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Thread: The Automation Spiral (obligatory loleconomics thread v2)

  1. #1281
    VARRAKK's Avatar
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    So many people here with Tesla opinion, but no understanding of the company.

    Yes they could have easily gone for a "higher volume, but simpler car" strategy.
    But Tesla's aim is two parted. They wanted to build the first electric Primary car.
    Up till now, EV's been a novelty, and a secondary car for lighter chores.

    The second part is delayed gratification. Their strategy is more like Amazon then any other car company.
    Tesla is sacrificing short term gains for a long term goals. All their stuff is incredibly advanced compared to any other competitor.
    Batteries, Engines, Electronics & Software, they got no competition here.


    The tradition company when putting a new car on the roads.
    They design the car and its components, reusing as many existing parts as possible.
    What is new, they send out blueprints and design specs to their suppliers with volumes per day required.
    This is the supply chain, and every supplier got their own staff and expenses to cover + a profit margin.

    Tesla builds their own circuit boards, with their own chips. Engines and batteries. And develops their own software.
    This is profits that is normally outsourced to a third party supplier, but instead they are kept in house.

    Tesla stocks aren't a bubble, they are underpriced.
    If they survive this pandemic, they will be one of the most valuable and important companies within a few years.
    Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???

  2. #1282
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    None of that has anything to do with the cult stock designation though.

    Apple was also a cult stock, but it now has decent fundamentals and enough cash to buy a few developing countries.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  3. #1283

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    Is a cult stock now also something that trades at a lower P/E ratio than comparable stocks or something?

  4. #1284
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    Cult stocks rise based on media/culture/branding hype rather than the fundamentals of the underlying company. Tesla is a good example because there were significant periods of time where it had bigger price movements based on what Musk was posting on twitter than when it released quarterly sales figures.

    If it was based on P/E then every stock in the last bull run could have probably been deemed a cult stock. Finance capitalism is a death cult anyway
    Last edited by Keckers; April 5 2020 at 01:07:28 PM.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  5. #1285

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    So seeing as Apple's share price has pretty much always been below the valuation of comparable stocks by standard measures, you think they'd be even lower were they not a "cult stock"? How to you know they were actually a cult stock, they've almost never been overvalued by most standard measurements.

  6. #1286
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    I've never delved into their stock history but Apple are often mentioned as an early cult stock. The last decade has skewed pretty much all sense of proportionality so anything before then is judged by different standards I guess.

    Or the term has changed with time? I dunno, I just find weird quirks in finance interesting.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  7. #1287

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    Well, it may be true if you delve as far back as the 80s, but they've been largely "undervalued" since the 90s, so the idea of it being a cult stock is a bit amusing in the absence of some way to measure it.

  8. #1288
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    Hell the production delay probably helps by cementing the 'exclusivity' of a Tesla.
    ding ding ding...
    meh

  9. #1289

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    Quote Originally Posted by teds :D View Post
    Nordstern this is just advice. You don't seem to know how to do basic background checks on the companies you're investing money in, and you didn't know what rates your broker was charging.

    You should stop. You could very easily lose a lot of money and not realise.
    Yeah ... it depends. I've been building up my portfolio since ~ 1998. And I never did any background checks the way you implied.

    However, I also only invest in companies that are in fields where I have domain knowledge (tourism and IT). So while I don't check their financial reports, I've witnessed the products (sometimes even used them myself) and the success of these companies for years (or even decades sometimes).

  10. #1290
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Me: I should invest in Carnival.
    Thread: You're fucking insane.
    Carnival: *goes up 24%*

    Explain this, market mavens.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...
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  11. #1291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Me: I should invest in Carnival.
    Thread: You're fucking insane.
    Carnival: *goes up 24%*

    Explain this, market mavens.
    How much of that is based on expectations of a bailout/received bailouts? How much is that bailout money going to last? What happens to Carnival's stock when the money runs out before the travel bans end?
    nevar forget

  12. #1292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Me: I should invest in Carnival.
    Thread: You're fucking insane.
    Carnival: *goes up 24%*

    Explain this, market mavens.
    What's the volume of OTM puts (or ITM calls) on those companies and how many market makers need short term liquidity in the stock to hedge their exposure against theta? The fed is using an infinite money cheat to stop complete freefall, most stock movements are people jostling for position when the music stops.

    In a crisis stock markets are full of market makers making bets against each other more than they are making bets on the movement of a stock.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  13. #1293
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Me: I should invest in Carnival.
    Thread: You're fucking insane.
    Carnival: *goes up 24%*

    Explain this, market mavens.
    Have you sold yet?
    meh

  14. #1294
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    production not coping with order volume
    All else aside, you actually think having more demand for a product than you can produce isn't a high-class kind of problem?
    I think he means it's a change of mindset from software production, where all scarcity is optional and deliberate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  15. #1295
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    How much of that is based on expectations of a bailout/received bailouts?
    I would say it's based mostly on the news that the Saudis now have an 8% stake in the company, which is seen by the market as an endorsement to buy, hence the lemmings.
    How much is that bailout money going to last? What happens to Carnival's stock when the money runs out before the travel bans end?
    Has Carnival even received any bailout money yet? They also just sold tens of millions of shares to raise money for general expenses.

    Not every decision has to be long-term. Here was a prime opportunity for a short-term trade.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    What's the volume of OTM puts (or ITM calls) on those companies and how many market makers need short term liquidity in the stock to hedge their exposure against theta? The fed is using an infinite money cheat to stop complete freefall, most stock movements are people jostling for position when the music stops.

    In a crisis stock markets are full of market makers making bets against each other more than they are making bets on the movement of a stock.
    I don't even bother with puts.
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Have you sold yet?
    I didn't sell because, based on everyone's reaction, I didn't buy. But if I had, I would definitely be selling today.

    Do I regret not buying? Absolutely. Am I still planning on buying cruise stocks soon? Yes.
    Last edited by Nordstern; April 6 2020 at 08:17:42 PM.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...
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  16. #1296
    Keckers's Avatar
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    My point was that the price is inflated by market fuckery and not based on long term market prospects for the future of the companies
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  17. #1297
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    production not coping with order volume
    All else aside, you actually think having more demand for a product than you can produce isn't a high-class kind of problem?
    I think he means it's a change of mindset from software production, where all scarcity is optional and deliberate.
    No, it's a per-wheel license.
    meh

  18. #1298

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    How much of that is based on expectations of a bailout/received bailouts?
    I would say it's based mostly on the news that the Saudis now have an 8% stake in the company, which is seen by the market as an endorsement to buy, hence the lemmings.
    How much is that bailout money going to last? What happens to Carnival's stock when the money runs out before the travel bans end?
    Has Carnival even received any bailout money yet? They also just sold tens of millions of shares to raise money for general expenses.

    Not every decision has to be long-term. Here was a prime opportunity for a short-term trade.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    What's the volume of OTM puts (or ITM calls) on those companies and how many market makers need short term liquidity in the stock to hedge their exposure against theta? The fed is using an infinite money cheat to stop complete freefall, most stock movements are people jostling for position when the music stops.

    In a crisis stock markets are full of market makers making bets against each other more than they are making bets on the movement of a stock.
    I don't even bother with puts.
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Have you sold yet?
    I didn't sell because, based on everyone's reaction, I didn't buy. But if I had, I would definitely be selling today.

    Do I regret not buying? Absolutely. Am I still planning on buying cruise stocks soon? Yes.
    Buy Tesla.

  19. #1299
    Paradox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    How much of that is based on expectations of a bailout/received bailouts?
    I would say it's based mostly on the news that the Saudis now have an 8% stake in the company, which is seen by the market as an endorsement to buy, hence the lemmings.
    How much is that bailout money going to last? What happens to Carnival's stock when the money runs out before the travel bans end?
    Has Carnival even received any bailout money yet? They also just sold tens of millions of shares to raise money for general expenses.

    Not every decision has to be long-term. Here was a prime opportunity for a short-term trade.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    What's the volume of OTM puts (or ITM calls) on those companies and how many market makers need short term liquidity in the stock to hedge their exposure against theta? The fed is using an infinite money cheat to stop complete freefall, most stock movements are people jostling for position when the music stops.

    In a crisis stock markets are full of market makers making bets against each other more than they are making bets on the movement of a stock.
    I don't even bother with puts.
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Have you sold yet?
    I didn't sell because, based on everyone's reaction, I didn't buy. But if I had, I would definitely be selling today.

    Do I regret not buying? Absolutely. Am I still planning on buying cruise stocks soon? Yes.
    Buy Tesla.
    The whole thing


    Poland treats me like shit and I hate them as a result of it

  20. #1300
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Buy Tesla.
    Nope.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...
    Johns Hopkins CSSE COVID-19 Dashboard

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