse performance

    It's not even close
    You're looking at Threadripper you dingus
    ayymd fanboys at work again

  9. #49
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    You're looking at the wrong CPUs you fucknugget

    Threadripper is the high core count parts designed for productivity, they compete with Intel's $1000+ extreme editions, which is why they use more power than Intel's quad core desktop parts

    Spoiler alert: The newest Intel extreme edition is capable of drawing 800 watts BY ITSELF when overclocked
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  10. #50
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    You're looking at the wrong CPUs you fucknugget

    Threadripper is the high core count parts designed for productivity, they compete with Intel's $1000+ extreme editions, which is why they use more power than Intel's quad core desktop parts

    Spoiler alert: The newest Intel extreme edition is capable of drawing 800 watts BY ITSELF when overclocked
    (I'm going to blame Omega Supreme because he posted what I posted in Discord and I copypasted it blindly hoping it would trigger somebody)

  11. #51
    Specially Pegged Donor Overspark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    You're looking at the wrong CPUs you fucknugget

    Threadripper is the high core count parts designed for productivity, they compete with Intel's $1000+ extreme editions, which is why they use more power than Intel's quad core desktop parts

    Spoiler alert: The newest Intel extreme edition is capable of drawing 800 watts BY ITSELF when overclocked
    (I'm going to blame Omega Supreme because he posted what I posted in Discord and I copypasted it blindly hoping it would trigger somebody)
    I unignore that little shit for one day and this happens... back on the ignore list you go!

  12. #52
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overspark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    You're looking at the wrong CPUs you fucknugget

    Threadripper is the high core count parts designed for productivity, they compete with Intel's $1000+ extreme editions, which is why they use more power than Intel's quad core desktop parts

    Spoiler alert: The newest Intel extreme edition is capable of drawing 800 watts BY ITSELF when overclocked
    (I'm going to blame Omega Supreme because he posted what I posted in Discord and I copypasted it blindly hoping it would trigger somebody)
    I unignore that little shit for one day and this happens... back on the ignore list you go!
    Oh no the horror how will I survive

  13. #53
    Super Baderator DonorGlobal Moderator cullnean's Avatar
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    Only warning, stop it.

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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    Coffee Lake is the final proof that Intel had a better CPU design ready to go (you can't design such changes in 6months), and could sell CPUs at lower prices, but sat on that and instead fucked consumers while enjoying near-monopoly. And yet people still defend them.
    Intel always fucks their customers when they have half a chance to get away with it. I have great admiration for Intel's engineers, in the last 20 years no other processor company other than occasionally AMD has managed to get anywhere close to them. But their management pretty much defines greed. They push prices right to the limit (and in the case of Xeons, beyond) and take product segmentation to an insane degree.

    They could have pushed out 6 or 8 core mainstream i5s and i7s at any point in the last 7 generations, the dies always existed and were restricted for use as Xeons. That's what would have happened to Coffee Lack if not for AMD.
    A lot of people forget that Intel actually did 6C/12T i7s way back with the first gen i7-980X parts, using Xeon dies. Those chips completely kicked arse, but greed pushed Intel back to 4 cores with Sandy Bridge.

    Small semi-relevant anecdote; I got hold of an X58 motherboard for free last week and used it to 'upgrade' my second PC from a 2500K+H77 mobo to a 6C/12T Xeon X5660 (which uses the same die as the first gen i7-980X) that I grabbed from Ebay for less than 40 quid. The Xeon overclocks easily to 4.5GHz and turns in better scores in quite a few threaded apps than a 7700K. Using 9-year old first gen cores...

  15. #55
    Donor Aea's Avatar
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    Don’t worry your little heart, the free market will surely take care of this.


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  16. #56
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    [QUOTE=Bombcrater;1729670]
    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    A lot of people forget that Intel actually did 6C/12T i7s way back with the first gen i7-980X parts, using Xeon dies. Those chips completely kicked arse, but greed pushed Intel back to 4 cores with Sandy Bridge.

    Small semi-relevant anecdote; I got hold of an X58 motherboard for free last week and used it to 'upgrade' my second PC from a 2500K+H77 mobo to a 6C/12T Xeon X5660 (which uses the same die as the first gen i7-980X) that I grabbed from Ebay for less than 40 quid. The Xeon overclocks easily to 4.5GHz and turns in better scores in quite a few threaded apps than a 7700K. Using 9-year old first gen cores...
    So I can pop out my current I7 920 and replace it with a X5660 for a base clock increase of 133Mhz (+OC) and and extra 2 cores? for £25?

    Only need an affordable upgrade to my 970GTX then and I am set for another 2 years.

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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tailn View Post
    So I can pop out my current I7 920 and replace it with a X5660 for a base clock increase of 133Mhz (+OC) and and extra 2 cores? for £25?
    Provided your board supports it, yes. Most of them do, although the manufacturers generally don't list Xeons on their CPU compatibility chart so it takes a bit of googling to find if it'll work.

  18. #58
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    Mmm, need some X58 in my collection :3

    Also an 980X.
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