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Thread: The Automation Spiral (obligatory loleconomics thread v2)

  1. #3361

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoirAvlaa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    You have to take in account that lall is pmuch always lying his ass off.
    well ye he's a lawyer
    Only others have to provide proof not Lall. Its because he never watches Rogan. That is why he is always correct you see Lord Haw Haw of Internetshire.
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  2. #3362
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Since the topic of nuclear energy frequents this thread, in Finland the nuclear waste disposal facility has now applied to start operations and packaging and storing the waste in the constructed underground facility as a worlds first.
    Just to be clear, they only broke ground in May this year. While they are applying for permits and such, they are a LONG way off storing meaningful quantities.

    It's worth noting that from government mandate and funding to breaking ground took them 25 years. The Company doing this was set up in 1995 with nothing but this as its purpose and its still taken that long.

    Amusingly, the company that is building this repository has publicly stated (repeatedly) that they refuse to take nuclear waste from the competing Finnish nuclear power company's reactors. The government has made all kinds of threats but they remain at impasse.

    We are a long way from a long term scalable solution to HRW


    Just broken ground?
    In May this year, yes.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesco...h=164a29e66103

  3. #3363
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Well, I have actually been to the tunnels for the storage system years ago so the claim of just breaking ground now is pretty much false.
    Low or intermediate level waste? Short term storage? Maybe. The worlds first HIGH level ultra-long term waste (i.e. actual spent fuel not just ancillary irradiated metal) deep geological repository Onkalo broke ground in May. Just fucking google it if you dont believe me, you mongs.

    Onkalo Spent Fuel Repository and its due to be partly operational in 2023-25 if there are no delays, which in the nuclear industry there always are.

    Accusing me of lying just because randos say "urrr thats wrong" ... If you think you've visited a repository you were too dumb to realise it was just where they store the tools, cladding, reactor components etc after decommissioning, not the actual fuel that has the ultra long half lives and high radioactivity.

    At the moment ALL the spent fuel accumulated in the history of mankind, some 450,000 tonnes, is in temporary holding facilities (intermediate storage in industry parlance).

    Onkalo will store about 6,500 tonnes in total over 100 years of operation ramping up slowly, just to give an idea of the scale of the problem. The world currently produces double that a year just from existing nuclear plants.

    Keep linking videos wrongly showing the test tunnels as if they are the final facility. They arent. They dont contain HLW. The actual storage facility broke ground in May. The first HLW will be stored there when its operational, which it doesnt even have a licence to be yet.

    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/olki...r-waste-onkalo

    https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/pro...osal-facility/

    Inb4 more moron saying 'urrr noo' and linking to their favourite youtuber or podcast with uninformed bollocks.
    Last edited by Lallante; December 31 2021 at 08:19:49 PM.

  4. #3364
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    You have to take in account that lall is pmuch always lying his ass off.
    Everything I wrote in that post is correct. Just because what I say often goes against the collective narrative here doesnt mean I'm wrong; truth isnt a democracy. I work in this industry and you guys are just fanbois doing what fanbois do, but everything I've said can be easily fact checked using google, it's hardly hidden knowledge.
    Last edited by Lallante; December 31 2021 at 08:20:39 PM.

  5. #3365

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    You have to take in account that lall is pmuch always lying his ass off.
    Everything I wrote in that post is correct. Just because what I say often goes against the collective narrative here doesnt mean I'm wrong; truth isnt a democracy. I work in this industry and you guys are just fanbois doing what fanbois do, but everything I've said can be easily fact checked using google, it's hardly hidden knowledge.
    hhahahhahaha

    You dont have a mirror in the house do you?

    The biggest issue we have with you is you make big claims like in your last post saying 'its barely making ground' while the project is near completion.
    I on a regular basis say i am wrong when i am proven wrong and have no issue with that. You just dig your heels in.

    Still means i am wrong, still means you are a shitter.
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  6. #3366
    Timaios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Well, I have actually been to the tunnels for the storage system years ago so the claim of just breaking ground now is pretty much false.
    Low or intermediate level waste? Short term storage? Maybe. The worlds first HIGH level ultra-long term waste (i.e. actual spent fuel not just ancillary irradiated metal) deep geological repository Onkalo broke ground in May. Just fucking google it if you dont believe me, you mongs.

    Onkalo Spent Fuel Repository and its due to be partly operational in 2023-25 if there are no delays, which in the nuclear industry there always are.

    Accusing me of lying just because randos say "urrr thats wrong" ... If you think you've visited a repository you were too dumb to realise it was just where they store the tools, cladding, reactor components etc after decommissioning, not the actual fuel that has the ultra long half lives and high radioactivity.

    At the moment ALL the spent fuel accumulated in the history of mankind, some 450,000 tonnes, is in temporary holding facilities (intermediate storage in industry parlance).

    Onkalo will store about 6,500 tonnes in total over 100 years of operation ramping up slowly, just to give an idea of the scale of the problem. The world currently produces double that a year just from existing nuclear plants.

    Keep linking videos wrongly showing the test tunnels as if they are the final facility. They arent. They dont contain HLW. The actual storage facility broke ground in May. The first HLW will be stored there when its operational, which it doesnt even have a licence to be yet.

    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/olki...r-waste-onkalo

    https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/pro...osal-facility/

    Inb4 more moron saying 'urrr noo' and linking to their favourite youtuber or podcast with uninformed bollocks.
    I've been following this up from Finnish sources, as it's been interesting. As far as I'm aware, the fund for the repository was started in the 60's but there was no point in building the repository as the used fuel has to cool down for 30+ years first. But the facility seems to have it's construction permit already (accepted on 12th of November in 2015). They just very recently applied for the permit to put it into use (as in yesterday, it seems). The Finnish radiation and nuclear safety authority just oversees the construction with scheduled checks and investigations, even weekly if need be (in similar fashion as they conduct checks on the NPPs under construction). But Finland is of course a special case with very stable bedrock and little tectonic activity. I'm not sure how feasible similar designs are elsewhere and besides, Finland is small.

    But I think you are mixing messages up. They did not break ground in May, they have tons of tunnels ready. What they started in May is the first of the final tunnels intended to store waste, which are located approx. 500m underground. The rest is ready, at least this is how I read the press release. There's more informative releases, but they are in Finnish only. The excavation of the rest of the facilities began in 2016.

    The new NPP under construction that you mentioned was not allowed (yet) to store their waste in Onkalo is from a completely different conglomerate than the ones building Onkalo, and Onkalo was planned far before the new NPP permit was granted. It's probably also an issue of planning and little interest in paying for storage of a completely different corporation. It's probably going to be solved either by the new NPP corporation throwing more money at Onkalo or using something else.

    But I'm not sure how the other countries have planned to store the waste. If I've understood this correctly, we Finns actually mandated the NPP operators to start investing money into a fund when the first NPPs went operational in the 60's with the idea to use the fund and the proceeds to build a long-term storage once it is feasible and necessary. Some 15 years ago it started to be relevant to start planning this and then company was formed using the funds invested. Have the other countries just ran their NPPs without any requirements to invest funds for spent fuel storage and considered that maybe one day there will be a cheap solution to storing the waste? =S
    Last edited by Timaios; December 31 2021 at 09:09:38 PM.

    Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point. - Blaise Pascal, Pensées, 277

  7. #3367

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    No Timaios because you see Lord Haw Haw is working in this industry and knows best. Sorry mate you are wrong, also stop watching Rogan (for w/e reason).
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  8. #3368
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    You have to take in account that lall is pmuch always lying his ass off.
    Everything I wrote in that post is correct. Just because what I say often goes against the collective narrative here doesnt mean I'm wrong; truth isnt a democracy. I work in this industry and you guys are just fanbois doing what fanbois do, but everything I've said can be easily fact checked using google, it's hardly hidden knowledge.
    hhahahhahaha

    You dont have a mirror in the house do you?

    The biggest issue we have with you is you make big claims like in your last post saying 'its barely making ground' while the project is near completion.
    I on a regular basis say i am wrong when i am proven wrong and have no issue with that. You just dig your heels in.

    Still means i am wrong, still means you are a shitter.
    learn to read. "breaking ground" means starting construction.

  9. #3369

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    You have to take in account that lall is pmuch always lying his ass off.
    Everything I wrote in that post is correct. Just because what I say often goes against the collective narrative here doesnt mean I'm wrong; truth isnt a democracy. I work in this industry and you guys are just fanbois doing what fanbois do, but everything I've said can be easily fact checked using google, it's hardly hidden knowledge.
    hhahahhahaha

    You dont have a mirror in the house do you?

    The biggest issue we have with you is you make big claims like in your last post saying 'its barely making ground' while the project is near completion.
    I on a regular basis say i am wrong when i am proven wrong and have no issue with that. You just dig your heels in.

    Still means i am wrong, still means you are a shitter.
    learn to read. "breaking ground" means starting construction.
    Learn read i love 'Rogan' just because i like is his long form interviews.
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  10. #3370
    Meths's Avatar
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    Get a room you two

  11. #3371
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Well, I have actually been to the tunnels for the storage system years ago so the claim of just breaking ground now is pretty much false.
    Low or intermediate level waste? Short term storage? Maybe. The worlds first HIGH level ultra-long term waste (i.e. actual spent fuel not just ancillary irradiated metal) deep geological repository Onkalo broke ground in May. Just fucking google it if you dont believe me, you mongs.

    Onkalo Spent Fuel Repository and its due to be partly operational in 2023-25 if there are no delays, which in the nuclear industry there always are.

    Accusing me of lying just because randos say "urrr thats wrong" ... If you think you've visited a repository you were too dumb to realise it was just where they store the tools, cladding, reactor components etc after decommissioning, not the actual fuel that has the ultra long half lives and high radioactivity.

    At the moment ALL the spent fuel accumulated in the history of mankind, some 450,000 tonnes, is in temporary holding facilities (intermediate storage in industry parlance).

    Onkalo will store about 6,500 tonnes in total over 100 years of operation ramping up slowly, just to give an idea of the scale of the problem. The world currently produces double that a year just from existing nuclear plants.

    Keep linking videos wrongly showing the test tunnels as if they are the final facility. They arent. They dont contain HLW. The actual storage facility broke ground in May. The first HLW will be stored there when its operational, which it doesnt even have a licence to be yet.

    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/olki...r-waste-onkalo

    https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/pro...osal-facility/

    Inb4 more moron saying 'urrr noo' and linking to their favourite youtuber or podcast with uninformed bollocks.
    I've been following this up from Finnish sources, as it's been interesting. As far as I'm aware, the fund for the repository was started in the 60's but there was no point in building the repository as the used fuel has to cool down for 30+ years first. But the facility seems to have it's construction permit already (accepted on 12th of November in 2015). They just very recently applied for the permit to put it into use (as in yesterday, it seems). The Finnish radiation and nuclear safety authority just oversees the construction with scheduled checks and investigations, even weekly if need be (in similar fashion as they conduct checks on the NPPs under construction). But Finland is of course a special case with very stable bedrock and little tectonic activity. I'm not sure how feasible similar designs are elsewhere and besides, Finland is small.

    But I think you are mixing messages up. They did not break ground in May, they have tons of tunnels ready. What they started in May is the first of the final tunnels intended to store waste, which are located approx. 500m underground. The rest is ready, at least this is how I read the press release. There's more informative releases, but they are in Finnish only. The excavation of the rest of the facilities began in 2016.

    The new NPP under construction that you mentioned was not allowed (yet) to store their waste in Onkalo is from a completely different conglomerate than the ones building Onkalo, and Onkalo was planned far before the new NPP permit was granted. It's probably also an issue of planning and little interest in paying for storage of a completely different corporation. It's probably going to be solved either by the new NPP corporation throwing more money at Onkalo or using something else.

    But I'm not sure how the other countries have planned to store the waste. If I've understood this correctly, we Finns actually mandated the NPP operators to start investing money into a fund when the first NPPs went operational in the 60's with the idea to use the fund and the proceeds to build a long-term storage once it is feasible and necessary. Some 15 years ago it started to be relevant to start planning this and then company was formed using the funds invested. Have the other countries just ran their NPPs without any requirements to invest funds for spent fuel storage and considered that maybe one day there will be a cheap solution to storing the waste? =S
    Before may they had the access tunnels and the test storage facility. In May they started the actually started the actual storage facility. We are saying the same thing. Regardless: no high level waste can be stored there until the current construction process is completed, in 2023-5.

    In the UK we have required NPPs from start of operation to pay into their own decommissioning fund including provision for contribution to a future (but unknown) government owned waste depository. It sits in a trust for 60+ years accumulating. We only stared doing this in the 90s though so the taxpayer has to pick up the huge bills associated with the earlier plants decomissioning,.

  12. #3372

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Well, I have actually been to the tunnels for the storage system years ago so the claim of just breaking ground now is pretty much false.
    Low or intermediate level waste? Short term storage? Maybe. The worlds first HIGH level ultra-long term waste (i.e. actual spent fuel not just ancillary irradiated metal) deep geological repository Onkalo broke ground in May. Just fucking google it if you dont believe me, you mongs.

    Onkalo Spent Fuel Repository and its due to be partly operational in 2023-25 if there are no delays, which in the nuclear industry there always are.

    Accusing me of lying just because randos say "urrr thats wrong" ... If you think you've visited a repository you were too dumb to realise it was just where they store the tools, cladding, reactor components etc after decommissioning, not the actual fuel that has the ultra long half lives and high radioactivity.

    At the moment ALL the spent fuel accumulated in the history of mankind, some 450,000 tonnes, is in temporary holding facilities (intermediate storage in industry parlance).

    Onkalo will store about 6,500 tonnes in total over 100 years of operation ramping up slowly, just to give an idea of the scale of the problem. The world currently produces double that a year just from existing nuclear plants.

    Keep linking videos wrongly showing the test tunnels as if they are the final facility. They arent. They dont contain HLW. The actual storage facility broke ground in May. The first HLW will be stored there when its operational, which it doesnt even have a licence to be yet.

    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/olki...r-waste-onkalo

    https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/pro...osal-facility/

    Inb4 more moron saying 'urrr noo' and linking to their favourite youtuber or podcast with uninformed bollocks.
    I've been following this up from Finnish sources, as it's been interesting. As far as I'm aware, the fund for the repository was started in the 60's but there was no point in building the repository as the used fuel has to cool down for 30+ years first. But the facility seems to have it's construction permit already (accepted on 12th of November in 2015). They just very recently applied for the permit to put it into use (as in yesterday, it seems). The Finnish radiation and nuclear safety authority just oversees the construction with scheduled checks and investigations, even weekly if need be (in similar fashion as they conduct checks on the NPPs under construction). But Finland is of course a special case with very stable bedrock and little tectonic activity. I'm not sure how feasible similar designs are elsewhere and besides, Finland is small.

    But I think you are mixing messages up. They did not break ground in May, they have tons of tunnels ready. What they started in May is the first of the final tunnels intended to store waste, which are located approx. 500m underground. The rest is ready, at least this is how I read the press release. There's more informative releases, but they are in Finnish only. The excavation of the rest of the facilities began in 2016.

    The new NPP under construction that you mentioned was not allowed (yet) to store their waste in Onkalo is from a completely different conglomerate than the ones building Onkalo, and Onkalo was planned far before the new NPP permit was granted. It's probably also an issue of planning and little interest in paying for storage of a completely different corporation. It's probably going to be solved either by the new NPP corporation throwing more money at Onkalo or using something else.

    But I'm not sure how the other countries have planned to store the waste. If I've understood this correctly, we Finns actually mandated the NPP operators to start investing money into a fund when the first NPPs went operational in the 60's with the idea to use the fund and the proceeds to build a long-term storage once it is feasible and necessary. Some 15 years ago it started to be relevant to start planning this and then company was formed using the funds invested. Have the other countries just ran their NPPs without any requirements to invest funds for spent fuel storage and considered that maybe one day there will be a cheap solution to storing the waste? =S
    Before may they had the access tunnels and the test storage facility. In May they started the actually started the actual storage facility. We are saying the same thing. Regardless: no high level waste can be stored there until the current construction process is completed, in 2023-5.

    In the UK we have required NPPs from start of operation to pay into their own decommissioning fund including provision for contribution to a future (but unknown) government owned waste depository. It sits in a trust for 60+ years accumulating. We only stared doing this in the 90s though so the taxpayer has to pick up the huge bills associated with the earlier plants decomissioning,.
    Ok so multi-decade project just started but done in 1 to 3 years, gotcha.
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  13. #3373
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Well, I have actually been to the tunnels for the storage system years ago so the claim of just breaking ground now is pretty much false.
    Low or intermediate level waste? Short term storage? Maybe. The worlds first HIGH level ultra-long term waste (i.e. actual spent fuel not just ancillary irradiated metal) deep geological repository Onkalo broke ground in May. Just fucking google it if you dont believe me, you mongs.

    Onkalo Spent Fuel Repository and its due to be partly operational in 2023-25 if there are no delays, which in the nuclear industry there always are.

    Accusing me of lying just because randos say "urrr thats wrong" ... If you think you've visited a repository you were too dumb to realise it was just where they store the tools, cladding, reactor components etc after decommissioning, not the actual fuel that has the ultra long half lives and high radioactivity.

    At the moment ALL the spent fuel accumulated in the history of mankind, some 450,000 tonnes, is in temporary holding facilities (intermediate storage in industry parlance).

    Onkalo will store about 6,500 tonnes in total over 100 years of operation ramping up slowly, just to give an idea of the scale of the problem. The world currently produces double that a year just from existing nuclear plants.

    Keep linking videos wrongly showing the test tunnels as if they are the final facility. They arent. They dont contain HLW. The actual storage facility broke ground in May. The first HLW will be stored there when its operational, which it doesnt even have a licence to be yet.

    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/olki...r-waste-onkalo

    https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/pro...osal-facility/

    Inb4 more moron saying 'urrr noo' and linking to their favourite youtuber or podcast with uninformed bollocks.
    I've been following this up from Finnish sources, as it's been interesting. As far as I'm aware, the fund for the repository was started in the 60's but there was no point in building the repository as the used fuel has to cool down for 30+ years first. But the facility seems to have it's construction permit already (accepted on 12th of November in 2015). They just very recently applied for the permit to put it into use (as in yesterday, it seems). The Finnish radiation and nuclear safety authority just oversees the construction with scheduled checks and investigations, even weekly if need be (in similar fashion as they conduct checks on the NPPs under construction). But Finland is of course a special case with very stable bedrock and little tectonic activity. I'm not sure how feasible similar designs are elsewhere and besides, Finland is small.

    But I think you are mixing messages up. They did not break ground in May, they have tons of tunnels ready. What they started in May is the first of the final tunnels intended to store waste, which are located approx. 500m underground. The rest is ready, at least this is how I read the press release. There's more informative releases, but they are in Finnish only. The excavation of the rest of the facilities began in 2016.

    The new NPP under construction that you mentioned was not allowed (yet) to store their waste in Onkalo is from a completely different conglomerate than the ones building Onkalo, and Onkalo was planned far before the new NPP permit was granted. It's probably also an issue of planning and little interest in paying for storage of a completely different corporation. It's probably going to be solved either by the new NPP corporation throwing more money at Onkalo or using something else.

    But I'm not sure how the other countries have planned to store the waste. If I've understood this correctly, we Finns actually mandated the NPP operators to start investing money into a fund when the first NPPs went operational in the 60's with the idea to use the fund and the proceeds to build a long-term storage once it is feasible and necessary. Some 15 years ago it started to be relevant to start planning this and then company was formed using the funds invested. Have the other countries just ran their NPPs without any requirements to invest funds for spent fuel storage and considered that maybe one day there will be a cheap solution to storing the waste? =S
    Before may they had the access tunnels and the test storage facility. In May they started the actually started the actual storage facility. We are saying the same thing. Regardless: no high level waste can be stored there until the current construction process is completed, in 2023-5.

    In the UK we have required NPPs from start of operation to pay into their own decommissioning fund including provision for contribution to a future (but unknown) government owned waste depository. It sits in a trust for 60+ years accumulating. We only stared doing this in the 90s though so the taxpayer has to pick up the huge bills associated with the earlier plants decomissioning,.
    Ok so multi-decade project just started but done in 1 to 3 years, gotcha.
    Its started in 1995. Most of the work is finding a suitable site, surveying the geology and safety profile sufficiently thoroughly with test tunnels and getting consents needed to build there, all of which happen before 'breaking ground'. The last 2 to 4 years are actual construction ('breaking ground') which is relatively straight forward civil engineering. That said I still expect them to fuck it up somehow and end up delayed.

    The equivalent US project at Yukka mountain faired even worse. Site selected and given gov support in 1987, it finally got funded by congress 5 years later, only for the further funding to be revoked in 2011 after nearly 20 years of work and all work to finally be stopped in 2016/17. Attempts to get further funding in 2018+ have been rejected by congress. 20 years of work AFTER site selection, over $10bn spent, and nothing to show for it. No high level waste will be stored there in the forseeable future and none is planned to be, though as at Onkalo they had drilled an access tunnel and many test branches.
    Last edited by Lallante; January 1 2022 at 07:13:47 PM.

  14. #3374

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Well, I have actually been to the tunnels for the storage system years ago so the claim of just breaking ground now is pretty much false.
    Low or intermediate level waste? Short term storage? Maybe. The worlds first HIGH level ultra-long term waste (i.e. actual spent fuel not just ancillary irradiated metal) deep geological repository Onkalo broke ground in May. Just fucking google it if you dont believe me, you mongs.

    Onkalo Spent Fuel Repository and its due to be partly operational in 2023-25 if there are no delays, which in the nuclear industry there always are.

    Accusing me of lying just because randos say "urrr thats wrong" ... If you think you've visited a repository you were too dumb to realise it was just where they store the tools, cladding, reactor components etc after decommissioning, not the actual fuel that has the ultra long half lives and high radioactivity.

    At the moment ALL the spent fuel accumulated in the history of mankind, some 450,000 tonnes, is in temporary holding facilities (intermediate storage in industry parlance).

    Onkalo will store about 6,500 tonnes in total over 100 years of operation ramping up slowly, just to give an idea of the scale of the problem. The world currently produces double that a year just from existing nuclear plants.

    Keep linking videos wrongly showing the test tunnels as if they are the final facility. They arent. They dont contain HLW. The actual storage facility broke ground in May. The first HLW will be stored there when its operational, which it doesnt even have a licence to be yet.

    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/olki...r-waste-onkalo

    https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/pro...osal-facility/

    Inb4 more moron saying 'urrr noo' and linking to their favourite youtuber or podcast with uninformed bollocks.
    I've been following this up from Finnish sources, as it's been interesting. As far as I'm aware, the fund for the repository was started in the 60's but there was no point in building the repository as the used fuel has to cool down for 30+ years first. But the facility seems to have it's construction permit already (accepted on 12th of November in 2015). They just very recently applied for the permit to put it into use (as in yesterday, it seems). The Finnish radiation and nuclear safety authority just oversees the construction with scheduled checks and investigations, even weekly if need be (in similar fashion as they conduct checks on the NPPs under construction). But Finland is of course a special case with very stable bedrock and little tectonic activity. I'm not sure how feasible similar designs are elsewhere and besides, Finland is small.

    But I think you are mixing messages up. They did not break ground in May, they have tons of tunnels ready. What they started in May is the first of the final tunnels intended to store waste, which are located approx. 500m underground. The rest is ready, at least this is how I read the press release. There's more informative releases, but they are in Finnish only. The excavation of the rest of the facilities began in 2016.

    The new NPP under construction that you mentioned was not allowed (yet) to store their waste in Onkalo is from a completely different conglomerate than the ones building Onkalo, and Onkalo was planned far before the new NPP permit was granted. It's probably also an issue of planning and little interest in paying for storage of a completely different corporation. It's probably going to be solved either by the new NPP corporation throwing more money at Onkalo or using something else.

    But I'm not sure how the other countries have planned to store the waste. If I've understood this correctly, we Finns actually mandated the NPP operators to start investing money into a fund when the first NPPs went operational in the 60's with the idea to use the fund and the proceeds to build a long-term storage once it is feasible and necessary. Some 15 years ago it started to be relevant to start planning this and then company was formed using the funds invested. Have the other countries just ran their NPPs without any requirements to invest funds for spent fuel storage and considered that maybe one day there will be a cheap solution to storing the waste? =S
    Before may they had the access tunnels and the test storage facility. In May they started the actually started the actual storage facility. We are saying the same thing. Regardless: no high level waste can be stored there until the current construction process is completed, in 2023-5.

    In the UK we have required NPPs from start of operation to pay into their own decommissioning fund including provision for contribution to a future (but unknown) government owned waste depository. It sits in a trust for 60+ years accumulating. We only stared doing this in the 90s though so the taxpayer has to pick up the huge bills associated with the earlier plants decomissioning,.
    Ok so multi-decade project just started but done in 1 to 3 years, gotcha.
    Its started in 1995. Most of the work is finding a suitable site, surveying the geology and safety profile sufficiently thoroughly with test tunnels and getting consents needed to build there, all of which happen before 'breaking ground'. The last 2 to 4 years are actual construction ('breaking ground') which is relatively straight forward civil engineering. That said I still expect them to fuck it up somehow and end up delayed.

    The equivalent US project at Yukka mountain faired even worse. Site selected and given gov support in 1987, it finally got funded by congress 5 years later, only for the further funding to be revoked in 2011 after nearly 20 years of work and all work to finally be stopped in 2016/17. Attempts to get further funding in 2018+ have been rejected by congress. 20 years of work AFTER site selection, over $10bn spent, and nothing to show for it. No high level waste will be stored there in the forseeable future and none is planned to be, though as at Onkalo they had drilled an access tunnel and many test branches.
    Holy shit bruv its your work? A fukin simple google search proves you wrong. I can copy pasta wiki and i know wiki is not gospel but you are wrong on so many points. Half your reply is also not about what we are talking about.
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  15. #3375
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    This is boring. I post detailed facts, you say 'ur wrong bruv'. People can make up their own mind.

  16. #3376
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    This is boring. I post detailed facts, you say 'ur wrong bruv'. People can make up their own mind.
    yeah didn't read any of that but I've made up my mind and you're wrong

  17. #3377
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    Last edited by NoirAvlaa; January 2 2022 at 08:18:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Also that didn't sound like abloo bloo to me, PM me and we can agree on a meeting spot and settle this with queensberry rules, that's a serious offer btw. I've been a member of this community since 2005 and i've never met a more toxic individual.

  18. #3378
    Super Chillerator Global Moderator teds :D's Avatar
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    2022 off to a very strong start

  19. #3379

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    Noir for best post of 2022 so far
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  20. #3380
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Meme stocks might be making a comeback. Seeing on uptick in posts about Gamestop, GME is up 23% since Friday's low.

    My own company is up 13% over the same time frame. Is this the bottom or a dead cat bounce?
    Last edited by Nordstern; January 31 2022 at 11:34:18 PM.
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