Supreme Court ruling is in: no ban on violent games

[TurielD]

So this year the US Supreme Court has been considering if Callifornia was allowed to ban the sales of violent games to minors. It's taken a long time to reach it's conclusion, it's worked through pretty much all other matters that it was considering since last November when the case was brought before it. Now they've decided in favour of gaming with a 7 to 2 majority, Thomas wrote a dissenting opinion; his dissent comes down to 'yeah you can do this if you want, and while you're at it ban rap music and violent tv too if you feel like' he doesn't really care about games, just that the first amendment was being stretched to support these kind of things as 'speech'. Breyer also dissented, and frankly I just don't care about him.

If the law was allowed, it would be a major blow to gaming: serious gaming would take a hit on the development side due to restricted market and retail would become a liability-infested quagmire first in cali and then all over the US as other states instituted similar rules - think Steam having to check you sitting behind your PC are actually 18 before they could sell to you. Conversely if the law was found to be unconstitutional and overturned it would be a vindication of games as an artform, enjoying the same protections as music, tv, literature etc... and that's what we got, thankfully

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/08-1448.pdf

"reading Dante is unquestionably more cultured and intellectually edifying than playing Mortal Kombat... these cultural and intellectual differences are not constitutional ones. Crudely violent video games...are no less forms of speech than The Divine Comedy, and restrictions upon them must survive strict scrutiny."

I'll just steal some excerpts from an old escapist article:

Justice Scalia, a Constitutional originalist, was the staunchest supporter of the First Amendment rights of videogame creators and consumers, saying "I am concerned with the First Amendment, which says Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech.... It has never been understood that the freedom of speech did not include portrayals of violence. You are asking us to create a whole new prohibition... What's next after violence? Drinking? Smoking? Movies that show smoking can't be shown to children?" He also did not buy California's argument that the technology of games made them special, pointing out, "This same argument could have been made when movies first came out. They could have said, 'Oh we've never had violence in Grimm's fairy tales, but we've never had it live on the screen...' Every time there's a new technology, you can make that argument." He then sarcastically suggested "You should consider creating...the California office of censorship. It would judge each of these video games one by one. That would be very nice."

Justice Kagan was not as vocal about the First Amendment generally, but she clearly did not buy the state's argument that video games were harmful. "Do you actually have studies that show that video games are more harmful to minors than movies are?" she inquired. More tellingly, she asked the state's attorney "[Do] you think Mortal Kombat is prohibited by this statute?" When he said yes, her disbelief was palpable: "Mortal Kombat, which is an iconic game, which I am sure half of the clerks who work for us spent considerable amounts of time in their adolescence playing?"

Justice Sotomayor's questions suggested she was also against the California law. She asked, "Could you get rid of rap music? Have you heard some of the lyrics of some of the rap music? Some of the original violent songs that have been sung about killing people? Why isn't that obscene?" She also displayed more than a passing familiarity with the tropes of video games. "Would a video game that portrayed a Vulcan, as opposed to a human being, being maimed and tortured...be covered by the act? What happens when the character gets maimed, head chopped off, and then immediately after it happens they spring back to life and they continue their battle? Is that covered by your act? Because they haven't been maimed and killed forever. Just temporarily."

[Rai Deo]

Good stuff.

[Spaztick]

California doing stupid shit, for once I'm glad our Federal government keeps whackos in check.

[TurielD]

The california senator making a good amount of the arguments for the dumbasses is Leland Yee:

"As a result of their decision, Wal-Mart and the videogame industry will continue to make billions of dollars at the expense of our kids' mental health and the safety of our community, it is simply wrong that the videogame industry can be allowed to put their profit margins over the rights of parents and the well-being of children."

Heh, poor parents! Their rights getting violated by gamestores not doing their job for them.

[pratell]

The california senator making a good amount of the arguments for the dumbasses is Leland Yee:

"As a result of their decision, Wal-Mart and the videogame industry will continue to make billions of dollars at the expense of our kids' mental health and the safety of our community, it is simply wrong that the videogame industry can be allowed to put their profit margins over the rights of parents and the well-being of children."

Heh, poor parents! Their rights getting violated by gamestores not doing their job for them.

don't be stupid, how are people supposed to know what's good for their kids or not unless the government informs them?

[Devec]

Violence teaches you what not to do, as it usually hurts. Silly overprotective parents.

[cpl_fisher]

::California::

[dr axler]

In the high school I went to one headmaster set up a place where students could smoke, so they dint litter the place across the street I guess, and weren't late for class. Had a roof too so they wouldn't get soaked in the rain. Was pretty cool I thought.
The ragestorm that ensued by the parents was of course epic resulting in a confrontation of a mother and the headmaster at one of the meetings.
The mother is quoted saying:"How dare you let my child smoke"

[Chrien]

You'll see the same line of argument over injecting rooms, legalising brothels, drugs etc...
Rather than acknowledging that these social problems will exist irrespective of the law and try to do our utmost to moderate their effect on society we just ban them

[Omega Supreme]

The california senator making a good amount of the arguments for the dumbasses is Leland Yee:

"As a result of their decision, Wal-Mart and the videogame industry will continue to make billions of dollars at the expense of our kids' mental health and the safety of our community, it is simply wrong that the videogame industry can be allowed to put their profit margins over the rights of parents and the well-being of children."

Heh, poor parents! Their rights getting violated by gamestores not doing their job for them.

Yee's p. butthurt. I remember as early as 2001 when I tried to buy an M-rated game (I was 16 at the time) I had to have my father with me to do it. That was at a FuncoLand however.

I don't know about GameStop or Wal-Mart since I've not had to repeat that experience, but I assume any non-retarded clerk will get parent permission before selling it. Since you know, shit like that gets you fired and makes getting future jobs pretty goddamn hard when the employer sees you're willing to sell shit like that to underaged people.

[Reed Tiburon]

Justice Kagan was not as vocal about the First Amendment generally, but she clearly did not buy the state's argument that video games were harmful. "Do you actually have studies that show that video games are more harmful to minors than movies are?" she inquired. More tellingly, she asked the state's attorney "[Do] you think Mortal Kombat is prohibited by this statute?" When he said yes, her disbelief was palpable: "Mortal Kombat, which is an iconic game, which I am sure half of the clerks who work for us spent considerable amounts of time in their adolescence playing?"

last sentence gives me hope more than anything else tbh. glad vidya games aren't the boogeyman anymore

[Fitzy]

Kagan and Sotomayor's questions demonstrate such knowledge of the issue that the feelings of hope bring me near to tears. Who could beleive, in the current poilitical climate, that an American institution could be so logical and sensible?

[ValorousBob]

Justice Kagan was not as vocal about the First Amendment generally, but she clearly did not buy the state's argument that video games were harmful. "Do you actually have studies that show that video games are more harmful to minors than movies are?" she inquired. More tellingly, she asked the state's attorney "[Do] you think Mortal Kombat is prohibited by this statute?" When he said yes, her disbelief was palpable: "Mortal Kombat, which is an iconic game, which I am sure half of the clerks who work for us spent considerable amounts of time in their adolescence playing?"

last sentence gives me hope more than anything else tbh. glad vidya games aren't the boogeyman anymore

Hahahaha I think there's a great oppurtunity for an Onion News Spceial here: "Justice Kagan, what is your favorite finishing move?? Is it true that you used Scorpion to defeat Sotomayor?"

[Mrenda]

herp derp de guberment parenting my kids

Fuck loads of parents are shit at parenting their children. I see nothing wrong with banning the sale of GTA or Manhunt to children. If the parent decides their child is allowed to play it, they can buy the game for them. Otherwise children shouldn't have access to any number of things, fireworks, Trainspotting, hunting knives, Manhunt and booze are all things some douchebag 13 year old shouldn't be allowed buy with their saved up pocket money. This bollocks about stopping parents from parenting is rubbish. All it does is allow the parent know that the same people who would literally sell their kids drugs (cigarette companies marketed to kids until cigarette advertising was banned) aren't going to sell them other unsuitable things behind their back. And then, if you do think your child is mature enough and should have access to such things, you can buy it for them.

[dr axler]

herp derp de guberment parenting my kids

Fuck loads of parents are shit at parenting their children. I see nothing wrong with banning the sale of GTA or Manhunt to children. If the parent decides their child is allowed to play it, they can buy the game for them. Otherwise children shouldn't have access to any number of things, fireworks, Trainspotting, hunting knives, Manhunt and booze are all things some douchebag 13 year old shouldn't be allowed buy with their saved up pocket money. This bollocks about stopping parents from parenting is rubbish. All it does is allow the parent know that the same people who would literally sell their kids drugs (cigarette companies marketed to kids until cigarette advertising was banned) aren't going to sell them other unsuitable things behind their back. And then, if you do think your child is mature enough and should have access to such things, you can buy it for them.

Or you know, the parent could teach the child not to do those things. Lets see if we can make a verb out of it...hmm...parent...parenting?

[Mrenda]

herp derp de guberment parenting my kids

Fuck loads of parents are shit at parenting their children. I see nothing wrong with banning the sale of GTA or Manhunt to children. If the parent decides their child is allowed to play it, they can buy the game for them. Otherwise children shouldn't have access to any number of things, fireworks, Trainspotting, hunting knives, Manhunt and booze are all things some douchebag 13 year old shouldn't be allowed buy with their saved up pocket money. This bollocks about stopping parents from parenting is rubbish. All it does is allow the parent know that the same people who would literally sell their kids drugs (cigarette companies marketed to kids until cigarette advertising was banned) aren't going to sell them other unsuitable things behind their back. And then, if you do think your child is mature enough and should have access to such things, you can buy it for them.

Or you know, the parent could teach the child not to do those things. Lets see if we can make a verb out of it...hmm...parent...parenting?

Are you literally retarded? Because I can't genuinely think how anyone with a functional IQ level could not see the flaw in that line of thinking. Seriously. I'm usually a bit flippant with how I treat people on here, sure it's all for laffs, but I am genuinely questioning how you could not see a problem with what you said.

At best you're blinded by your own derpacious arguments in favour of games.

[Samp]

Urchins gonna urch.

I'm in favour of games only being available to 40 year olds. Fucking kids shit-up all the games I play. Only, what 40% of kids have parenting, that's not new, what is new is that all the kids have disposable income. They've got $$$$ and no rent to pay ofc they are goign to get games. That's fine, just don't let the fuckers on line. No cunt is paying me to swear at other poeples children, it cust in to my play-time.

[Herschel Yamamoto]

Kagan and Sotomayor's questions demonstrate such knowledge of the issue that the feelings of hope bring me near to tears. Who could beleive, in the current poilitical climate, that an American institution could be so logical and sensible?

Honestly, the more I see of judges, the more I tend to respect the hell out of them. Even the bitchy ones I disagree with a lot tend to be razor-sharp, relatively witty, and capable of some pretty impressive reasoning. And the Supreme Court is the best of the lot. It makes some of their derp rather hard to understand, but hey, they're still human.

I see nothing wrong with banning the sale of GTA or Manhunt to children. If the parent decides their child is allowed to play it, they can buy the game for them.

Fortunately for us, James Madison is smarter dead than you are alive.

[dr axler]

herp derp de guberment parenting my kids

Fuck loads of parents are shit at parenting their children. I see nothing wrong with banning the sale of GTA or Manhunt to children. If the parent decides their child is allowed to play it, they can buy the game for them. Otherwise children shouldn't have access to any number of things, fireworks, Trainspotting, hunting knives, Manhunt and booze are all things some douchebag 13 year old shouldn't be allowed buy with their saved up pocket money. This bollocks about stopping parents from parenting is rubbish. All it does is allow the parent know that the same people who would literally sell their kids drugs (cigarette companies marketed to kids until cigarette advertising was banned) aren't going to sell them other unsuitable things behind their back. And then, if you do think your child is mature enough and should have access to such things, you can buy it for them.

Or you know, the parent could teach the child not to do those things. Lets see if we can make a verb out of it...hmm...parent...parenting?

Are you literally retarded? Because I can't genuinely think how anyone with a functional IQ level could not see the flaw in that line of thinking. Seriously. I'm usually a bit flippant with how I treat people on here, sure it's all for laffs, but I am genuinely questioning how you could not see a problem with what you said.

At best you're blinded by your own derpacious arguments in favour of games.

I guess its cause I was one of the few children who was allowed to have a PC with internet connection in his room which could be locked (through elementary school and then through high school). Most of my friends didn't because that was unheard of. Their parents thought it would stop them from studying or something. most children that I know of today still don't. I think its stupid because that liberty that I had made a great impact on who I am today. I educated myself through the freedom of the internet on lots of things. Learned how to rip games, then later basic programming and am now studying computer science. That liberty had a huge impact on my life.
While this might sound narcissistic I think I turned out pretty ok. This supposedly makes no sense cause my parents had little time and didn't do a lot of parenting as evident in my freedom. Whereas as some of those friends with lots of "parenting" and restrictions all around (on tv time, internet time...) turned out irresponsible and unable to take care of themselves.
Its like when a child fails at a certain class in school and then parents do the homework for him in say physics or maths. Then after a while he comes to a lvl of difficulty they can no longer do. Then what? Hire a tutor to tutor a child that does not know the basics and is therefore unable to learn?
He needs to make it on his own. Posing limitations and overprotecting will result in a person who is unable to take care of themselves. Overparenting is bad parenting. Yes you are way way smarter then your kid and know what is good for him but you cant just tell him that. You cant ban something from him, tell him its for his own good and expect he will understand. He needs to come to those conclusion himself. How you guide him on this process is in my opinion what makes a good parent.

[Mrenda]

I see nothing wrong with banning the sale of GTA or Manhunt to children. If the parent decides their child is allowed to play it, they can buy the game for them.

Fortunately for us, James Madison is smarter dead than you are alive.

A bit hypocritical of him to ban swearing on TV I think.