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Thread: Zekk Pacus' AMD Ryze(n) hardware thread, July 2017

  1. #1661
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Btw, what happens when your CPU power control isn't a part of the secure enclave you're selling to people? Meet Plundervolt, yet another Intel security flaw.

    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    All they've got to do is take 20% off the top line price and they're still laughing all the way to the bank. Benchmarks win forum wars, not markets.
    Thankfully AMD has them in submission, with 50% price knockdowns already.
    Last edited by Daneel Trevize; December 10 2019 at 10:35:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  2. #1662

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    it's nice if you actually follow what's going on when blathering about things as if you know everything all the time
    I do, you evidently don't. AMD instance types are available in between 1/3 and 1/2 of AWS regions (depending on instance type) and in extremely limited quantities - you probably can't have 1,000 M5ads no matter how much you ask nicely. AWS also let you buy time on quantum computers - it doesn't mean they make up a significant proportion of their capacity. AMD's involvement in the public clouds is a warning shot to keep Intel honest, to prove the cloud providers can run heterogeneous estates, not a significant investment to diversify. The bigger threat to Intel is Amazon, MS or Ali rolling out their own custom x86 silicon, but that's not likely. Intel still win the cost-efficiency game at scale, principally because there's an order of magnitude difference in supply capability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    Thankfully AMD has them in submission, with 50% price knockdowns already.
    Again, you're confusing retail for wholesale. It takes 9-18 months for price changes to propagate through enterprise channels. CPU pricing hasn't changed yet for the people who actually buy most of the CPUs.
    Last edited by elmicker; December 10 2019 at 10:40:31 PM.

  3. #1663
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    The bigger threat to Intel is Amazon, MS or Ali rolling out their own custom x86 silicon, but that's not likely. Intel still win the cost-efficiency game at scale, principally because there's an order of magnitude difference in supply capability.
    Who says it has to be x86? Amazon just announced Graviton2, their 2.4Ghz 64bit 64core ARM CPU. There's a lot of modern server software & languages that can just run right now on Linux & ARM. Netbooks, tablets & smartphones helped break assumptions about x86 dependancy & improved cross-platform support, especially w.r.t. portability/spitting out native binaries for a multitude of targets from a single source set. And there's a fuckton of ARM CPUs being made & sold every day.
    Last edited by Daneel Trevize; December 10 2019 at 10:47:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  4. #1664

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    There's a lot of modern server software & languages that can just run right now on Linux & ARM.
    No, there isn't. Seriously, if this was a real threat people would have done it already. It's possible, but it's not worth it. Same goes for POWER and the last five ex-IBMers who still think it has a future. We bought like 10k physical CPUs this year and I wouldn't touch an ARM migration with a bargepole - easily millions in re-engineering and migration costs.

  5. #1665
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    MS forked NodeJS to ARM in 2015. ARM is an NGINX Partner. 9 months ago Docker & ARM announced a major partnership.
    Linux & FOSS has had fine ARM support for many years, what can't run on it? Raspberry Pi helped bring in a lot of grassroots support & manpower. PostGreSQL, the lot. What's not being addressed by Amazon funding custom silicon for themselves?
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  6. #1666

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    There's not even a proper k8s stack for it. But in terms of what drives our usage (and we're typical of large compute consumers), almost none of our data engineering/data science workloads (Python + JVM based), none of our traditional enterprise apps and none of our desktop infra will run on ARM. Yeah maybe we could run the thin frontend layer but why bother? It'll probably be slower (because ARM ports are shit), we'd have to de-k8s it, no one will support it and in the best case we're left with a heterogeneous environment that is, if we're lucky, marginally cheaper but with more unknowns than you can shake a stick at.

    It would take an overwhelming investment to make ARM ready for use as a general purpose platform, and no one is stumping that up. Phones are a good comparison, but differ in a bunch of ways. They mostly run consumer shovelware without particularly complex requirements, they were effectively greenfield, the stack is controlled top-to-bottom by one entity and finally they had two overwhelmingly large entities (Apple and Google) throwing bottomless amounts of money at the problem to make it work. You can't just swap CPU architectures. Even if it technically runs, that's just step one on an extremely long process.
    Last edited by elmicker; December 10 2019 at 11:51:17 PM.

  7. #1667
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    After several months, everything is finally here.




    Some things old,
    Some things new,
    Nothing borrowed,
    And fuck Team Blue.
    Last edited by Nordstern; December 11 2019 at 04:13:56 AM.
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  8. #1668

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    it's nice if you actually follow what's going on when blathering about things as if you know everything all the time
    I do, you evidently don't. AMD instance types are available in between 1/3 and 1/2 of AWS regions (depending on instance type) and in extremely limited quantities - you probably can't have 1,000 M5ads no matter how much you ask nicely. AWS also let you buy time on quantum computers - it doesn't mean they make up a significant proportion of their capacity. AMD's involvement in the public clouds is a warning shot to keep Intel honest, to prove the cloud providers can run heterogeneous estates, not a significant investment to diversify. The bigger threat to Intel is Amazon, MS or Ali rolling out their own custom x86 silicon, but that's not likely. Intel still win the cost-efficiency game at scale, principally because there's an order of magnitude difference in supply capability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    Thankfully AMD has them in submission, with 50% price knockdowns already.
    Again, you're confusing retail for wholesale. It takes 9-18 months for price changes to propagate through enterprise channels. CPU pricing hasn't changed yet for the people who actually buy most of the CPUs.
    "x and y don't use this or give a shit about it, doesn't exist"

    *they literally offer it and have it*

    "yeah but this doesnt matter"

    Your posting in a nutshell. Peak fhc.

    The bit about custom x86 hardware is especially choice. How exactly do you propose they even hypothetically get that going with the state of that industry and it's various rights goes?

    Oh and don't assume I share stance with Daneel because, as you say, consumer hardware. Heck even then it's still gonna be a little while before the proper effects are seen.

    Sure like 90% of enthusiasts through places like gamers nexus are buying amd atm but there's a shitload of Intel hardware still around. it's not like things change in a second and suddenly everyone has x or y on already established systems. But they're definitely having an effect, and people are adopting them, so not sure what the hell you lot are even arguing so much about here. Discounting good solid hardware that definitely is gaining some traction is just as ridiculous though.

    Or are you trying to imply the only way we can say x has an effect is if suddenly the majority of established providers scrap their perfectly fine Intel hardware and switch? Because that's a frankly idiotic expectation.

    Unless you're all just trying to prove to each other how big your armchair analyst dicks are, in which case go right ahead I guess. I think you're all bit frankly ridiculously absolute
    Last edited by Isyel; December 11 2019 at 05:04:58 AM.

  9. #1669
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Bastards! How dare they cancel my order!



    #CancelCrew
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  10. #1670
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    IDGI, I assumed it was something of actual value at a mispricing a tiny fraction of what it should be, but a quick google shows several suppliers, some with stock, for <$2.

    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    almost none of our data engineering/data science workloads (Python + JVM based), none of our traditional enterprise apps and none of our desktop infra will run on ARM.
    ARM CPUs have/had the option to run JVM bytecode natively ffs. JVM-based, Python and other interpreted languages can most certainly run on ARM thanks to their JIT nature. And again, Amazon's throwing money at CPUs specifically for their cloud offerings, no doubt tailored towards what they know is being run there atm and what market segments they'd next like to bring over.
    Amazon, the same Jeff who just gives Blue Origin $1bil/year constantly, seemingly without expecting any actual results.

    As for them choosing ARM over x86, it's indeed less of a licencing minefield, but also because CISC is dead, it's all RISC really anyway & going many-cored, but RISC-V was probably a little too far out & too much of a stretch to gamble on for the first go. But it'll be far less of a leap down the line and shave significant costs & limitations off if they later transition, along with having built up their understanding of how to design/solicit custom RISC chips.

    P.S. Don't forget Cell(PS3) & Xbox360 were PowerPC, people have ported data crunching science systems & mass-market consumer pipelines to new archs if the hardware's got the right performance and price.
    Last edited by Daneel Trevize; December 11 2019 at 08:33:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  11. #1671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    This is not correct. Yes they're late with all the above but that seems to be because of Intel's hubris in regards to their node shrink prowess and not for lack of anticipating chiplet designs. They just had planned to do them on a 10 nm process with their Foveros™.

    https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/foveros
    Foveros exemplifies Intel's current problems. It is very late to the game and appears to little concrete evidence that it actually exists beyond marketing slides. If they actually start deploying it in volume products then I'll acknowledge they've caught up, still waiting for any sign of that though.

    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker
    Again, you're confusing retail for wholesale. It takes 9-18 months for price changes to propagate through enterprise channels. CPU pricing hasn't changed yet for the people who actually buy most of the CPUs.
    I can't talk about the enterprise space, it's not my area, but I can absolutely guarantee that prices have gone up for companies buying Intel desktop and embedded CPUs in smaller (5-figure and below) quantities. Worse, supply is irregular and some SKUs are simply not available. Last week I was taking to a vendor that builds embedded systems based on BGA Atom processors, and the word from my contact there is that supply problems are very, very bad. But they are stuck for the moment because you can't just swap to another CPU on that kind of product without a very expensive redesign.

  12. #1672
    walrus's Avatar
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    Intel recently un-discontinued a 22nm Haswell Pentium.

    It can't be going swimmingly at team blue.
      Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    But islamism IS a product of class warfare. Rich white countries come into developing brown dictatorships, wreck the leadership, infrastructure and economy and then act all surprised that religious fanaticism is on the rise.
    Also:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenta View Post
    walrus isnt a bad poster.
    Quote Originally Posted by cullnean View Post
    also i like walrus.
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    Yer a hoot

  13. #1673
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Posting from my brand-new Lenovo Ideapad 330S, which has a Ryzen 5 2500U and Vega 8 graphics. Nice little unit with extended keyboard and IPS screen. But the trackpad has no scroll function and the cooling fan is higher-pitched than I like.

    Still, for $300, it's pretty good. Preliminary benchmarking shows it on par with my old 3770K.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
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  14. #1674
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    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    Intel recently un-discontinued a 22nm Haswell Pentium.

    It can't be going swimmingly at team blue.
    1.4nm by 2026? lmao
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
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  15. #1675
    VARRAKK's Avatar
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    I don't know how to use all of these

    Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???

  16. #1676
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Cinebench R20 and Blender, that's how. While liverstreaming PUBG with OBS and rendering a 4K highlights reel in the background.

    Nice score, btw.
    Last edited by Nordstern; December 12 2019 at 08:20:41 PM.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...
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  17. #1677
    VARRAKK's Avatar
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    Right now I'm just working on installing all my shit.
    And there is 3 HDD's I don't have physical room for in the new chassi, so thats a headache.


    For some reason Epic Game Store crashes my machine.
    BIOS was just reinstalled and new chipset up next. The gigabyte updater didn't work for me yesterday, working on it manually today.
    Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???

  18. #1678
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    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    And there is 3 HDD's I don't have physical room for in the new chassi, so thats a headache.
    NAS box?

  19. #1679
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeromeDoutrande View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    And there is 3 HDD's I don't have physical room for in the new chassi, so thats a headache.
    NAS box?
    Hit me up with a recommendation. Will be used 100% for running plex.
    Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???

  20. #1680
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeromeDoutrande View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    And there is 3 HDD's I don't have physical room for in the new chassi, so thats a headache.
    NAS box?
    Hit me up with a recommendation. Will be used 100% for running plex.
    Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???

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