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Thread: The Automation Spiral (obligatory loleconomics thread v2)

  1. #241
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    There's a shit load of tech innovation in agriculture. Some of the better bits are crop monitoring technologies that allow efficient resource distribution and pesticide targeting without coating everything in sight with poison.

    Oddly enough (not really) it seems to be driven by rising living costs driving labour away from shit paying agriculture work. Probably why California is leading the charge with investment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  2. #242
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    GOOD MORNING.
    https://futurism.com/googles-machine...licate-itself/
    GOOGLE’S AUTOML

    Back in May, Google revealed its AutoML project; artificial intelligence (AI) designed to help them create other AIs. Now, Google has announced that AutoML has beaten the human AI engineers at their own game by building machine-learning software that’s more efficient and powerful than the best human-designed systems.

    An AutoML system recently broke a record for categorizing images by their content, scoring 82 percent. While that’s a relatively simple task, AutoML also beat the human-built system at a more complex task integral to autonomous robots and augmented reality: marking the location of multiple objects in an image. For that task, AutoML scored 43 percent versus the human-built system’s 39 percent.

    These results are meaningful because even at Google, few people have the requisite expertise to build next generation AI systems. It takes a rarified skill set to automate this area, but once it is achieved, it will change the industry. “Today these are handcrafted by machine learning scientists and literally only a few thousands of scientists around the world can do this,” WIRED reports Google CEO Sundar Pichai said. “We want to enable hundreds of thousands of developers to be able to do it.”

  3. #243
    Donor Spawinte's Avatar
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    So if they use AutoML to create incrementally better iterations of itself...

  4. #244

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spawinte View Post
    So if they use AutoML to create incrementally better iterations of itself...
    Singularity

  5. #245
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    OK, before this conversation goes much further, does everyone actually understand what ML is, and how it works, and most importantly, what it isn't?

    Or does professor knaar have to provide a short intro as to why this DOESN'T mean hunter-killer robots.
    meh

  6. #246

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    OK, before this conversation goes much further, does everyone actually understand what ML is, and how it works, and most importantly, what it isn't?

    Or does professor knaar have to provide a short intro as to why this DOESN'T mean hunter-killer robots.
    Of course it doesn't. We already have those.

  7. #247
    Donor Spawinte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    OK, before this conversation goes much further, does everyone actually understand what ML is, and how it works, and most importantly, what it isn't?

    Or does professor knaar have to provide a short intro as to why this DOESN'T mean hunter-killer robots.
    It is too late. I have already jumped to a questionable conclusion and I'm sticking with it.

  8. #248
    Movember 2012 I Legionnaire's Avatar
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    Tangentially related, this echoes some of the frustrations I've seen in my short tenure. I'd be curious to see if engineers doing things that aren't webdev and immediately business-related like robotics or firmware dev feel the same way.



    McSoftware

  9. #249
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Legionnaire View Post
    Tangentially related, this echoes some of the frustrations I've seen in my short tenure. I'd be curious to see if engineers doing things that aren't webdev and immediately business-related like robotics or firmware dev feel the same way.



    McSoftware
    Smaller, smarter teams.

    You don't need a room full of MIT grads writing Angular code to build an app. If you happen to find you have a room full of MIT grads, you should leverage that shit.
    meh

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by I Legionnaire View Post
    Tangentially related, this echoes some of the frustrations I've seen in my short tenure. I'd be curious to see if engineers doing things that aren't webdev and immediately business-related like robotics or firmware dev feel the same way.



    McSoftware
    Smaller, smarter teams.

    You don't need a room full of MIT grads writing Angular code to build an app. If you happen to find you have a room full of MIT grads, you should leverage that shit.
    First you give them job titles that sound like they're writing SaaS products, then you can leverage them properly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  11. #251
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    RIP Taxi Drivers.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKBN1D72BU
    SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Alphabet Inc’s Waymo will launch a ride-hailing service with no human behind the steering wheel and has been testing the fully self-driving cars on public roads in Arizona, Chief Executive John Krafcik said on Tuesday.

    The test without a human in the driver’s seat is a first in the United States as large tech companies, big automakers and well-funded startups race to develop fully autonomous cars.

    While self-driving car companies test their vehicles in public, they routinely have a human in the driver’s seat ready to take over if the technology fails.

    Waymo said members of the public will begin riding in its fleet of Fiat Chrysler Pacifica minivans without human drivers in a test run of the service in the next few months in certain areas of Phoenix, Arizona, which has dry, predictable weather. Developers are still grappling with vehicle performance in snow or heavy rain.

    Members of the public taking part in the company’s trial in Phoenix will be its first customers, using a ride-hailing app.

    At first, those passengers will be accompanied in the back seat by a Waymo employee, but eventually they will travel alone, although they will be able to hit a button to stop the car.

    It will roll out the service to the wider public at a later date, although it did not say when.

    The service will be free at first, but Waymo expects at some point to start charging for rides, a potential way to earn revenue to help offset the steep costs involved in developing the technology.

    The state of Arizona has no restrictions on self-driving cars, unlike California and some other states.

    “Because we see so much potential in shared mobility, the first way people will get to experience Waymo’s fully self-driving technology will be as a driverless service,” Krafcik said in prepared remarks after announcing the launch in Lisbon.

    The U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration did not immediately comment on Tuesday but said in September last year that conventionally designed vehicles that can be operated autonomously faced no specific federal legal barrier.

    With over eight years of testing under its belt, Waymo is a pioneer of self-driving technology and has tested its system in six states, the latest being Michigan.

    Last week, U.S. auto retailer AutoNation Inc announced a multiyear partnership for vehicle maintenance and repairs for Waymo’s self-driving car operations.

    General Motors Co, which acquired autonomous driving start-up Cruise Automation for a reported $1 billion last year, has signaled its intent to test a robotaxi service in the near future.

    GM Chief Executive Mary Barra said in October the company aims to take the driver out of its self-driving vehicles “in quarters, not years.” The carmaker’s goal for its Cruise self-driving car unit is to “safely develop and deploy self-driving cars at scale” in dense, urban environments, not suburbs.

  12. #252
    Keckers's Avatar
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    I can't wait to see how neoliberalism deals with mass unemployment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I can't wait to see how neoliberalism deals with mass unemployment.
    "fuck the poor"

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Legionnaire View Post
    Tangentially related, this echoes some of the frustrations I've seen in my short tenure. I'd be curious to see if engineers doing things that aren't webdev and immediately business-related like robotics or firmware dev feel the same way.



    McSoftware
    welcome to the real world, where the vast majority of us aren't there because we want to, but because our meal-ticket depends upon it, moreover faffing off doing something else does not mean the individual is not "working", i often shitposted on failheap while at work, waiting for things to finish and because i needed a break from looking into a particular problem.

    that write-up has it's problems, first off taylorism is basically woo. repeated studies indicate that people's performance in non-trivial tasks actually drop off somewhat as you add or increase economic incentives to do that task, it also means employees are incentive to chase the metrics rather than the objective itself. the actual key to high productivity in non trivial-non mechanical is employee engagement and not setting up reward-feedback loops, the latter only works for trivial tasks, you know, the shit robots are increasingly taking care of, the article tries to make this very argument without grasping the powerful tools provided by the better part of 20 years of social studies on this subject has produced, the author is actually presenting a weaker argument than he could.

    but you see it doesn't matter, companies aren't going for the taylorism because they are worried about productivity but because they want to limit employee bargaining power, by turning workers into replaceable cogs you also rob the workers of the ability to leverage the value they create into concessions in terms of wages and other benefits, instead you can simply demand that the education system produces more engineers to compensate for the lower productivity while also driving down wages as hard as possible.

    sidenote, citing the decline of labour unions as a indication that people are "far too competitive to cooperate" is silly, they first arose in the skilled day-labourer sector where competition was much much fiercer than it is today. labour unions did not spring from the ether and their decline is caused by a combination of factors, some external and some internal to the labour union model, simply put the labour movement needs to globalize, but that is a separate rant in and of itself, suffice to say the IWW had the right idea in 1905, they where just a bit early.

    it's always amusing to watch techies re-invent aspects of socialism though, the logical end-point of what he's calling for is the democratic workplace, a key tenet in socialism.

    edit : i also realise i am late, but it was a good read and i missed it when it was posted.


    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I can't wait to see how neoliberalism deals with mass unemployment.
    you dont need to wait, workfare is already here, along with a host of means tested programs specifically engineered to cause mental breakdowns.

    look at the UK's unemployment system, now add a sprinkling of ever increasing sanction severity and you have the neoliberal solution, you will work, or you will eventually be driven to suicide and homelessness.
    Last edited by Liare; November 8 2017 at 11:12:09 AM.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  15. #255
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I can't wait to see how neoliberalism deals with mass unemployment.
    you dont need to wait, workfare is already here, along with a host of means tested programs specifically engineered to cause mental breakdowns.

    look at the UK's unemployment system, now add a sprinkling of ever increasing sanction severity and you have the neoliberal solution, you will work, or you will eventually be driven to suicide and homelessness.
    It is yet to hit critical mass. The victims currently are the same as those who were stamped on by Thatcher, there's a level of emotional fatigue there. When it starts to hit towns and cities outside of Yorkshire/Lancashire/Lincolnshire that's when shit will get real.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  16. #256
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I can't wait to see how neoliberalism deals with mass unemployment.
    you dont need to wait, workfare is already here, along with a host of means tested programs specifically engineered to cause mental breakdowns.

    look at the UK's unemployment system, now add a sprinkling of ever increasing sanction severity and you have the neoliberal solution, you will work, or you will eventually be driven to suicide and homelessness.
    It is yet to hit critical mass. The victims currently are the same as those who were stamped on by Thatcher, there's a level of emotional fatigue there. When it starts to hit towns and cities outside of Yorkshire/Lancashire/Lincolnshire that's when shit will get real.
    the system is in place, Brexit will take care of the rest.

    i wonder if we're going to get boat-refugees crossing the north sea.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  17. #257
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I can't wait to see how neoliberalism deals with mass unemployment.
    I donít think we can build plastics that will survive Coober Pedy temps yet, so mineral extraction is still viable for a while.

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