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Thread: The Automation Spiral (obligatory loleconomics thread v2)

  1. #1341
    rufuske's Avatar
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    Read enough. Am able to smell bullshit of both sides from a distance. Especially of people who fanatically subscribe to one or the other as be all end all solution to all problems.

  2. #1342
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Real capitalism has never been tried etc.
    This is real capitalism. Free markets have never been tried because as soon as winners start to emerge the rational thing for them to do is dismantle the 'free' bit.
    Being serious for a bit, yup, exactly that. Monopolies, oligopolies and all other pathologies are formed and it's all for the big guys left standing to divide and rule. I just find it ironic that people shouting free markets etc the loudest, are the first to chop off the invisible hand of the market when it's banker and their finance pals businesses in danger. If other side does it, it's communism.
    Welcome to the social relations between workers and capital. There's been a lot written about it which you might find interesting.





    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Read enough. Am able to smell bullshit of both sides from a distance. Especially of people who fanatically subscribe to one or the other as be all end all solution to all problems.
    le enlightened centrist
    Last edited by RazoR; April 9 2020 at 04:49:19 PM.

  3. #1343
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    ayyyyy
    dat flag
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  4. #1344
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Read enough. Am able to smell bullshit of both sides from a distance. Especially of people who fanatically subscribe to one or the other as be all end all solution to all problems.
    But I'm right

  5. #1345
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Read enough. Am able to smell bullshit of both sides from a distance. Especially of people who fanatically subscribe to one or the other as be all end all solution to all problems.
    But I'm right
    it's kind of interesting how "the truth is in the middle" is the go-to response for so many people when there is a lot of issues where the truth is not "in the middle" and never will be.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  6. #1346
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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  7. #1347
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Read enough. Am able to smell bullshit of both sides from a distance. Especially of people who fanatically subscribe to one or the other as be all end all solution to all problems.
    But I'm right
    it's kind of interesting how "the truth is in the middle" is the go-to response for so many people when there is a lot of issues where the truth is not "in the middle" and never will be.
    Yeah I think many people have been successfully housebroken into just not having any firm set of beliefs or opinions.

  8. #1348
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Dude knows whats up. He's right too.

    This socialized losses bullshit is literally anti-free market, if they even want to get all fucking philosophical about it. An actual pro free market (which I am in favor of, btw, a heavily anti-trust regulated, more or less free market) solution is to let those companies unable to adapt, die out, and let new blood with better ideas rise in their place.

    As I've said before, I'm sure the airline CEOs can learn JavaScript.
    Last edited by erichkknaar; April 10 2020 at 04:52:21 PM.
    meh

  9. #1349
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    I also think markets are, for most situations, the right mechanism for allocating resources. But if you don’t allow firms that have mismanaged themselves to fail, you’re grossly distorting the system.

  10. #1350
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    The pearl clutching from that reporter is amazing.
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  11. #1351
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    I also think markets are, for most situations, the right mechanism for allocating resources. But if you donít allow firms that have mismanaged themselves to fail, youíre grossly distorting the system.
    Lets discuss a medical insurance system that simply adds two zeros to the cost of everything to "show value" where in fact, nothing of any value has been created. Parasites are not good for the market either. It's essentially an attempt at a "free ride"
    meh

  12. #1352
    Caldrion Dosto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Dude knows whats up. He's right too.

    This socialized losses bullshit is literally anti-free market, if they even want to get all fucking philosophical about it. An actual pro free market (which I am in favor of, btw, a heavily anti-trust regulated, more or less free market) solution is to let those companies unable to adapt, die out, and let new blood with better ideas rise in their place.

    As I've said before, I'm sure the airline CEOs can learn JavaScript.
    Any "free market" inevitably ends up as a monopoly.
    Hi Amazon Overlords!

    EDIT: Its basically the first lesson in every econ class.

  13. #1353
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    I also think markets are, for most situations, the right mechanism for allocating resources. But if you don’t allow firms that have mismanaged themselves to fail, you’re grossly distorting the system.
    Lets discuss a medical insurance system that simply adds two zeros to the cost of everything to "show value" where in fact, nothing of any value has been created. Parasites are not good for the market either. It's essentially an attempt at a "free ride"
    Right. Healthcare is something that markets don’t handle well.

  14. #1354
    Totally Not Larkonnis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Dude knows whats up. He's right too.

    This socialized losses bullshit is literally anti-free market, if they even want to get all fucking philosophical about it. An actual pro free market (which I am in favor of, btw, a heavily anti-trust regulated, more or less free market) solution is to let those companies unable to adapt, die out, and let new blood with better ideas rise in their place.

    As I've said before, I'm sure the airline CEOs can learn JavaScript.
    Any "free market" inevitably ends up as a monopoly.
    Hi Amazon Overlords!

    EDIT: Its basically the first lesson in every econ class.
    There's a balance. In a perfect world there would be enough regulation to encourage small businesses and not give large companies any advantage. Small companies would be 'agile' and niche enough to exploit opportunities quicker than big firms. Unfortunately in the US and EU there's been a great deal of lobbying for regulation that's put smaller firms at a disadvantage.


  15. #1355
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Dude knows whats up. He's right too.

    This socialized losses bullshit is literally anti-free market, if they even want to get all fucking philosophical about it. An actual pro free market (which I am in favor of, btw, a heavily anti-trust regulated, more or less free market) solution is to let those companies unable to adapt, die out, and let new blood with better ideas rise in their place.

    As I've said before, I'm sure the airline CEOs can learn JavaScript.
    Any "free market" inevitably ends up as a monopoly.
    Hi Amazon Overlords!

    EDIT: Its basically the first lesson in every econ class.
    There's a balance. In a perfect world there would be enough regulation to encourage small businesses and not give large companies any advantage. Small companies would be 'agile' and niche enough to exploit opportunities quicker than big firms. Unfortunately in the US and EU there's been a great deal of lobbying for regulation that's put smaller firms at a disadvantage.
    100%. Same way you would disperse resources to avoid single points of failure. An economy with more, smaller companies is way more resilient than a few giant ones.
    meh

  16. #1356
    Venec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Dude knows whats up. He's right too.

    This socialized losses bullshit is literally anti-free market, if they even want to get all fucking philosophical about it. An actual pro free market (which I am in favor of, btw, a heavily anti-trust regulated, more or less free market) solution is to let those companies unable to adapt, die out, and let new blood with better ideas rise in their place.

    As I've said before, I'm sure the airline CEOs can learn JavaScript.
    Any "free market" inevitably ends up as a monopoly.
    Hi Amazon Overlords!

    EDIT: Its basically the first lesson in every econ class.
    There's a balance. In a perfect world there would be enough regulation to encourage small businesses and not give large companies any advantage. Small companies would be 'agile' and niche enough to exploit opportunities quicker than big firms. Unfortunately in the US and EU there's been a great deal of lobbying for regulation that's put smaller firms at a disadvantage.
    100%. Same way you would disperse resources to avoid single points of failure. An economy with more, smaller companies is way more resilient than a few giant ones.
    And make that those small companies are ruled by workers (ie managers, directors, ceos etc are elected by the workers), give the companies political powers and you have what most of socialists argue for. You can't have a working, stable democracy when your economy is ruled in a authoritarian or a totalitarian way, like it's done now (corporations). Economy needs to be democratic too.

    Ooga booga, scary communism. Gulags, Stalin, Mao.

    inb4 another leftie disagrees with me lmao
    Last edited by Venec; April 10 2020 at 07:17:04 PM.

  17. #1357
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Dude knows whats up. He's right too.

    This socialized losses bullshit is literally anti-free market, if they even want to get all fucking philosophical about it. An actual pro free market (which I am in favor of, btw, a heavily anti-trust regulated, more or less free market) solution is to let those companies unable to adapt, die out, and let new blood with better ideas rise in their place.

    As I've said before, I'm sure the airline CEOs can learn JavaScript.
    Any "free market" inevitably ends up as a monopoly.
    Hi Amazon Overlords!

    EDIT: Its basically the first lesson in every econ class.
    There's a balance. In a perfect world there would be enough regulation to encourage small businesses and not give large companies any advantage. Small companies would be 'agile' and niche enough to exploit opportunities quicker than big firms. Unfortunately in the US and EU there's been a great deal of lobbying for regulation that's put smaller firms at a disadvantage.
    100%. Same way you would disperse resources to avoid single points of failure. An economy with more, smaller companies is way more resilient than a few giant ones.
    And make that those small companies are ruled by workers (ie managers, directors, ceos etc are elected by the workers), give the companies political powers and you have what most of socialists argue for. You can't have a working, stable democracy when your economy is ruled in a authoritarian or a totalitarian way, like it's done now (corporations). Economy needs to be democratic too.

    Ooga booga, scary communism. Gulags, Stalin, Mao.

    inb4 another leftie disagrees with me lmao
    No that' correct.

    Democracy is a sham if the majority of your waking hours are controlled by some autocrat in the workplace.

    It's also why the love for small businesses is so questionable. Sure it'd be nice if Walmart didn't hoover up and displace literally every local business, but breaking them up right now would only shift the balance of power to other property owners. For the avg worker there's no functional difference between the Emperor and a local Baronet.

  18. #1358
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    The emperor is the almighty dollar.

  19. #1359
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Dude knows whats up. He's right too.

    This socialized losses bullshit is literally anti-free market, if they even want to get all fucking philosophical about it. An actual pro free market (which I am in favor of, btw, a heavily anti-trust regulated, more or less free market) solution is to let those companies unable to adapt, die out, and let new blood with better ideas rise in their place.

    As I've said before, I'm sure the airline CEOs can learn JavaScript.
    Any "free market" inevitably ends up as a monopoly.
    Hi Amazon Overlords!

    EDIT: Its basically the first lesson in every econ class.
    There's a balance. In a perfect world there would be enough regulation to encourage small businesses and not give large companies any advantage. Small companies would be 'agile' and niche enough to exploit opportunities quicker than big firms. Unfortunately in the US and EU there's been a great deal of lobbying for regulation that's put smaller firms at a disadvantage.
    100%. Same way you would disperse resources to avoid single points of failure. An economy with more, smaller companies is way more resilient than a few giant ones.
    And make that those small companies are ruled by workers (ie managers, directors, ceos etc are elected by the workers), give the companies political powers and you have what most of socialists argue for. You can't have a working, stable democracy when your economy is ruled in a authoritarian or a totalitarian way, like it's done now (corporations). Economy needs to be democratic too.

    Ooga booga, scary communism. Gulags, Stalin, Mao.

    inb4 another leftie disagrees with me lmao
    No that' correct.

    Democracy is a sham if the majority of your waking hours are controlled by some autocrat in the workplace.

    It's also why the love for small businesses is so questionable. Sure it'd be nice if Walmart didn't hoover up and displace literally every local business, but breaking them up right now would only shift the balance of power to other property owners. For the avg worker there's no functional difference between the Emperor and a local Baronet.
    If the workers knew what to do, and actually achieve any of that, they would have already...

    It's either an autocrat in the workplace, or an autocrat from the party.
    meh

  20. #1360
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Dude knows whats up. He's right too.

    This socialized losses bullshit is literally anti-free market, if they even want to get all fucking philosophical about it. An actual pro free market (which I am in favor of, btw, a heavily anti-trust regulated, more or less free market) solution is to let those companies unable to adapt, die out, and let new blood with better ideas rise in their place.

    As I've said before, I'm sure the airline CEOs can learn JavaScript.
    Any "free market" inevitably ends up as a monopoly.
    Hi Amazon Overlords!

    EDIT: Its basically the first lesson in every econ class.
    There's a balance. In a perfect world there would be enough regulation to encourage small businesses and not give large companies any advantage. Small companies would be 'agile' and niche enough to exploit opportunities quicker than big firms. Unfortunately in the US and EU there's been a great deal of lobbying for regulation that's put smaller firms at a disadvantage.
    100%. Same way you would disperse resources to avoid single points of failure. An economy with more, smaller companies is way more resilient than a few giant ones.
    And make that those small companies are ruled by workers (ie managers, directors, ceos etc are elected by the workers), give the companies political powers and you have what most of socialists argue for. You can't have a working, stable democracy when your economy is ruled in a authoritarian or a totalitarian way, like it's done now (corporations). Economy needs to be democratic too.

    Ooga booga, scary communism. Gulags, Stalin, Mao.

    inb4 another leftie disagrees with me lmao
    No that' correct.

    Democracy is a sham if the majority of your waking hours are controlled by some autocrat in the workplace.

    It's also why the love for small businesses is so questionable. Sure it'd be nice if Walmart didn't hoover up and displace literally every local business, but breaking them up right now would only shift the balance of power to other property owners. For the avg worker there's no functional difference between the Emperor and a local Baronet.
    If the workers knew what to do, and actually achieve any of that, they would have already...

    It's either an autocrat in the workplace, or an autocrat from the party.
    It's the people who are too dumb, but i am very intelligent on the other hand

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