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Thread: (Germany über alles) Superior EU Politics Thread

  1. #1881

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    BTW, I find this discussion very intersting.

    By following the U.K. thread, I was made aware of the fact that these kind of inner-party turmoil in a foreign country seldom make national news. There has to happen something very important like overthrowing the current party leader or similar impacting events in order to be newsworthy.

    But those day-to-day, very serious but just not (yet) existence threatening inner party concflicts? Nope, no idea about those. And I do consider myself to be interested in news in general and politics specifically.

    So for me it's interesting to see an outsider's take on this whole matter.

  2. #1882

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    Somewhat related article to the above: http://www.spiegel.de/international/...a-1211950.html

    Although its focus is on the relationship Germany - EU, it touches on the rift between Merkel and her party (spoiler because of a larger quote):
      Spoiler:

    And then there is Trump's new representative in Berlin: U.S. Ambassador Richard Grenell, who enjoys close ties to both the U.S. president and to National Security Advisor John Bolton. Grenell recently told the far-right website Breitbart that he wants to "empower" right-wing conservatives in Germany and in Europe.

    He apparently views his mission as that of emulating Trump and challenging the political establishment here in Germany. And of strengthening the "conservatives," whom he believes make up the silent majority. It seems unlikely that he was referring to Angela Merkel.

    Last Sunday afternoon, the American ambassador met with a number of young members of Merkel's Christian Democratic Union (CDU). The gathering was part of the "Future Factory" format that Jens Spahn, Merkel's chief conservative adversary within the CDU, hosts. Grenell told the politicians how he views Germany: As in the U.S. prior to Trump's election victory, he sees a conservative "silent majority" that is slowly finding its political voice. At the end of the meeting, he added a personal message: "I am very happy that Jens and Daniel are here in Berlin. You make the start so much easier." He was referring to Spahn, who is Merkel's health minister, and Spahn's husband.

    The CDU's youth wing is enthusiastic about Trump's man in Berlin. One meeting-participant from the state of Thuringia even pulled a red "Make America Great Again" cap out of his bag and asked the ambassador to have it autographed by Trump. "No problem," Grenell promised.

    Spahn's closeness with Grenell is no secret. On the contrary, the two have been celebrating their friendship over the past several weeks on Twitter. Grenell has hosted Spahn for dinner at the ambassador's residence and Spahn has given Grenell a personal tour of the Reichstag. After the tour, Grenell tweeted out a picture of the two of them smiling broadly. "No better way to see the Bundestag than with a Member of Parliament. Thanks, @jensspahn!" the U.S. ambassador wrote.

    For Merkel, Spahn's foray into foreign relations is beyond aggravating. If Grenell is the gateway to access to the Trump administration, then it is her adversary Spahn who holds the keys. No other member of German government or CDU member has such a personal connection to the U.S. ambassador - neither Merkel's foreign policy adviser Jan Hecker nor Peter Beyer, the government's coordinator for trans-Atlantic relations.

    'Dinner with Friends'

    Those close to Spahn say the CDU politician has known Grenell for around three years and that they have a lot in common, both politically and privately. Both are conservative, both are "critical of Islam" and both are gay. "Dinner with friends. Welcome to Berlin," reads a recent tweet from Spahn's husband Daniel Funke, who is the head of the Berlin bureau of Bunte, the gossip magazine. Attached to the tweet was a picture of the four friends complete with Grenell's dog Lola. "We always love hanging with you two," Grenell replied.

    Funke recently used his connection to land a long interview with the U.S. ambassador in his magazine. Grenell, for his part, is said to have helped Spahn arrange meetings with the powers that be in Washington, such as Trump's former top adviser and far-right ideologue Stephen Bannon.

    Another member of the network of young conservatives is Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz, whom Grenell intends to host for lunch during Kurz's visit to Berlin next week. "Doesn't the Austrian chancellor have an American ambassador at home he could meet with?" Volker Kauder, conservative floor leader in German parliament, apparently complained.

    Merkel's opponents, both in Germany and abroad, are closing ranks. On Wednesday evening, Marcus Söder, the governor of Bavaria and certainly not a fervent Merkel supporter, held an event in the Antiquarium in the Munich Residence, one of the most important examples of the Renaissance in Germany. Kurz, who ended Merkel's open border policy in early 2016 by closing down the Balkan Route against the German chancellor's will, was also there.

    When Kurz arrived, Söder hurried to the podium to welcome him. Cheers of "Bravo! Bravo!" echoed through the hall. Within Söder's party, the Christian Social Union, which is nominally the sister party to Merkel's CDU, Kurz is something of a star for having stood up to Merkel. And Merkel is seen as nothing but a hindrance, particularly with state elections approaching in Bavaria this fall.

  3. #1883

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Apparantly your minister of Interior actually resigned. So whats now? Elections?
    He hasn't yet resigned. At least he hasn't said so yet, and a lot of politicians are saying he shouldn't.

    And no, no new elections. We don't do that unless the chancellor resigns. Seriously, why would a resigning minister cause new elections? He'll be replaced by someone else in the CSU.
    Well in Sweden its being reported he resigned. Well he is teh leader of his party for one. If it was sweden him resigning would mean the party are withdrawing support from the coalition, but i dont know how you guys do this so hence my questions.


    Actually the last time that happened, Olof Johansson the leader of the center party leaving over the Öresund Bridge, they coalition continued on.


    *Complete sidenote

    Imagine how the south of Sweden would look like if that hadn't been built and how it has developed the region. The center party's miserable performance in Skåne since, is in no small part thanks to his idiotic opposition.

  4. #1884
    Alistair's Avatar
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    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/w...t-ghettos.html

    In Denmark, Harsh New Laws for Immigrant ‘Ghettos’

    Starting at the age of 1, “ghetto children” must be separated from their families for at least 25 hours a week, not including nap time, for mandatory instruction in “Danish values,” including the traditions of Christmas and Easter, and Danish language. Noncompliance could result in a stoppage of welfare payments. Other Danish citizens are free to choose whether to enroll children in preschool up to the age of six.

    Denmark’s government is introducing a new set of laws to regulate life in 25 low-income and heavily Muslim enclaves, saying that if families there do not willingly merge into the country’s mainstream, they should be compelled.


  5. #1885

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/w...t-ghettos.html

    In Denmark, Harsh New Laws for Immigrant ‘Ghettos’

    Starting at the age of 1, “ghetto children” must be separated from their families for at least 25 hours a week, not including nap time, for mandatory instruction in “Danish values,” including the traditions of Christmas and Easter, and Danish language. Noncompliance could result in a stoppage of welfare payments. Other Danish citizens are free to choose whether to enroll children in preschool up to the age of six.

    Denmark’s government is introducing a new set of laws to regulate life in 25 low-income and heavily Muslim enclaves, saying that if families there do not willingly merge into the country’s mainstream, they should be compelled.
    This is totally not going to have terrible side effects and totally doesn't smell of desperate populism. Nope, not at all. What could go wrong.

  6. #1886
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    Merkel, to Survive, Agrees to Border Camps for Migrants


    Is Merkel now a populist? Heil Merkel!
    Last edited by Meester; July 3 2018 at 04:14:24 AM.

  7. #1887
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/w...t-ghettos.html

    In Denmark, Harsh New Laws for Immigrant ‘Ghettos’

    Starting at the age of 1, “ghetto children” must be separated from their families for at least 25 hours a week, not including nap time, for mandatory instruction in “Danish values,” including the traditions of Christmas and Easter, and Danish language. Noncompliance could result in a stoppage of welfare payments. Other Danish citizens are free to choose whether to enroll children in preschool up to the age of six.

    Denmark’s government is introducing a new set of laws to regulate life in 25 low-income and heavily Muslim enclaves, saying that if families there do not willingly merge into the country’s mainstream, they should be compelled.
    This is totally not going to have terrible side effects and totally doesn't smell of desperate populism. Nope, not at all. What could go wrong.
    It's just one of the restrictions to the rights of foreigners and immigrants the Danes have passed recently, I think this is something like the ~80th law? There's even a counter somewhere on the government's web page.

    The Danish anti-immigration and anti-foreigner laws are horrible. This was already apparent when I was living there, e.g. when the social democrats campaigned with the slogan "if you come to Denmark, you must work" four years ago, and so forth. "No way you'll make Denmark your home" (paraphrased by me) was also a slogan a while back.

    If there's going to be a government who goes on to re-implement some sorts of race laws in Europe again, my bets are either the Visegrad countries (Poland, Hungary, etc) or the Nordics.

    Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point. - Blaise Pascal, Pensées, 277

  8. #1888
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/w...t-ghettos.html

    In Denmark, Harsh New Laws for Immigrant ‘Ghettos’

    Starting at the age of 1, “ghetto children” must be separated from their families for at least 25 hours a week, not including nap time, for mandatory instruction in “Danish values,” including the traditions of Christmas and Easter, and Danish language. Noncompliance could result in a stoppage of welfare payments. Other Danish citizens are free to choose whether to enroll children in preschool up to the age of six.

    Denmark’s government is introducing a new set of laws to regulate life in 25 low-income and heavily Muslim enclaves, saying that if families there do not willingly merge into the country’s mainstream, they should be compelled.
    This is totally not going to have terrible side effects and totally doesn't smell of desperate populism. Nope, not at all. What could go wrong.
    It's just one of the restrictions to the rights of foreigners and immigrants the Danes have passed recently, I think this is something like the ~80th law? There's even a counter somewhere on the government's web page.

    The Danish anti-immigration and anti-foreigner laws are horrible. This was already apparent when I was living there, e.g. when the social democrats campaigned with the slogan "if you come to Denmark, you must work" four years ago, and so forth. "No way you'll make Denmark your home" (paraphrased by me) was also a slogan a while back.

    If there's going to be a government who goes on to re-implement some sorts of race laws in Europe again, my bets are either the Visegrad countries (Poland, Hungary, etc) or the Nordics.
    we're most of the way there already, before 2025 i'd say.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  9. #1889
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meester View Post



    Merkel, to Survive, Agrees to Border Camps for Migrants


    Is Merkel now a populist? Heil Merkel!
    Fuck


  10. #1890
    Caldrion Dosto's Avatar
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    Yeah lets put up Transit camps in germany again. Sounds totally like an idea that cant go wrong....

    Also lol at Bolton asking "Why does germany spend so little on defence if Russia is a threat". In before Germany puts down 5% GDP on defence and everyone cries yet again...

  11. #1891

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meester View Post

      Spoiler:





    Merkel, to Survive, Agrees to Border Camps for Migrants


    Is Merkel now a populist? Heil Merkel!
    Given that the compromise*) Merkel and Seehofer agreed upon reads "We let them in (Merkel's demand), but we'll keep them close to the border to send them right back again (Seehofer's demand)", you could as well call out Seehofer as becoming pro-immigration.

    *) The two coalition parties coming to an agreement that allows them both to keep their faces, technically changes nothing at all and allowing for the coalition to continue? Color me surprised...

  12. #1892
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/w...t-ghettos.html

    In Denmark, Harsh New Laws for Immigrant ‘Ghettos’

    Starting at the age of 1, “ghetto children” must be separated from their families for at least 25 hours a week, not including nap time, for mandatory instruction in “Danish values,” including the traditions of Christmas and Easter, and Danish language. Noncompliance could result in a stoppage of welfare payments. Other Danish citizens are free to choose whether to enroll children in preschool up to the age of six.

    Denmark’s government is introducing a new set of laws to regulate life in 25 low-income and heavily Muslim enclaves, saying that if families there do not willingly merge into the country’s mainstream, they should be compelled.
    This is totally not going to have terrible side effects and totally doesn't smell of desperate populism. Nope, not at all. What could go wrong.
    It's just one of the restrictions to the rights of foreigners and immigrants the Danes have passed recently, I think this is something like the ~80th law? There's even a counter somewhere on the government's web page.

    The Danish anti-immigration and anti-foreigner laws are horrible. This was already apparent when I was living there, e.g. when the social democrats campaigned with the slogan "if you come to Denmark, you must work" four years ago, and so forth. "No way you'll make Denmark your home" (paraphrased by me) was also a slogan a while back.

    If there's going to be a government who goes on to re-implement some sorts of race laws in Europe again, my bets are either the Visegrad countries (Poland, Hungary, etc) or the Nordics.
    we're most of the way there already, before 2025 i'd say.
    If it's of any consolation, Finland would be way ahead of you were it not for some pesky wordings in the constitution. Now the government hast to fuck all the poor instead of just non-whites or non-citizens.

    Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point. - Blaise Pascal, Pensées, 277

  13. #1893

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Also lol at Bolton asking "Why does germany spend so little on defence if Russia is a threat". In before Germany puts down 5% GDP on defence and everyone cries yet again...
    This is about to change:
    Germany’s Bundeswehr to get more funding next year than planned according to new Finance Ministry budget draft, Handelsblatt reports, citing unidentified govt officials. Increase of EU4b over 2018 is about EU650m more than Finance Minister Olaf Scholz originally promised Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen

  14. #1894
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Also lol at Bolton asking "Why does germany spend so little on defence if Russia is a threat". In before Germany puts down 5% GDP on defence and everyone cries yet again...
    This is about to change:
    Germany’s Bundeswehr to get more funding next year than planned according to new Finance Ministry budget draft, Handelsblatt reports, citing unidentified govt officials. Increase of EU4b over 2018 is about EU650m more than Finance Minister Olaf Scholz originally promised Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen
    The same in Holland, well extra 350 mill since last year.
    But does that actually go to operational stuff? I know that in NL for last year, this year and 2019 the extra budget is just going to re-stocking of supplies and delayed repairs (aka no longer canabalizing a f-16 for parts etc). At one point the budget cuts were so hard (2 years ago) there wasnt even money to do live fire excercise.
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  15. #1895
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Meester View Post

      Spoiler:





    Merkel, to Survive, Agrees to Border Camps for Migrants


    Is Merkel now a populist? Heil Merkel!
    Given that the compromise*) Merkel and Seehofer agreed upon reads "We let them in (Merkel's demand), but we'll keep them close to the border to send them right back again (Seehofer's demand)", you could as well call out Seehofer as becoming pro-immigration.

    *) The two coalition parties coming to an agreement that allows them both to keep their faces, technically changes nothing at all and allowing for the coalition to continue? Color me surprised...
    I had odds on a Seehofer replacement and then a similar compromise, but this is probably better for all involved. Not overly surprising.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  16. #1896

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Also lol at Bolton asking "Why does germany spend so little on defence if Russia is a threat". In before Germany puts down 5% GDP on defence and everyone cries yet again...
    This is about to change:
    Germany’s Bundeswehr to get more funding next year than planned according to new Finance Ministry budget draft, Handelsblatt reports, citing unidentified govt officials. Increase of EU4b over 2018 is about EU650m more than Finance Minister Olaf Scholz originally promised Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen
    The same in Holland, well extra 350 mill since last year.
    But does that actually go to operational stuff? [...]
    This.

    That whole "spend x% of GDP" is meaningless until binding details go along with it. As it stands now, technically just raising the wages of the soldiers and let everything else rot/rust away would fullfill the x% of GDP requirement. I'm sure we all agree that thi isn't the intention of that commitment for military spending.

  17. #1897
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    They could just be increasing military budgets and then spend the extra money on research under a military budget umbrella.

  18. #1898
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    There's going to be a capabilities review at the NATO conference that I suspect will basically tell countries to expand/build on their, well, capabilities.

    Overall I think there's a general agreement among EU NATO members that they 1. should spend more, and 2. actually do something useful with it. Not least because it has become clear that the EU simply can't rely on the US anymore.

    Also: Euroforce (or whatever it's called).
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  19. #1899
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Euroforce

  20. #1900
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    There's going to be a capabilities review at the NATO conference that I suspect will basically tell countries to expand/build on their, well, capabilities.

    Overall I think there's a general agreement among EU NATO members that they 1. should spend more, and 2. actually do something useful with it. Not least because it has become clear that the EU simply can't rely on the US anymore.

    Also: Euroforce (or whatever it's called).
    The wet dream of Juncker.
    Cant help but think of JCvD when euroforce is mentioned (jeanclaudevandamme in that movie where he was a euro special forces guy; terribru movie)
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

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