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Thread: (Germany über alles) Superior EU Politics Thread

  1. #3761
    rufuske's Avatar
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    UK is fucked, they cannot withstand combined power of Icelandic and Maltese navy. They're coming for your fish.

  2. #3762
    Super Chillerator Global Moderator teds :D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    I bet half of those Italy searches in Germany are for restaurants.

    Tapapapatalk
    ditto UK

    send pizza

  3. #3763
    DerWish's Avatar
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    All what is needed for the perfect storm.

    By the 2nd of March every healthcare worker in Hungary had to sign a special public servant contract.
    In short:
    > you get a significant salary increase
    > accepting gratuity (thank you money, almost like a bribe) becomes illegal
    > you cannot have a private practice
    > as a public servant(!) you can be reassigned to a specific location within the country, you can only say no to the reassignment by resigning
    > your top boss is the Interior minister

    If a doctor or a nurse does not sign this cannot work in the public healthcare sector.
    Already within a day, there county hospitals stopped working or wards without doctors and/or nurses.

    so... fuck me... just when the Czech & Slovakia are under the mutated C-19 pressure and it's 100% sure to infect Hungary within a week.

  4. #3764
    Sp4m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerWish View Post
    All what is needed for the perfect storm.

    By the 2nd of March every healthcare worker in Hungary had to sign a special public servant contract.
    In short:
    > you get a significant salary increase
    > accepting gratuity (thank you money, almost like a bribe) becomes illegal
    > you cannot have a private practice
    > as a public servant(!) you can be reassigned to a specific location within the country, you can only say no to the reassignment by resigning
    > your top boss is the Interior minister

    If a doctor or a nurse does not sign this cannot work in the public healthcare sector.
    Already within a day, there county hospitals stopped working or wards without doctors and/or nurses.

    so... fuck me... just when the Czech & Slovakia are under the mutated C-19 pressure and it's 100% sure to infect Hungary within a week.
    is this like trying to form a national health service?

    or just stop being so corrupt?

  5. #3765
    DerWish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sp4m View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DerWish View Post
    All what is needed for the perfect storm.

    By the 2nd of March every healthcare worker in Hungary had to sign a special public servant contract.
    In short:
    > you get a significant salary increase
    > accepting gratuity (thank you money, almost like a bribe) becomes illegal
    > you cannot have a private practice
    > as a public servant(!) you can be reassigned to a specific location within the country, you can only say no to the reassignment by resigning
    > your top boss is the Interior minister

    If a doctor or a nurse does not sign this cannot work in the public healthcare sector.
    Already within a day, there county hospitals stopped working or wards without doctors and/or nurses.

    so... fuck me... just when the Czech & Slovakia are under the mutated C-19 pressure and it's 100% sure to infect Hungary within a week.
    is this like trying to form a national health service?

    or just stop being so corrupt?
    Public health service workers are really underpaid, unless you reach a really high status.
    The whole system was barely working with the gratuity to the doctors/lead nurses.
    Nurses and doctors to earn respectable income opened their own private practices.

    I do commend and feel happy how the gratuity system is now illegal.
    Which is by the way frown upon by everyone, both patients and doctors.
    The real pain felt by the healthcare workers come from the close for the private practices and reassignments rights.

    If you live in the capital with your family and tomorrow you are reassigned to the 300km to the east border you would have to move, just like a professional soldier.

    Do you have the same rules in UK for the NHS nurses and doctors?

  6. #3766
    GeromeDoutrande's Avatar
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    NHS doesn't work that way, people get hired by local NHS organisations as far as I know.

  7. #3767
    Sp4m's Avatar
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    Yes agreed - I have never heard of being re-deployed in the NHS.

    Plenty of people working in departments to cover others - but given a crisis its to be expected.

  8. #3768
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sp4m View Post
    Yes agreed - I have never heard of being re-deployed in the NHS.

    Plenty of people working in departments to cover others - but given a crisis its to be expected.
    Plenty were redeployed due to the covid crisis, but not out of their NHS trust region without asking first

  9. #3769
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    Ha ha, trying to make gratuity to doctors and nurses illegal in a ex communist country...

    It will not work. We ended making it officially legal and greatly increasing the limits.

    It didn't stop all doctors and nurses spending all their free time studieren für Ghöete Zertifikat B Zwei.

    And with Hungary being a EU member I would guess it much worse. I know Croatia more or less lost its skilled workforce in first could of years off joining EU.

    Freedom of movement when applied to meatbags and not just to corporate overlords can be quite annoying at times

    Sent from my M2007J3SG using Tapatalk

  10. #3770
    Movember 2012 Stoffl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerWish View Post
    ]


    Do you have the same rules in UK for the NHS nurses and doctors?
    No, which is why they all moved back to Europe before brexit

    MI8m8

  11. #3771
    Lowa [NSN]'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerWish View Post
    All what is needed for the perfect storm.

    By the 2nd of March every healthcare worker in Hungary had to sign a special public servant contract.
    In short:
    > you get a significant salary increase
    > accepting gratuity (thank you money, almost like a bribe) becomes illegal
    > you cannot have a private practice
    > as a public servant(!) you can be reassigned to a specific location within the country, you can only say no to the reassignment by resigning
    > your top boss is the Interior minister
    So...communist structure it is then?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarminic View Post
    I would create a dragon made out of vaginas. Then I would create a dragon made out of dicks. Then I would have them fight to the death.

  12. #3772
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowa [NSN] View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DerWish View Post
    All what is needed for the perfect storm.

    By the 2nd of March every healthcare worker in Hungary had to sign a special public servant contract.
    In short:
    > you get a significant salary increase
    > accepting gratuity (thank you money, almost like a bribe) becomes illegal
    > you cannot have a private practice
    > as a public servant(!) you can be reassigned to a specific location within the country, you can only say no to the reassignment by resigning
    > your top boss is the Interior minister
    So...communist structure it is then?
    Yep. Inducements and bonus pay would be "nicer" but I figure they're trying to fix the rural-urban divide in healthcare on the cheap.

    Doctors generally didn't get their degree to live in the boonies.

  13. #3773
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowa [NSN] View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DerWish View Post
    All what is needed for the perfect storm.

    By the 2nd of March every healthcare worker in Hungary had to sign a special public servant contract.
    In short:
    > you get a significant salary increase
    > accepting gratuity (thank you money, almost like a bribe) becomes illegal
    > you cannot have a private practice
    > as a public servant(!) you can be reassigned to a specific location within the country, you can only say no to the reassignment by resigning
    > your top boss is the Interior minister
    So...communist structure it is then?
    Sounds like they made them Beamte.
    nevar forget

  14. #3774

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by evil edna View Post
    The transatlantic slave trade was obviously abhorrent and a stain on western societys history, but he idea that Africa was some kind of naïve innocent place before the white man arrives or that noone there had any level of culpability in it, thats just silly. And a bit patronizing towards african history.
    You know what the annual peak of the Indian ocean slave trade was, before the Euros showed up?

    You know what it was after they showed up?

    West Africa is less well documented, but the Africans only really practiced arranged marriages and chattel slavery (and whatever the ones in the north could sell to the Romans, via the North African tribes) prior to the Euros showing up and industrializing the process.

    No one in Africa blackwashes their history, and no one is saying it was an innocent place. It's just a false equivalence entirely, is what I'm saying
    So a little bit of slavery is ok but mega slavery is wrong? Also african people in NL are totes blackwashing history. We even have a Ashanti prince in NL raging about slavery completely denying his tribes role in history.....literally denying it.

    I agree with Edna on this.
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  15. #3775
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by evil edna View Post
    The transatlantic slave trade was obviously abhorrent and a stain on western societys history, but he idea that Africa was some kind of naïve innocent place before the white man arrives or that noone there had any level of culpability in it, thats just silly. And a bit patronizing towards african history.
    You know what the annual peak of the Indian ocean slave trade was, before the Euros showed up?

    You know what it was after they showed up?

    West Africa is less well documented, but the Africans only really practiced arranged marriages and chattel slavery (and whatever the ones in the north could sell to the Romans, via the North African tribes) prior to the Euros showing up and industrializing the process.

    No one in Africa blackwashes their history, and no one is saying it was an innocent place. It's just a false equivalence entirely, is what I'm saying
    So a little bit of slavery is ok but mega slavery is wrong? Also african people in NL are totes blackwashing history. We even have a Ashanti prince in NL raging about slavery completely denying his tribes role in history.....literally denying it.

    I agree with Edna on this.
    I can find you individual white people that deny the holocaust. Does this mean all white people do?
    meh

  16. #3776

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    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/03/w...extremism.html

    Germany Places Far-Right AfD Party Under Surveillance for Extremism
    It is the first time in Germany’s postwar history that a party represented in the federal Parliament has elicited this level of scrutiny as a potential threat to democracy.

  17. #3777
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/03/w...extremism.html

    Germany Places Far-Right AfD Party Under Surveillance for Extremism
    It is the first time in Germany’s postwar history that a party represented in the federal Parliament has elicited this level of scrutiny as a potential threat to democracy.
    First? That is probably a bit wrong.

    The NPD, a far right Neo-Nazi party was about to be banned when the ban couldn't pass the courts because too many members where on the payroll of the Verfassungsschutz - domestic intel agency tasked with surveillance of extremist parties. Certain members of Die Linke, a far left party and successor to East Germany's state party SED, is under surveillance as well, but not the whole party. Die Linke is part of several state governments and thus represented in the upper house of our parliament as well.
    In the 50s they banned two parties in West Germany: the SRP, which was a successor to the NSDAP, and the communist KPD. The Verfassungsschutz already existed back then, so I would assume they were also under surveillance. The terms "Verdachtsfall"* may not have been used, but they were definitely seen as a big threat to Germany's free and democratic order and thus banned.

    *literally: a case of suspicion
    nevar forget

  18. #3778

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    In typical fashion, sort of losing the point in all the pedantry.

  19. #3779

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/03/w...extremism.html

    Germany Places Far-Right AfD Party Under Surveillance for Extremism
    It is the first time in Germany’s postwar history that a party represented in the federal Parliament has elicited this level of scrutiny as a potential threat to democracy.
    First? That is probably a bit wrong.

    The NPD, a far right Neo-Nazi party was about to be banned when the ban couldn't pass the courts because too many members where on the payroll of the Verfassungsschutz - domestic intel agency tasked with surveillance of extremist parties. Certain members of Die Linke, a far left party and successor to East Germany's state party SED, is under surveillance as well, but not the whole party. Die Linke is part of several state governments and thus represented in the upper house of our parliament as well.
    In the 50s they banned two parties in West Germany: the SRP, which was a successor to the NSDAP, and the communist KPD. The Verfassungsschutz already existed back then, so I would assume they were also under surveillance. The terms "Verdachtsfall"* may not have been used, but they were definitely seen as a big threat to Germany's free and democratic order and thus banned.

    *literally: a case of suspicion
    To expand on that: this may seem like semantics, but "granting" an entity the status of "Verdachtsfall" enables the Verfassungsschutz to use "intelligence service means" (e.g. wire-tapping) for gathering (further) information. The previous status, "Prüfungsfall" (~"case of evaluation") only allows gathering information from public available sources. This is what had happened to Die Linke, and if I'm not mistaken, the Verfassungsschutz stopped monitoring them a while back.

  20. #3780
    GeromeDoutrande's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/03/w...extremism.html

    Germany Places Far-Right AfD Party Under Surveillance for Extremism
    It is the first time in Germany’s postwar history that a party represented in the federal Parliament has elicited this level of scrutiny as a potential threat to democracy.
    First? That is probably a bit wrong.

    The NPD, a far right Neo-Nazi party was about to be banned when the ban couldn't pass the courts because too many members where on the payroll of the Verfassungsschutz - domestic intel agency tasked with surveillance of extremist parties. Certain members of Die Linke, a far left party and successor to East Germany's state party SED, is under surveillance as well, but not the whole party. Die Linke is part of several state governments and thus represented in the upper house of our parliament as well.
    In the 50s they banned two parties in West Germany: the SRP, which was a successor to the NSDAP, and the communist KPD. The Verfassungsschutz already existed back then, so I would assume they were also under surveillance. The terms "Verdachtsfall"* may not have been used, but they were definitely seen as a big threat to Germany's free and democratic order and thus banned.

    *literally: a case of suspicion
    To expand on that: this may seem like semantics, but "granting" an entity the status of "Verdachtsfall" enables the Verfassungsschutz to use "intelligence service means" (e.g. wire-tapping) for gathering (further) information. The previous status, "Prüfungsfall" (~"case of evaluation") only allows gathering information from public available sources. This is what had happened to Die Linke, and if I'm not mistaken, the Verfassungsschutz stopped monitoring them a while back.
    To expand on that: here is the law that defines a Verdachtsfall in the original German version (amidoingitright)

    Gesetz über die Zusammenarbeit des Bundes und der Länder in Angelegenheiten des Verfassungsschutzes und über das Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz (Bundesverfassungsschutzgesetz - BVerfSchG)§ 4 Begriffsbestimmungen

    (1) Im Sinne dieses Gesetzes sind
    a) Bestrebungen gegen den Bestand des Bundes oder eines Landes solche politisch bestimmten, ziel- und zweckgerichteten Verhaltensweisen in einem oder für einen Personenzusammenschluß, der darauf gerichtet ist, die Freiheit des Bundes oder eines Landes von fremder Herrschaft aufzuheben, ihre staatliche Einheit zu beseitigen oder ein zu ihm gehörendes Gebiet abzutrennen;
    b) Bestrebungen gegen die Sicherheit des Bundes oder eines Landes solche politisch bestimmten, ziel- und zweckgerichteten Verhaltensweisen in einem oder für einen Personenzusammenschluß, der darauf gerichtet ist, den Bund, Länder oder deren Einrichtungen in ihrer Funktionsfähigkeit erheblich zu beeinträchtigen;
    c) Bestrebungen gegen die freiheitliche demokratische Grundordnung solche politisch bestimmten, ziel- und zweckgerichteten Verhaltensweisen in einem oder für einen Personenzusammenschluß, der darauf gerichtet ist, einen der in Absatz 2 genannten Verfassungsgrundsätze zu beseitigen oder außer Geltung zu setzen.
    Für einen Personenzusammenschluß handelt, wer ihn in seinen Bestrebungen nachdrücklich unterstützt. Voraussetzung für die Sammlung und Auswertung von Informationen im Sinne des § 3 Abs. 1 ist das Vorliegen tatsächlicher Anhaltspunkte. Verhaltensweisen von Einzelpersonen, die nicht in einem oder für einen Personenzusammenschluß handeln, sind Bestrebungen im Sinne dieses Gesetzes, wenn sie auf Anwendung von Gewalt gerichtet sind oder aufgrund ihrer Wirkungsweise geeignet sind, ein Schutzgut dieses Gesetzes erheblich zu beschädigen.
    (2) Zur freiheitlichen demokratischen Grundordnung im Sinne dieses Gesetzes zählen:
    a) das Recht des Volkes, die Staatsgewalt in Wahlen und Abstimmungen und durch besondere Organe der Gesetzgebung, der vollziehenden Gewalt und der Rechtsprechung auszuüben und die Volksvertretung in allgemeiner, unmittelbarer, freier, gleicher und geheimer Wahl zu wählen,
    b) die Bindung der Gesetzgebung an die verfassungsmäßige Ordnung und die Bindung der vollziehenden Gewalt und der Rechtsprechung an Gesetz und Recht,
    c) das Recht auf Bildung und Ausübung einer parlamentarischen Opposition,
    d) die Ablösbarkeit der Regierung und ihre Verantwortlichkeit gegenüber der Volksvertretung,
    e) die Unabhängigkeit der Gerichte,
    f) der Ausschluß jeder Gewalt- und Willkürherrschaft und
    g) die im Grundgesetz konkretisierten Menschenrechte.

    Fußnote
    (+++ Erster Abschn. (§§ 1 bis 7): Zur Anwendung vgl. § 36 SÜG +++)

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