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Thread: Zekk Pacus' AMD Ryze(n) hardware thread, July 2017

  1. #3341
    Specially Pegged Donor Overspark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by morpheps View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    My comments are are in the context of PC hardware.
    Pretty much whatever the context, they're mostly coming from the same place and using the same semiconductors and chips, but you do you mate.
    GPU shipments increased by 25% in 2021 vs 2020.

    https://www.jonpeddie.com/press-rele...owing-double-d
    2020 was probably down quite a bit from 2019 though. 2019 vs 2021 would me more interesting.

    While ordering server hardware there are massive supply issues right now and prices are going through the roof. Stuff is 20-50% more expensive than it was a year ago and wait times are 4-6 months if you're lucky. I agree with Malcanis that my local PC hardware shops still seem to carry a decent selection at normal-ish prices if you ignore GPU's, but server hardware is showing me a very very very different story.

  2. #3342

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    Q4 sales in 2020 were slightly below Q4 from 2019, but pretty much what Overspark said. CPUs are fine, I'm not arguing that you cannot buy CPUs right now, but there are shortages pretty much across the board for a *lot* of components, including GPUs.

    Additionally, a shortage doesn't mean that actual numbers are going down. If the market bought 12.7 million units in Q4 2021, that doesn't mean that there was not demand for 15 million units. A shortage means that not enough parts are available. GPUs selling for twice the MSRP would indeed suggest there is unmet demand. Unless you are saying that GPU-makers are holding back stocks to inflate the prices, or that laws of supply and demand do not apply to the GPU market because of miners or whatever your argument is about.

  3. #3343
    GeromeDoutrande's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheps View Post
    WTF is happening to this place? CES is a thing, AMD are teasing Zen4, stacking 96MB of L3 Cache on the 5800X3D and you're talking about whether or not your laptop should have a mini-sd card reader? Has the ongoing supply squeeze / price gauging killed all hardware related discussions?
    I'd say given the last few pages that's a "yes".

    And OF COURSE a laptop should have a mini-sd card reader.

  4. #3344
    Cosmin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overspark View Post
    The weird thing IMHO is that PoW GPU mining seems to be going out of style fast. Of the top 10 cryptocurrencies only Bitcoin and Ethereum (not etherium plz oki thx) are still Proof-of-Work, and Bitcoin mining is completely dominated by ASICs. Ethereum is increasingly mined by ASICs as well, and is supposed to switch to Proof-of-Stake this year (although they've been saying that for a while now). All the others are either stablecoins (Tether, USDC) or Proof-of-Stake, which you don't mine by using loads of power for difficult calculations.

    I know there are still plenty of profitable cases for GPU mining right now, but I really question how long that will last.
    Tether is a fucking scam and so is proof-of-stake but whatever.

    Not to say that all scamcoins are not scams tho

  5. #3345
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    Who needs a new gfx, when you can give a Radeon HD 7950 a 20% overclock
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  6. #3346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by morpheps View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    My comments are are in the context of PC hardware.
    Pretty much whatever the context, they're mostly coming from the same place and using the same semiconductors and chips, but you do you mate.
    GPU shipments increased by 25% in 2021 vs 2020.

    https://www.jonpeddie.com/press-rele...owing-double-d
    GPU prices are literally tracking crypto indexes but hey when did correlation ever imply causation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  7. #3347
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Overspark View Post
    The weird thing IMHO is that PoW GPU mining seems to be going out of style fast. Of the top 10 cryptocurrencies only Bitcoin and Ethereum (not etherium plz oki thx) are still Proof-of-Work, and Bitcoin mining is completely dominated by ASICs. Ethereum is increasingly mined by ASICs as well, and is supposed to switch to Proof-of-Stake this year (although they've been saying that for a while now). All the others are either stablecoins (Tether, USDC) or Proof-of-Stake, which you don't mine by using loads of power for difficult calculations.

    I know there are still plenty of profitable cases for GPU mining right now, but I really question how long that will last.
    Tether is a fucking scam and so is proof-of-stake but whatever.

    Not to say that all scamcoins are not scams tho
    I particularly enjoyed Gibson's characterisation of them as "Dunning-Krugerands"
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  8. #3348
    Specially Pegged Donor Overspark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    Tether is a fucking scam
    Well yes, that's why we have decentralized stablecoins like TerraUSD (UST) these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    and so is proof-of-stake but whatever.
    I know there are people that take issue with the theoretical threat model of PoS not being the same as PoW (although several PoS implementations combine it with a tiny sprinkling of PoW in practice) but that doesn't automatically make PoS a scam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    I particularly enjoyed Gibson's characterisation of them as "Dunning-Krugerands"
    Ironically that's usually used to reference Bitcoin which is arguably the least scammy cryptocurrency. But the point about most users not really understanding it still stands of course.

  9. #3349
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    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    Who needs a new gfx, when you can give a Radeon HD 7950 a 20% overclock
    That’s what I was thinking before my Titan X explodified.

    I fixed it, am testing it today - https://imgur.com/a/fXb99aj


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    Last edited by Cosmin; January 9 2022 at 11:29:46 AM.
    Guns make the news, science doesn't.

  10. #3350

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post

    GPU prices are literally tracking crypto indexes but hey when did correlation ever imply causation?
    Sure; I agree that prices of GPUs are correlated to the prices of crypto. One can assume a correlation from looking at graps, but hey, look at this graph:



    A graph does not in itself tell you the explanatory power of the independent variable. You seem to be under the impression that for linear regression y = f(X) + the error term, y being the dependent variable (GPU price) and X being the explanatory or independent variable (crypto price) there is more or less a positive 1:1 relationship.

    In this model, R squared would be 1 and the p-value below 0.05. Now, I don't have the data to prove you wrong, but I am fairly confident that such an analysis would show that there probably *is* a statistically significant impact on GPU prices from crypto, but I very much doubt R squared is above 0.2.

    In my opinion, the model would be more something along the lines of x1 being crypto prices, x2 being availability of parts, x3 gpu usage in other finished goods (consoles, cars etc). and then some. But hey, sure, crypto bad, I get it.

  11. #3351
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    There's no obvious causal link between global warming and pirates but there's n exceedingly obvious causal link between the rate at which a money printer prints money and the market value of those money printers. In fact it's so tautological that I would suggest that the burden of proof lies in the other direction. It's like saying "yeah OK heavier things seem to do more damage when you drop them on stuff than lighter things do, but ThAt'S nOt PrOoF, jUsT cOrReLaTiOn"
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  12. #3352

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    There's no obvious causal link between global warming and pirates but there's n exceedingly obvious causal link between the rate at which a money printer prints money and the market value of those money printers. In fact it's so tautological that I would suggest that the burden of proof lies in the other direction. It's like saying "yeah OK heavier things seem to do more damage when you drop them on stuff than lighter things do, but ThAt'S nOt PrOoF, jUsT cOrReLaTiOn"
    You are not reading what I am writing. I'm saying that there probably IS a significant correlation, but it is not the sole contributor and there IS a shortage of parts that also play a role.

    Also, the scientific method would suggest that the party who wants to prove that a causes b, forms a null hypothesis that there is no correlation, and then goes on to test that null hypothesis

  13. #3353
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    There's a global semiconductor shortage alongside unprecedented demand for DIY PC parts that was driven in part by the pandemic and new gen console shortages.

  14. #3354

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    In our industry we struggle to get basic components, stuff thats been out for decade plus. Its hitting everywhere!

  15. #3355
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheps View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    There's no obvious causal link between global warming and pirates but there's n exceedingly obvious causal link between the rate at which a money printer prints money and the market value of those money printers. In fact it's so tautological that I would suggest that the burden of proof lies in the other direction. It's like saying "yeah OK heavier things seem to do more damage when you drop them on stuff than lighter things do, but ThAt'S nOt PrOoF, jUsT cOrReLaTiOn"
    You are not reading what I am writing. I'm saying that there probably IS a significant correlation, but it is not the sole contributor and there IS a shortage of parts that also play a role.

    Also, the scientific method would suggest that the party who wants to prove that a causes b, forms a null hypothesis that there is no correlation, and then goes on to test that null hypothesis
    Hypothesis: semiconductor shortages are the primary contributor to incredibly high GPU prices

    Data: GPU prices are fucking bonkers
    Data: Motherboards, RAM and CPUs which share the same manufacturing process and use the same materials and are in the same supply chain are not noticeably more expensive or unavailable. In standard setups it requires 0.5 CPUs and 0.5 motherboards to run 1 GPU, so GPU demand should not exceed 2x the demand for motherboards and CPUs
    Data: But if you're mining with GPUs, any old PCIE3 mobo & CPU will do lol who cares
    Data: GPU prices vary very closely with crytocurrency indices
    Synthesis: It is possible to make GPUs for reasonable prices
    Antithesis: But they're not being sold for reasonable prices, therefore the cause of high prices is demand-side, not supply-side
    Conclusion: Fucking bonkers GPU prices are overwhelmingly caused by mining, why is this so hard to just accept? Yes I know 'overwhelmingly' isn't "sole contributor" but it's near enough for conversational purposes you autist, why are you being so difficult about this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  16. #3356
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    It isn't just mining since NVIDIA has been hiking prices for a while now (Titan XP was 2000$ whereas the previous cards were 1000$ MSRP), the problem is that combined with mining (by dumb people because only dumb people would keep their GPU at 100% load for a year for perhaps a 1800$ benefit at the end of it) it yields the absurd times we're living.

    Also the pandemic continuing means all the people who got into PC gaming stay in PC gaming and are consuming additional resources from the nerds.


    Get off my lawn, yada yada.

  17. #3357

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    Yes, that's the way to do linear regression mate. I am being difficult because you are being an ass. Let's see who stops first, yeah?

  18. #3358
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    It's not like there's been any good video games released recently that justify dropping over a grand on new hardware so why bother.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  19. #3359

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    Any info on the new AMD CPUs?

  20. #3360

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    Just one new SKU, 5800x3d. Same as the old one more or less with extra 64 Mb of L3. Launchdate still unknown. Zen 4 comes in 2H 2022 when AMD feels DDR5 price and availability has improved enough.

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