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Thread: Zekk Pacus' AMD Ryze(n) hardware thread, July 2017

  1. #681
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Ryzen is still a very good deal if you're building a midrange gaming PC

  2. #682
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    I thought we were talking data centres, because otherwise AMD iirc has the previous and current console generations sown up 100% their CPUs...
    Not to mention ARM powering the rest of the world's devices.

    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    everything is commoditised and virtualised
    ...
    the overwhelming majority of workloads are built for machine parallelism, not cpu parallelism.
    ...so you can hugely leverage these many core CPUs to run many virtual machines, no? They're really well suited for what you claim people are designing for.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  3. #683
    Keckers's Avatar
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    They're well suited for anyone starting now. For people currently using intel it's not worth the investment/hassle to make a complete switch.
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  4. #684
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    AMD on Tuesday announced availability of its processors on Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud (EC2). AMD EPYC-based systems will be used as web and application servers, backend servers for enterprise applications, as well as for test/development environments. The announcement is very important for AMD because Amazon Web Services is one of the world’s top adopters of servers.
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/13553...n-web-services
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  5. #685
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    We have recently (as in they turned up this week) bought some vsan ready nodes. 6 months ago when we started this project I made some serious attempts to get epyc chips. Turns out it's all but impossible to actually buy them at a price even close to what they are worth. I mean the products exist, but no one actually stocks them so it's all special order with massive lead times and huge shipping overhead. Much to my disappointment Intel was just easier.

    (vsan ready nodes are pretty freaking awesome though and this isn't my first vsan)
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  6. #686

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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Ryzen is still a very good deal if you're building a midrange gaming PC
    Absolutely. But as we've covered before, this is a niche of a niche of a niche now. In terms of business success, the CPU market is the datacentre market. We're pretty much at that point with GPUs as well, where NVidia similarly dominate. You could also reasonably argue that "the datacentre market" is just the 3 major cloud vendors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    ...so you can hugely leverage these many core CPUs to run many virtual machines, no?
    Not really, no. The major constraint is throughput. Provisioning more VMs onto fewer hosts would make this worse. AWS's compute design is intentionally designed to be very sparse - think single socket, low core count, single slot blades. They could just as easily have multi-socket, multi-hundred-core monstrosities in every machine, but they don't, because we're not CPU bound.

    This could be a good thing in on-premises private clouds, where the primary constraint is space, but again no one wants to split their datacentre between chip techs.

    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    AMD on Tuesday announced availability of its processors on Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud (EC2). AMD EPYC-based systems will be used as web and application servers, backend servers for enterprise applications, as well as for test/development environments. The announcement is very important for AMD because Amazon Web Services is one of the world’s top adopters of servers.
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/13553...n-web-services
    Until it's available in multiple regions per geo and all the relevant AZs (and at a much higher instance limit than 20....) this is just a tech demo.
    Last edited by elmicker; November 8 2018 at 01:45:57 PM.

  7. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    My points are thus:
    1) No one is buying or has bought AMD CPUs for 5+ years. Intel's market dominance is total
    2) No one wants to run a split-tech datacentre
    3) No one really wants to run any datacentre
    4) Even people still being forced to run datacentres no longer give a shit about nuts-and-bolts kit; everything is commoditised and virtualised

    The only way AMD are going to make headway into the business market (i.e. the only market that's left) is by delivering a product so more substantially efficient that it warrants a near-total re-platforming or a multi billion dollar class investment by the cloud vendors. The problem on the cloud front is that the overwhelming majority of workloads are built for machine parallelism, not cpu parallelism.
    They were at basically zero data centre sales two years ago. However, amazon just did a deal to run on their chips so they are starting to gain a bit of traction. Epic Rome just announced too and looks an easy win for performance per watt vs anything Intel has currently. Inertia in the data centre market is always greater than consumer parts and yeah, amd can't just produce the best chips, they need to scale up their support network. Looks good for them though, and looks much better for customers now than 4 years ago.

    I mean 1 percent of a market is tiny, but the data centre market is exploding with growth so I'm sure they'll pick up some percentages
    Last edited by Duckslayer; November 8 2018 at 02:56:50 PM.

  8. #688

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    My worry would be that Intel won't try and compete, they'll just pull an Intel and knock 20% off their prices for volume customers, take the hit and leave AMD no way back into the market. What are they going to do, complain to the EC and wait five years for some antitrust sanctions?

  9. #689

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    My worry would be that Intel won't try and compete, they'll just pull an Intel and knock 20% off their prices for volume customers, take the hit and leave AMD no way back into the market. What are they going to do, complain to the EC and wait five years for some antitrust sanctions?
    It's not the workstation and PC market of the 90's anymore. The datacenter market is expected to double in the next five years, there is room for AMD. Especially since Intel already has problems with manufacturing enough of their large server chips. ATM they're eating into their desktop parts in order to free up capacity for making their larger chips.

    AMD's chiplet designs leave them in a good place to to use every chip in whichever way they like.

    Just as a comparison, Intels 28 core is larger than 700 mm2. AMD's Rome chiplet is ~70 mm2.

    But as Elmicker pointed out, Intels mind share is vast. Success isn't guaranteed but there is room in the market.

  10. #690
    Cosmin's Avatar
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    It's a bit sad the PC market is now a niche. Thing is from what I've observed over the years the prices for midrange stuff have only been going up and the wages haven't really caught up. I mean you can afford a decent gaming PC/workstation if you work a good job, but generally that's not happening. Vast majority of people according to the Steam Hardware Survey are rocking integrated graphics, ancient NVIDIA cards and what not. Top share is the 1060 - I am quasi astonished the RX580 is so low compared to it, ratio is almost 30:1 1060 to RX580, although the RX580 has a better price point and slightly better performance.


    Console market was nice when you were able to sell your games after you've completed them and get top bux for it but now you have to create an accound and authenticate your copy so the pre-owned game market is going down; overall the money put in this hobby are becoming gone never to come back regardless if you're rocking a console or a PC.

    Hopefully GOG.com is getting bigger, but the damage is done. Digital distribution has basically turned a hobby that you could recover some of the investment from into a black hole for the wallet.



    Please excuse my slight offtopic.
    Guns make the news, science doesn't.

  11. #691
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    PC gaming market has never been anything but a niche, it's currently the largest it's ever been

  12. #692

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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    PC gaming market has never been anything but a niche, it's currently the largest it's ever been
    This. It's been steadily growing and there's still a shitton of money in it, it just happens to be small compared so shit like the corporate, industrial etc. systems market for obvious reasons.

  13. #693
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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  14. #694
    Cosmin's Avatar
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    Blue Yeti Blackout Edition + Fallout 76 for PC - $99.99
    Top lulz.
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  15. #695
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    While niche, the pc gaming market is still growing. There's plenty of room for two gpu makers to release a new chip every year or so

    Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

  16. #696

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    Need advice on upgrades minus GPU.

    Budget: $1000-1500
    Use case: I game @ 3440x1440, and do a fair bit of editing in Adobe Premier Pro. Gaming-wise I don't feel very bottle-necked, but encoding is shitty poo-poo slow.
    Have today: i5-2700, 16gb DDR and a 1080 Ti. Air-cooled. 700W PSU.
    Need: CPU, cooling, NVMe-disc, possibly a tower, PSU, RAM and a motherboard.

    I don't feel like throwing insane amounts of money at a 2080 Ti, and the 2080 doesn't really feel like an upgrade worth the money over my current GPU.

    Been looking at:
    - i7-8700K or a i7-9700K, possibly i9-9900K or maybe even a i7-8086K. Considering going for a i5 instead, but would an i7 be worth it for video-stuff?
    - Samsung 970 EVO 1TB m.2
    - Something something 3200 RAM, either 16 gb or possibly 32 gb (preferrably 16x2 in that case)
    - Apparantly (?) the CPUs I'm looking at get fairly hot, so watercooling (AIO) is recommended? Been looking at Corsair Hydro H115i Pro.
    - I'd like a silent ATX+ or thereabouts case; I'd rather not have tons of RBG (just advertises to my wife that I've upgraded..)

    Advice/input/experiences?

  17. #697
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheps View Post
    Need advice on upgrades minus GPU.

    Budget: $1000-1500
    Use case: I game @ 3440x1440, and do a fair bit of editing in Adobe Premier Pro. Gaming-wise I don't feel very bottle-necked, but encoding is shitty poo-poo slow.
    Have today: i5-2700, 16gb DDR and a 1080 Ti. Air-cooled. 700W PSU.
    Need: CPU, cooling, NVMe-disc, possibly a tower, PSU, RAM and a motherboard.

    I don't feel like throwing insane amounts of money at a 2080 Ti, and the 2080 doesn't really feel like an upgrade worth the money over my current GPU.

    Been looking at:
    - i7-8700K or a i7-9700K, possibly i9-9900K or maybe even a i7-8086K. Considering going for a i5 instead, but would an i7 be worth it for video-stuff?
    - Samsung 970 EVO 1TB m.2
    - Something something 3200 RAM, either 16 gb or possibly 32 gb (preferrably 16x2 in that case)
    - Apparantly (?) the CPUs I'm looking at get fairly hot, so watercooling (AIO) is recommended? Been looking at Corsair Hydro H115i Pro.
    - I'd like a silent ATX+ or thereabouts case; I'd rather not have tons of RBG (just advertises to my wife that I've upgraded..)

    Advice/input/experiences?
    First off, there is no i5-2700. Did you mean i5-2500 or i7-2700K?

    - The absolute cheapest upgrade you can do is if I send you one of my spare i5-3570 chips. You'll get PCI-E 3.0, Intel Quick Sync Video v2, and a couple other things. If you want the absolute best for your current system, look for an i7-3770K. I picked up mine for $125 a while back, it's probably even cheaper now.
    - I would not suggest getting an i9-9900K. If you need that level of performance, start looking at Ryzen 7 or Threadripper. The 8086K was a special edition limited to 50,000 units.
    - I currently have a i7-8700 (non-K) and it honestly doesn't feel like it's leaps and bounds ahead of my i3-8100. But I don't do a bunch of multi-threaded tasks, so YMMV.
    - AIO is a good idea, and you've picked a 2-fan version, so that's good for higher-end CPUs.
    - The Samsung 970 EVO isn't noticeably faster than a 960, which is already blazing fast.
    - What's your current storage solution? Hard drive or SSD?
    - What formats are you encoding?
    - If you want a silent case, consider Fractal Design, as many models (like my Define Nano S) have built-in sound dampening material. Also look at getting Noctua fans.
    Last edited by Nordstern; November 11 2018 at 07:55:22 PM.
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  18. #698
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    - The Samsung 970 EVO isn't noticeably faster than a 960, which is already blazing fast.
    There's not much of a price delta though. In fact on Amazon, the 970 is rather cheaper.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  19. #699

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    I've never worked with Adobe Premier so I don't what settings or workloads you use. That said, Adobe recently updated their support for Intel cpu's integrated graphics to help with the workload which massively benefitted performace. But it depends on what you do, in some use cases you'd be better off with a Ryzen 7. I suggest you double check what's best for you.

    As to regarding case. Fractal Design R6, it's a silence focused case with good enough cooling. Pair that with a Noctua DH-15 cpu cooler and you will never have to worry about hot cpu's. No RGB shenanigans either.

  20. #700
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    - The Samsung 970 EVO isn't noticeably faster than a 960, which is already blazing fast.
    There's not much of a price delta though. In fact on Amazon, the 970 is rather cheaper.
    Speaking of the 970, one of the tidbits I heard was that the throughput of the 970 PRO is almost at the limit of the PCIe x4 interface. Within a generation or two, we'll be at the max.

    edit: To explain:

    Bandwidth of 1 PCIe 3.0 lane: 985 MB/s
    Bandwidth of four lanes: 3.94 GB/s
    Sequential read performance of fastest NVMe devices on the market: 3.6 GB/s

    So unless manufacturers move up to PCIe 4.0/5.0, we will soon be bottlenecked.
    Last edited by Nordstern; November 12 2018 at 01:46:39 AM.
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