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Thread: (Germany über alles) Superior EU Politics Thread

  1. #2141
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    "why didn't they follow the system?" asked the person who the system is expressly designed to privilege to the people who the system is designed to shit on.

    Yeah it's a mystery beyond the ken of mankind. (No one is interested in what womankind think)

    Or slavkind, so shut up smarnca.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  2. #2142
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Where were those women with their allegations in the previous years?
    At a guess?

    Originally they were shamed/scared into not reporting it.
    As young women they tried to forget about it and get on with their lives.
    As older women they gave up being able to do anything about it because the statute of limitations had passed.

    Now, they see their abuser about to achieve one of the highest levels of power in their country. They can't actually take him to court (gotta love that statute of limitations), but have decided the man responsible for the nightmare of their teenage years shouldn't be given power over the laws protecting their own teenage children.
    Serious question Nich: Does the mass decision to not report (for any and all of the reasons stated) not in part enable the culture of sexual assault?

    Is "nothing will happen so why bother" not a self-fullfilling prophesy?

    Is an emphasis on "Report, report, report!" not a key component of fighting the culture of abuse?
    You tell me how friendly the 80s where to women who said the preppy future lawyer with his rich parents was a creepy piece of shit? I was there, I know exacly how she would have been treated without literally others catching him in the act of rape.

    There has been a major shift in woman not being required to deal with rapey little fucktards anymore, and so you are going to see, quite possibly a lot more, older accusations becasue the shitfucks can't hide behind the old boys club anymore.
    Nothing you wrote is incorrect. The 80's (and all the eras before the 80's, and the 90's and 2000's too) were exactly as you say. Yes, she would have been treated poorly, there is no question whatsoever.

    With that said, that does not address the question. Would it have been hard for her, yes. Would it have been hard for the millions of other victims, yes.

    But if those million victims had all come forward, instead of so many not, would things be better/different today?

    Because it's pretty obvious that feeling shame and not reporting a crime in fact does and did enable abusers to abuse. No one victim is at fault, and this is not victim blaming. This is a macro-level issue, not micro-level.

    And the reason i raise it is because the messaging I keep hearing repeated too often seems to skip right over "shit, report it if something happens, don't feel shame, there is no shame here you're a victim, report it!"

    The point is to get more people to report it asap, to get more abusers under investigation and hopefully prosecuted if they did it, and to end what looks like a culture that accepts abuse.

    The way this issue is communicated going forward is just as vital as how we address concerns from the past.


  3. #2143
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatFreddy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post

    C. You're not Nich.
    I have no words

    You also seem to lack a few




    Since you tried to namedrop, what are your opinions on other well-known philosophers, such as Rene Thesecarts (and his theory on existential Walmartism), Sokratos (who inspired the videogame) and Platin (after which the metal was ultimately named) ?


    and a related recommended watch

    I have no idea what you're talking about, tbqh.

    Nich = Nicholai Pestot, the poster whose opinion I was looking to get.


  4. #2144
    Alex Caine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FatFreddy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post

    C. You're not Nich.
    I have no words

    You also seem to lack a few




    Since you tried to namedrop, what are your opinions on other well-known philosophers, such as Rene Thesecarts (and his theory on existential Walmartism), Sokratos (who inspired the videogame) and Platin (after which the metal was ultimately named) ?


    and a related recommended watch

    I have no idea what you're talking about, tbqh.

    Nich = Nicholai Pestot, the poster whose opinion I was looking to get.
    Lol, swing and a miss by Freddy there tbh

  5. #2145
    GeromeDoutrande's Avatar
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    British spies 'hacked into Belgian telecoms firm on ministers' orders'
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-claims-report

  6. #2146
    Timaios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Where were those women with their allegations in the previous years?
    At a guess?

    Originally they were shamed/scared into not reporting it.
    As young women they tried to forget about it and get on with their lives.
    As older women they gave up being able to do anything about it because the statute of limitations had passed.

    Now, they see their abuser about to achieve one of the highest levels of power in their country. They can't actually take him to court (gotta love that statute of limitations), but have decided the man responsible for the nightmare of their teenage years shouldn't be given power over the laws protecting their own teenage children.
    Serious question Nich: Does the mass decision to not report (for any and all of the reasons stated) not in part enable the culture of sexual assault?

    Is "nothing will happen so why bother" not a self-fullfilling prophesy?

    Is an emphasis on "Report, report, report!" not a key component of fighting the culture of abuse?
    You tell me how friendly the 80s where to women who said the preppy future lawyer with his rich parents was a creepy piece of shit? I was there, I know exacly how she would have been treated without literally others catching him in the act of rape.

    There has been a major shift in woman not being required to deal with rapey little fucktards anymore, and so you are going to see, quite possibly a lot more, older accusations becasue the shitfucks can't hide behind the old boys club anymore.
    Nothing you wrote is incorrect. The 80's (and all the eras before the 80's, and the 90's and 2000's too) were exactly as you say. Yes, she would have been treated poorly, there is no question whatsoever.

    With that said, that does not address the question. Would it have been hard for her, yes. Would it have been hard for the millions of other victims, yes.

    But if those million victims had all come forward, instead of so many not, would things be better/different today?

    Because it's pretty obvious that feeling shame and not reporting a crime in fact does and did enable abusers to abuse. No one victim is at fault, and this is not victim blaming. This is a macro-level issue, not micro-level.

    And the reason i raise it is because the messaging I keep hearing repeated too often seems to skip right over "shit, report it if something happens, don't feel shame, there is no shame here you're a victim, report it!"

    The point is to get more people to report it asap, to get more abusers under investigation and hopefully prosecuted if they did it, and to end what looks like a culture that accepts abuse.

    The way this issue is communicated going forward is just as vital as how we address concerns from the past.
    The issue is that the majority of the American public does not want to support such policies or changes in the society that would enable victims of sexual abuse to easily come forward immediately after they have been assaulted and protect them from threats / victim blaming / etc. While your viewpoint is laudable and fine in the perfect world, it's not currently feasible. Until the majority of the population supports such an approach, nothing will change.

    (Notice the reference?)

    Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point. - Blaise Pascal, Pensées, 277

  7. #2147
    FatFreddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FatFreddy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post

    C. You're not Nich.
    I have no words

    You also seem to lack a few




    Since you tried to namedrop, what are your opinions on other well-known philosophers, such as Rene Thesecarts (and his theory on existential Walmartism), Sokratos (who inspired the videogame) and Platin (after which the metal was ultimately named) ?


    and a related recommended watch

    I have no idea what you're talking about, tbqh.

    Nich = Nicholai Pestot, the poster whose opinion I was looking to get.
    Lol, swing and a miss by Freddy there tbh
    Karmic shot in the knee, trying to pseudointellectually talk down on someone the internet on a knee-jerk reflex while being both too sure and too full of myself. I'll have to eat this one no question.

    how do I delete all this
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot
    Pastry.. That the best you can do?
    Quote Originally Posted by NotXenosis View Post

    M8, i have discussions that spam multiple accounts, you aren't even on my level

  8. #2148
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Where were those women with their allegations in the previous years?
    At a guess?

    Originally they were shamed/scared into not reporting it.
    As young women they tried to forget about it and get on with their lives.
    As older women they gave up being able to do anything about it because the statute of limitations had passed.

    Now, they see their abuser about to achieve one of the highest levels of power in their country. They can't actually take him to court (gotta love that statute of limitations), but have decided the man responsible for the nightmare of their teenage years shouldn't be given power over the laws protecting their own teenage children.
    Serious question Nich: Does the mass decision to not report (for any and all of the reasons stated) not in part enable the culture of sexual assault?

    Is "nothing will happen so why bother" not a self-fullfilling prophesy?

    Is an emphasis on "Report, report, report!" not a key component of fighting the culture of abuse?
    You tell me how friendly the 80s where to women who said the preppy future lawyer with his rich parents was a creepy piece of shit? I was there, I know exacly how she would have been treated without literally others catching him in the act of rape.

    There has been a major shift in woman not being required to deal with rapey little fucktards anymore, and so you are going to see, quite possibly a lot more, older accusations becasue the shitfucks can't hide behind the old boys club anymore.
    Nothing you wrote is incorrect. The 80's (and all the eras before the 80's, and the 90's and 2000's too) were exactly as you say. Yes, she would have been treated poorly, there is no question whatsoever.

    With that said, that does not address the question. Would it have been hard for her, yes. Would it have been hard for the millions of other victims, yes.

    But if those million victims had all come forward, instead of so many not, would things be better/different today?

    Because it's pretty obvious that feeling shame and not reporting a crime in fact does and did enable abusers to abuse. No one victim is at fault, and this is not victim blaming. This is a macro-level issue, not micro-level.

    And the reason i raise it is because the messaging I keep hearing repeated too often seems to skip right over "shit, report it if something happens, don't feel shame, there is no shame here you're a victim, report it!"

    The point is to get more people to report it asap, to get more abusers under investigation and hopefully prosecuted if they did it, and to end what looks like a culture that accepts abuse.

    The way this issue is communicated going forward is just as vital as how we address concerns from the past.
    The thing is I know exactly how poorly women where treated then, and I personally have played boyfriend to female friends more than once (the joys of being 6’4”) so some little sick bag would stop trying to shove his hand up their skirt. I’m personally glad it’s changed. As I said. I know how bad and prevalent it has been in the past. It should now just become the thing woman are completely happy reporting, loudly as it happens and no more pressuring or creepy power imbalances will be acceptable.

    As to the “well he was seventeen, etc” excuses. Well so fucking what. I didn’t try rape a
    Girl when I was seventeen. He should be held accountable now. Especially because it sounds like this wasn’t exactly a once off thing.

  9. #2149
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    The thing is I know exactly how poorly women where treated then, and I personally have played boyfriend to female friends more than once (the joys of being 6’4”) so some little sick bag would stop trying to shove his hand up their skirt. I’m personally glad it’s changed.
    You and me both. Also, nice to see another tall man on the forum, I'm 6'5" myself (well, closer to 6'4" as age and weight starts to shrink me, lol!).

    Been there, done that, on the having to be the defender a few times from aggressive shitstains who didn't want to take no for an answer.

    It should now just become the thing woman are completely happy reporting, loudly as it happens and no more pressuring or creepy power imbalances will be acceptable.
    EXACTLY!

    As to the “well he was seventeen, etc” excuses. Well so fucking what. I didn’t try rape a Girl when I was seventeen. He should be held accountable now. Especially because it sounds like this wasn’t exactly a once off thing.
    Which was the entire reason I said Prof. Ford should contact the MD police and report it, and make her case for pressing legit criminal charges.

    The calls for FBI Investigation are political, the FBI does not prosecute local jurisdictional cases like this. Maryland, and the local jurisdiction it occured in, do, and there is no statute of limitations.

    A police investigation should happen, and charges should be filed if the evidence warrants.


  10. #2150

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Where were those women with their allegations in the previous years?
    At a guess?

    Originally they were shamed/scared into not reporting it.
    As young women they tried to forget about it and get on with their lives.
    As older women they gave up being able to do anything about it because the statute of limitations had passed.

    Now, they see their abuser about to achieve one of the highest levels of power in their country. They can't actually take him to court (gotta love that statute of limitations), but have decided the man responsible for the nightmare of their teenage years shouldn't be given power over the laws protecting their own teenage children.
    Serious question Nich: Does the mass decision to not report (for any and all of the reasons stated) not in part enable the culture of sexual assault?

    Is "nothing will happen so why bother" not a self-fullfilling prophesy?

    Is an emphasis on "Report, report, report!" not a key component of fighting the culture of abuse?
    I'm not really sure how those questions relate to why I find it believable that the media attention around the guy would prompt previously silent victims to come forward, but I'll humour you to see where this goes:

    Yes.
    Yes.
    Yes.

    The emphasis on "Report, report, report" exists because the natural inclination was for young women to not report it when the abuser was wealthy, powerful, connected or respected. If that were not the case, the emphasis wouldn't need to exist.

  11. #2151
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Where were those women with their allegations in the previous years?
    At a guess?

    Originally they were shamed/scared into not reporting it.
    As young women they tried to forget about it and get on with their lives.
    As older women they gave up being able to do anything about it because the statute of limitations had passed.

    Now, they see their abuser about to achieve one of the highest levels of power in their country. They can't actually take him to court (gotta love that statute of limitations), but have decided the man responsible for the nightmare of their teenage years shouldn't be given power over the laws protecting their own teenage children.
    Serious question Nich: Does the mass decision to not report (for any and all of the reasons stated) not in part enable the culture of sexual assault?

    Is "nothing will happen so why bother" not a self-fullfilling prophesy?

    Is an emphasis on "Report, report, report!" not a key component of fighting the culture of abuse?
    I'm not really sure how those questions relate to why I find it believable that the media attention around the guy would prompt previously silent victims to come forward, but I'll humour you to see where this goes:

    Yes.
    Yes.
    Yes.

    The emphasis on "Report, report, report" exists because the natural inclination was for young women to not report it when the abuser was wealthy, powerful, connected or respected. If that were not the case, the emphasis wouldn't need to exist.
    Wasn't a bait question. I respect your opinions, this question has been rattling around since the Kav. issue started, and I simply wanted to know what you thought on the matter.

    It's not going to "go" anywhere, since you quite directly and clearly answered and we appear to agree. Hope you're not disappointed you humoured me.


  12. #2152

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Where were those women with their allegations in the previous years?
    At a guess?

    Originally they were shamed/scared into not reporting it.
    As young women they tried to forget about it and get on with their lives.
    As older women they gave up being able to do anything about it because the statute of limitations had passed.

    Now, they see their abuser about to achieve one of the highest levels of power in their country. They can't actually take him to court (gotta love that statute of limitations), but have decided the man responsible for the nightmare of their teenage years shouldn't be given power over the laws protecting their own teenage children.
    Serious question Nich: Does the mass decision to not report (for any and all of the reasons stated) not in part enable the culture of sexual assault?

    Is "nothing will happen so why bother" not a self-fullfilling prophesy?

    Is an emphasis on "Report, report, report!" not a key component of fighting the culture of abuse?
    I'm not really sure how those questions relate to why I find it believable that the media attention around the guy would prompt previously silent victims to come forward, but I'll humour you to see where this goes:

    Yes.
    Yes.
    Yes.

    The emphasis on "Report, report, report" exists because the natural inclination was for young women to not report it when the abuser was wealthy, powerful, connected or respected. If that were not the case, the emphasis wouldn't need to exist.
    Wasn't a bait question. I respect your opinions, this question has been rattling around since the Kav. issue started, and I simply wanted to know what you thought on the matter.

    It's not going to "go" anywhere, since you quite directly and clearly answered and we appear to agree. Hope you're not disappointed you humoured me.
    I'm only disappointed a longer discussion to test my point of view didn't arise.

  13. #2153

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post

    A. That's not an answer to the question.

    B. I don't care what you think of me.

    C. You're not Nich.
    Yes, of course you don't, it's why you kept digging up my posts to negrep them a while ago even when they were tens of pages old.

    On the topic, the issue is you're going at this arse-backwards, and while all of those *are* true you are in classic fashion ignoring the reason behind it and attempting to analyze the result. It's only made more obvious by your replies to Erich. Think for a second *why* the situation is as it is and why this is forced to be this way.

    Thins brings up the point of you making it look like it's their fault for bringing it upon themselves, with the "enabling the culture of sexual assault" and "self fulfilling prophecy" wording. You consistently manage to (i suspect intentionally) word and frame things in such a way to be edgy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Because it's pretty obvious that feeling shame and not reporting a crime in fact does and did enable abusers to abuse. No one victim is at fault, and this is not victim blaming.
    No, this is exactly what it is, implying others not reporting makes it even worse for the rest is exactly blaming women for being in the shitty situation they are in. You might not think so, but that's exactly what your words keep saying. Hence the previous comments.

    I have a question, what benefit is there to framing this in wording that implies it's their own fault? Just for internet reee points? Or more likely because you're consistently utterly unable to put yourself in another person's shoes with your big privilege dick?
    Last edited by Isyel; September 26 2018 at 08:39:18 AM.

  14. #2154
    Donor lubica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post

    No, this is exactly what it is, implying others not reporting makes it even worse for the rest is exactly blaming women for being in the shitty situation they are in. You might not think so, but that's exactly what your words keep saying. Hence the previous comments.

    I have a question, what benefit is there to framing this in wording that implies it's their own fault? Just for internet reee points? Or more likely because you're consistently utterly unable to put yourself in another person's shoes with your big privilege dick?
    Let me get this straight: Victim A not reporting Abuser A, who then goes on to crate Victims B, C and D, is not Victim A's fault at least in some minimal non-woman-hating degree? Aside from Victim A seeking justice for herself, reporting it also stops this shit from happening to the next woman. Do you blame this on culture? Selfishness? Shame? What th fuck do you really want? Aside from people to stop raping each other obv.


    Quote Originally Posted by Narmio
    Welcome to Dwarf Fortress, where there is a fine line between insanity and gameplay. The line menaces with spikes of obsessive compulsion.

  15. #2155
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lubica View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post

    No, this is exactly what it is, implying others not reporting makes it even worse for the rest is exactly blaming women for being in the shitty situation they are in. You might not think so, but that's exactly what your words keep saying. Hence the previous comments.

    I have a question, what benefit is there to framing this in wording that implies it's their own fault? Just for internet reee points? Or more likely because you're consistently utterly unable to put yourself in another person's shoes with your big privilege dick?
    Let me get this straight: Victim A not reporting Abuser A, who then goes on to crate Victims B, C and D, is not Victim A's fault at least in some minimal non-woman-hating degree? Aside from Victim A seeking justice for herself, reporting it also stops this shit from happening to the next woman. Do you blame this on culture? Selfishness? Shame? What th fuck do you really want? Aside from people to stop raping each other obv.
    Yeah that first victim is basically just as bad as the actual rapist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  16. #2156
    Donor lubica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post

    No, this is exactly what it is, implying others not reporting makes it even worse for the rest is exactly blaming women for being in the shitty situation they are in. You might not think so, but that's exactly what your words keep saying. Hence the previous comments.

    I have a question, what benefit is there to framing this in wording that implies it's their own fault? Just for internet reee points? Or more likely because you're consistently utterly unable to put yourself in another person's shoes with your big privilege dick?
    Let me get this straight: Victim A not reporting Abuser A, who then goes on to crate Victims B, C and D, is not Victim A's fault at least in some minimal non-woman-hating degree? Aside from Victim A seeking justice for herself, reporting it also stops this shit from happening to the next woman. Do you blame this on culture? Selfishness? Shame? What th fuck do you really want? Aside from people to stop raping each other obv.
    Yeah that first victim is basically just as bad as the actual rapist.

    Because that's what I said, yes.
    Fuck off.


    Quote Originally Posted by Narmio
    Welcome to Dwarf Fortress, where there is a fine line between insanity and gameplay. The line menaces with spikes of obsessive compulsion.

  17. #2157
    The Pube Whisperer Maximillian's Avatar
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    The problem is that sexual crimes are usually the hardest cases to prosecute, because in so many situations there are only two or possible three or four people in a position to know what happened.

    Also evidence - unless the victim almost immediately seeks out professionals - degrades quickly. Plus in historic cases the technology available today to obtain DNA as an example simple wasn't there. Also there was no social media to allow victims to communicate and coordinate to bring cases against perpetrators.

    Then you had the cultural issues - among the police, the courts and the public - about consent and behavior. Today drunk people are immediately assumed to be unable to consent, but once that wasn't the case.

    This is why so many do not report, why the majority of cases that are reported never see the inside of a court room, and why - given only the most rock-solid cases make it to court - you get so many acquittals.

    In the end in a legal system where criminal cases must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in any case where there are two opposing stories without further evidence you will always have to acquit.


    When it comes to Judge Kavanaugh you are going to have a hard time bring criminal charges. The accusers will have to get everything right - times, dates, locations, who was present - and then somehow prove that a sexual crime was committed. Given the time elapsed unless every accuser and every witness wrote everything down at that time then you have little chance of convincing a jury - none if you get any of the details wrong.

    But this actually doesn't matter when it comes to the confirmation hearings. Innocent until proven guilty applies to the legal system, not the House. Confirmation is a political process and hence the rules of politics apply right down to public opinion. Judge Kavanaugh is not being sent to jail, he is being appointed to the most powerful court in the nation where he will serve until he retires or dies. Given that fact are the allegations enough politically to disqualify him?

    Judge Thomas survived sexual harassment allegations but what is alleged against Judge Kavanaugh is far worse. For the Republicans they can confirm him regardless of any claims but it is obvious they are losing nerve. If Kavanaugh didn't do what he is accused of then it is terrible for him, but given the status of the position I think that he should not be appointed unless his accusers fail to bring any type of reasonable case when called to testify.

  18. #2158
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    Smacking aggressive retards who were hitting on my friends was the best part of my 20s. I mean, I'm about às horny and retarded as it gets but some guys really need an axe to the temple before they learn how to appreciate women.

    Atavistic genes gonna atavize I guess

  19. #2159
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Where were those women with their allegations in the previous years?
    At a guess?

    Originally they were shamed/scared into not reporting it.
    As young women they tried to forget about it and get on with their lives.
    As older women they gave up being able to do anything about it because the statute of limitations had passed.

    Now, they see their abuser about to achieve one of the highest levels of power in their country. They can't actually take him to court (gotta love that statute of limitations), but have decided the man responsible for the nightmare of their teenage years shouldn't be given power over the laws protecting their own teenage children.
    Serious question Nich: Does the mass decision to not report (for any and all of the reasons stated) not in part enable the culture of sexual assault?

    Is "nothing will happen so why bother" not a self-fullfilling prophesy?

    Is an emphasis on "Report, report, report!" not a key component of fighting the culture of abuse?
    I'm not really sure how those questions relate to why I find it believable that the media attention around the guy would prompt previously silent victims to come forward, but I'll humour you to see where this goes:

    Yes.
    Yes.
    Yes.

    The emphasis on "Report, report, report" exists because the natural inclination was for young women to not report it when the abuser was wealthy, powerful, connected or respected. If that were not the case, the emphasis wouldn't need to exist.
    Wasn't a bait question. I respect your opinions, this question has been rattling around since the Kav. issue started, and I simply wanted to know what you thought on the matter.

    It's not going to "go" anywhere, since you quite directly and clearly answered and we appear to agree. Hope you're not disappointed you humoured me.
    I'm only disappointed a longer discussion to test my point of view didn't arise.
    Sorry?

    I'd love to disagree or test you on some specific point, but your original OP was IMO accurate as to the myriad causes of why "back then" it was such a challenge and so understandable that women did not come forward. I agree that the amount of attention now, as a SC nominee, could/would prompt a former victim to come forward despite all the reasons aforementioned not to do so. And you agree that now, today, an emphasis (not the only emphasis, it must be noted) to combat this issue is a strong movement to always report, to never allow abuse to go unreported/uncontested, to assist the (hopefully) sea change away from tolerance of it to a complete intolerance for abuse (sexual or physical or mental).


  20. #2160
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lubica View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post

    No, this is exactly what it is, implying others not reporting makes it even worse for the rest is exactly blaming women for being in the shitty situation they are in. You might not think so, but that's exactly what your words keep saying. Hence the previous comments.

    I have a question, what benefit is there to framing this in wording that implies it's their own fault? Just for internet reee points? Or more likely because you're consistently utterly unable to put yourself in another person's shoes with your big privilege dick?
    Let me get this straight: Victim A not reporting Abuser A, who then goes on to crate Victims B, C and D, is not Victim A's fault at least in some minimal non-woman-hating degree? Aside from Victim A seeking justice for herself, reporting it also stops this shit from happening to the next woman. Do you blame this on culture? Selfishness? Shame? What th fuck do you really want? Aside from people to stop raping each other obv.
    I don't like to use the word "fault" tbqh, and I don't view this as a micro-level issue, where we blame person A as an individual for not reporting case A. This is clearly a macro-level societal issue that needs to be combated.

    It does seem rather clear that the widespread non-reporting at the least did not foment the #MeToo movement sooner.

    That statement does not in any way minimize or nullify that individuals reporting assault way back when was exceedingly hard in almost every case. It was, and is many cases/places, still is. The victims are not to blame for a social structural failure, their feelings and frustration are 100% valid.

    But for society to advance, and to combat this issue, we cannot continue to accept non-reporting now, going forward. We must support these victims and create an atmosphere of at the vest least neutrality where victims can press their accusations without fear of being destroyed out of hand as it was in the past.

    It's why I dislike the focus being on saying it's ok that things were not reported. It's understandable, absolutely, but not ok, and it being not ok to not-report is something I want to see society as a whole push.


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