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Thread: Zekk Pacus' AMD Ryze(n) hardware thread, July 2017

  1. #3421
    Mashie Saldana's Avatar
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    I have no interest in ripping out the cat 5e structured cabling in the house to replace with cat 6.

  2. #3422
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    If you're not working with huge video files, is there really a need to have more than 1 Gbps Ethernet?
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
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    WTF I hate white people now...
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  3. #3423
    Mashie Saldana's Avatar
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    Needed, no not really, but I have to throttle my Linux ISO torrent uploads whenever I watch a movie hosted on this computer as the 1 Gbps link between it and the switch the router is connected to is getting fully utilised on this 900/900 broadband, everyone loves Linux apparently.

  4. #3424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
    I have no interest in ripping out the cat 5e structured cabling in the house to replace with cat 6 fiber optics.
    FTFY.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    If you're not working with huge video files, is there really a need to have more than 1 Gbps Ethernet?
    I just wrote above, I'll write it again, it's latency. Difference between 1GBe and 10GBe is night and day.

    Edit: it also allows you to take full advantage of RAIDZ2/RAID6 setups which can read/write much faster than the network can withstand. Personally I don't really care my server can do stuff super quickly then throttle everything whilst serving me at 80-90MBps.
    Last edited by Cosmin; April 28 2022 at 02:17:34 PM.

  5. #3425
    Mashie Saldana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
    I have no interest in ripping out the cat 5e structured cabling in the house to replace with cat 6 fiber optics.
    FTFY.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    If you're not working with huge video files, is there really a need to have more than 1 Gbps Ethernet?
    I just wrote above, I'll write it again, it's latency. Difference between 1GBe and 10GBe is night and day.

    Edit: it also allows you to take full advantage of RAIDZ2/RAID6 setups which can read/write much faster than the network can withstand. Personally I don't really care my server can do stuff super quickly then throttle everything whilst serving me at 80-90MBps.
    I'd rather not going up in the loft space after we had a foot of paper pulp insulation blown up there. But sure if 2.5G proves to be too slow in a far distant future then it can be done.

    If you noticed a latency difference between 1G and 10G something must have been seriously broken with your 1G gear.

  6. #3426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
    If you noticed a latency difference between 1G and 10G something must have been seriously broken with your 1G gear.
    Again, this is considering using remote desktop and VNC software to VMs. 1G latency is not bad, but 10G is literally like working locally. I can't stress this enough and I'm not the only one who noticed this (have friends who migrated to 10G and had the exact same experience).

    Again, we're not talking SSH or remote console, but actually working with a keyboard and a mouse with a computer in a desktop environment in the same LAN. Honestly, try it for yourself if you have the means/opportunity to do so.

  7. #3427
    GeromeDoutrande's Avatar
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    I mean you could simply measure latency to compare

  8. #3428
    Mashie Saldana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
    If you noticed a latency difference between 1G and 10G something must have been seriously broken with your 1G gear.
    Again, this is considering using remote desktop and VNC software to VMs. 1G latency is not bad, but 10G is literally like working locally. I can't stress this enough and I'm not the only one who noticed this (have friends who migrated to 10G and had the exact same experience).

    Again, we're not talking SSH or remote console, but actually working with a keyboard and a mouse with a computer in a desktop environment in the same LAN. Honestly, try it for yourself if you have the means/opportunity to do so.
    For the first 18 months of lockdown I was running Citrix RDP to my desktop in the office from home (about 2 miles away) although the Citrix cluster I had to connect via was probably a good 100 miles away. No issues, I was on 500/500 broadband at the time.

    I also run VNC regularly to our test lab in the north about 150 miles away, again no latency to talk about.

  9. #3429
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeromeDoutrande View Post
    I mean you could simply measure latency to compare
    Can do as I already have a connection that is 10GBe and also a 1GBe between the two. How to do it more efficiently and what not, that I don't know. So if you can point me in the right direction I will run the tests and post the results



    Quote Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
    If you noticed a latency difference between 1G and 10G something must have been seriously broken with your 1G gear.
    Again, this is considering using remote desktop and VNC software to VMs. 1G latency is not bad, but 10G is literally like working locally. I can't stress this enough and I'm not the only one who noticed this (have friends who migrated to 10G and had the exact same experience).

    Again, we're not talking SSH or remote console, but actually working with a keyboard and a mouse with a computer in a desktop environment in the same LAN. Honestly, try it for yourself if you have the means/opportunity to do so.
    For the first 18 months of lockdown I was running Citrix RDP to my desktop in the office from home (about 2 miles away) although the Citrix cluster I had to connect via was probably a good 100 miles away. No issues, I was on 500/500 broadband at the time.

    I also run VNC regularly to our test lab in the north about 150 miles away, again no latency to talk about.

    Right, you have no latency on working remote desktop through a half gigabit connection.

    See, the best part of actually knowing something is experiencing it instead of declaring "this is the pinnacle of remoting into machines" without knowing there is something even better around the corner.

    I can definitely call your experience out because I worked in UK hospitals employing Citrix remote desktop and that experience was ok, but not what 10GBe offers (and it was local over 1GBe).

  10. #3430

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    I hear you get even better latency if you use special gold plated RJ45 plugs too.

  11. #3431
    Mashie Saldana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    Right, you have no latency on working remote desktop through a half gigabit connection.

    See, the best part of actually knowing something is experiencing it instead of declaring "this is the pinnacle of remoting into machines" without knowing there is something even better around the corner.

    I can definitely call your experience out because I worked in UK hospitals employing Citrix remote desktop and that experience was ok, but not what 10GBe offers (and it was local over 1GBe).
    If you say so, I have not measured any latency difference when I done testing of 1/10/100G links on the networking gear I play with for a living. I have not played with 400G yet but that shouldn't be far off before we get in the lab as well.

  12. #3432

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
    The 2.5G NIC will come in handy once I upgrade the LAN in the future.
    As a serious network engineer who does serious network infrastructure for a living:

    2.5g ethernet is is never going to be a thing. If it's free, sure, but never buy it with real money you could spend on something useful.

    And don't get me started on 10G to the desktop. It's as unecessary now as it was 3 years ago.

    FYI a decent VDI RDP uses fuck all bandwidth until you start doing stupid things (eg 1080p youtube videos or try to run 10 player virtual meetings). When you try that, all the bandwisth in the world won't help you. It's about the hamsters in the cages. And no. this isn't a discussion.
    Last edited by Itiken; April 28 2022 at 08:08:22 PM.
    Please don't teach me what to do with my pc.

  13. #3433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
    If you say so, I have not measured any latency difference when I done testing of 1/10/100G links on the networking gear I play with for a living. I have not played with 400G yet but that shouldn't be far off before we get in the lab as well.
    Either you have much better 1GBe hardware/cables or this is just a moot discussion. I have exactly the same hardware on both ends and the only thing different is the infrastructure - 2x 10GBe Mellanox VS 2 CAT5e cables stuck in a Netgear R7000 router running DD-WRT. Latency on 10GBe is infinitely better when compared to the 1GBe link. I haven't plugged the same hardware end to end via CAT5e and I'm not going to redo my whole crap around here just to prove a point.

    It is my experiece I recounted above and you tried to explain that my hardware is shit. Which is a plausible explanation, but then you are trying to explain that Citrix over 500Mbps means no latency at all when I experienced a similar infrastructure over 1GBe and it frankly sucked horribly latency-wise. Not measured, but felt in actual usage - which I agree is subjective but frankly saying there's no lag over 1GBe means you either have it connected directly and/or running fk all on the other end and/or your experience is skewed by using what can only be qualified as a subpar internet connection that is linked to the wondrous (not) UK infrastructure.

    Again, I am curious how you measured this latency - perhaps we're not talking about the same thing? It isn't about getting <1ms pings, it's about having a nice experience when remoting in a full blown desktop on the other side, similar to working locally to a really good machine - and this means accessing files (not 4k crap, just normal folder browsing, working with files e.g. renaming/moving/whatevs), not playing youtube @1080p stuff (albeit that works flawlessly over 10GBe as well) or working with ginormous files.

    Again, I worked with remote desktop into a LAN connected PC over 1GBe and it frankly sucked, refreshing stuff was subpar compared to a 10GBe connection between the same computers.

    @Itiken - yes, mate, we weren't talking bandwidth, we were discussing latency and how shit feels when remoting through a 10GBe connection vs a 1GBe connection.
    Last edited by Cosmin; April 28 2022 at 08:28:51 PM.

  14. #3434
    Mashie Saldana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itiken View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
    The 2.5G NIC will come in handy once I upgrade the LAN in the future.
    As a serious network engineer who does serious network infrastructure for a living:

    2.5g ethernet is is never going to be a thing. If it's free, sure, but never buy it with real money you could spend on something useful.
    I think 2.5g and 5g ethernet will be a thing in the next few years as all broadband providers are jumping on the XGS-PON bandwagon and services over 1g will be common. XGS-PON ONTs come with copper 1/2.5g or 1/2.5/5/10g interfaces at the moment.

    Ubiquity are already starting to implement 2.5g in their kit for example.

    I'm not going to jump on this until it reaches the cost of 1g or the GPON on my street is updated to XGS-PON.

  15. #3435
    Mashie Saldana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    Again, I worked with remote desktop into a LAN connected PC over 1GBe and it frankly sucked, refreshing stuff was subpar compared to a 10GBe connection between the same computers.
    Well I can't explain why you experienced a noticeable latency across a 1g LAN connection. It shouldn't happen unless something is broken or misconfigured.

    I'm glad your upgrade fixed it though.

  16. #3436

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    Thanks for reminding me why I don't try to give people advice on the internet any more.
    Please don't teach me what to do with my pc.

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