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Thread: (Germany über alles) Superior EU Politics Thread

  1. #2761
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    Oh right I forgot I'm so sorry about this.

    Some of you also think facebook trolling got Trump elected...
    https://i.imgur.com/Rvz5b6l.gif
    Careful not head hit on rock!
    laughs in Slovenian
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  2. #2762
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    I like how you guys still think facebook is relevant. It's quite clear you're all over 30. Guys technology simply overtook you and you're still stuck in 2010

    It's all about Instagram and Snapchat now. I know a lot of people who stoped using facebook because of the ads literally everywhere
    Facebook owns Instagram, and Snapchat didn't grow user count last quarter. That's like being caught committing pedophilia in tech.
    meh

  3. #2763

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Starting my "online career" back in the haydays of CompuServe etc. I'm well aware of what dwelt in newsgroups. But it required at least a bit of technical skill to get there.

    FB OTOH is easily accessable for everyone and feeds innoncent users content from whomever.

    Yes, the same did happen in newsgroups or later forums, too. But one had a) to search fo those content and b) they mostly stick to themselves. I only ever registered to forums that had interesting content (to me). Whereas, say the Thule Netz/Web, didn't really appeal to me. And I would have to go thru hoops to get access. So a casual visitor was less likely of being exposed to the propaganda in there.

    [Added]
    What Barth explained ...
    you'd get the same sort of shit we see today on the more general newsgroups Hel, stuff like HH1488 posting about the evils of Yugoslav refugees on the general news group was commonplace only it was easier to filter out in large part because the userbase was smaller so it was immediately obvious when somebody tried to poison the well with that sort of shit.
    See, I was all over newsgroups. And found the web replacment for newsgroups - the forum, a rather shitty replacment in the beginning. But I never stumpled over one of those, because - and that's my argument the whole time - one had to actively search for the servers/groups that may have intersting content. And then subscribe to them, configure the newsreader, download what was there, start reading.

    The "user must be active in order to access 'bad' content" is the difference to FB etc, where FB "suggests" content to a user, without him actively searching for it.

  4. #2764

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    I like how you guys still think facebook is relevant. It's quite clear you're all over 30. Guys technology simply overtook you and you're still stuck in 2010

    It's all about Instagram and Snapchat now. I know a lot of people who stoped using facebook because of the ads literally everywhere
    It's still Zuck's empire. I don't see the difference here.

  5. #2765
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Starting my "online career" back in the haydays of CompuServe etc. I'm well aware of what dwelt in newsgroups. But it required at least a bit of technical skill to get there.

    FB OTOH is easily accessable for everyone and feeds innoncent users content from whomever.

    Yes, the same did happen in newsgroups or later forums, too. But one had a) to search fo those content and b) they mostly stick to themselves. I only ever registered to forums that had interesting content (to me). Whereas, say the Thule Netz/Web, didn't really appeal to me. And I would have to go thru hoops to get access. So a casual visitor was less likely of being exposed to the propaganda in there.

    [Added]
    What Barth explained ...
    you'd get the same sort of shit we see today on the more general newsgroups Hel, stuff like HH1488 posting about the evils of Yugoslav refugees on the general news group was commonplace only it was easier to filter out in large part because the userbase was smaller so it was immediately obvious when somebody tried to poison the well with that sort of shit.
    See, I was all over newsgroups. And found the web replacment for newsgroups - the forum, a rather shitty replacment in the beginning. But I never stumpled over one of those, because - and that's my argument the whole time - one had to actively search for the servers/groups that may have intersting content. And then subscribe to them, configure the newsreader, download what was there, start reading.

    The "user must be active in order to access 'bad' content" is the difference to FB etc, where FB "suggests" content to a user, without him actively searching for it.
    It works in the inverse though. It shows you things you like, or more accurately, people that "look" like you (to the "algorithm") like. You can take active steps to train it not to show you retarded junk. You can even do this with political stuff, If you want to see that at all. My feed, on facebook, which is the way the old city I grew up in diaspora have chosen to stay in touch with each other, is literally just that. Pictures of friends and their, by now, copious collection of children and pets. I aggressively prune anything else that creeps on there. I don't really see this as different to configuring a newsreader and then subscribing to NNTP feeds. Just in reverse.

    The problem here is the default settings, the effort (or lack thereof) to tell users how to do this, and the open barn door on the backend where they sell your persona to anyone one who wants it. I accept the advertising as the cost of entry (because it is), and I minimize the usable information they need to really monetize me on the back end. Things like GDPR (my issue with the tactics of some groups aside) will help here. Having some insight into how all this stuff works helps there, no doubt. There is value to the user, in some ways, from a service like facebook (really, more a set of technology that can recommend things to users, see also Amazon or Netflix, which just suggest a narrower set of things), but Facebook have done a terrible job showing it to some users, and happily profit off the oblivious ones, who just want to see pictures of their grandkids and believe a cabal of Jews run the deep state.
    meh

  6. #2766

  7. #2767

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    Three or so years ago there was a big Meta study that said 70% of all online news articles had their origin in print media.
    Has that radically changes ?

    Ill see if i can find the correct link with correct numbers but it was close iirc.

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    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  8. #2768

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Starting my "online career" back in the haydays of CompuServe etc. I'm well aware of what dwelt in newsgroups. But it required at least a bit of technical skill to get there.

    FB OTOH is easily accessable for everyone and feeds innoncent users content from whomever.

    Yes, the same did happen in newsgroups or later forums, too. But one had a) to search fo those content and b) they mostly stick to themselves. I only ever registered to forums that had interesting content (to me). Whereas, say the Thule Netz/Web, didn't really appeal to me. And I would have to go thru hoops to get access. So a casual visitor was less likely of being exposed to the propaganda in there.

    [Added]
    What Barth explained ...
    you'd get the same sort of shit we see today on the more general newsgroups Hel, stuff like HH1488 posting about the evils of Yugoslav refugees on the general news group was commonplace only it was easier to filter out in large part because the userbase was smaller so it was immediately obvious when somebody tried to poison the well with that sort of shit.
    See, I was all over newsgroups. And found the web replacment for newsgroups - the forum, a rather shitty replacment in the beginning. But I never stumpled over one of those, because - and that's my argument the whole time - one had to actively search for the servers/groups that may have intersting content. And then subscribe to them, configure the newsreader, download what was there, start reading.

    The "user must be active in order to access 'bad' content" is the difference to FB etc, where FB "suggests" content to a user, without him actively searching for it.
    It works in the inverse though. It shows you things you like, or more accurately, people that "look" like you (to the "algorithm") like. You can take active steps to train it not to show you retarded junk. You can even do this with political stuff, If you want to see that at all. My feed, on facebook, which is the way the old city I grew up in diaspora have chosen to stay in touch with each other, is literally just that. Pictures of friends and their, by now, copious collection of children and pets. I aggressively prune anything else that creeps on there. I don't really see this as different to configuring a newsreader and then subscribing to NNTP feeds. Just in reverse.
    The difference is the initial/default setup:
    - Newsreader: not configured, i.e. not subscribed to any newsgroup at al = you see nothing
    - FB: not configured = you see stuff that FB deems "relevante" to you.

    While I don't know the specifics of FB, I'm ofc exposed to these kind of "relevance estimating" by other services. Be that search engines or shopping sides. And my experience with those tells me that sometimes is outright ridiculous.

    I don't know how many FB*) user's bother to tweak those filters. And that's when FB, without being "properly" configured, potentially feeds 'em crap.

    *) I am and have been using "FB" as an example for all social media sites in all my statements.

  9. #2769
    Caldrion Dosto's Avatar
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    Europe seems to be having a bit of a habit when it comes to handling dirty money.

    Have some of todays headlines:

    https://www.svt.se/special/swedbank/english/

    One of the largest banks in Sweden, Swedbank, may have been used for extensive, systematic money laundering for nearly a decade. A total of USD 5.8 billion has been funneled between suspect accounts in Swedbank and Danske Bank in the Baltics. Of this, USD 26 million is linked to the Russian tax fraud that was uncovered by accountant Sergei Magnitsky.
    Swedbank stock fell 13%.


    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/20/b...aud/index.html

    S faces a massive financial penalty in France after a court there ruled that the Swiss bank helped its wealthy clients avoid taxes.
    The court delivered its verdict in Paris on Wednesday, ordering the bank to pay €4.5 billion ($5.1 billion) and finding it guilty of money laundering and illegal client solicitations.
    The fines include €800 million ($907 million) in civil damages payable to the French state.

    Shares in UBS (UBS) dropped sharply after the verdict was announced, trading down 4.2% in Switzerland. The fines are roughly equal to the bank's net profits for 2018.
    Ouch those fines must have hurt.

  10. #2770

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Europe seems to be having a bit of a habit when it comes to handling dirty money.

    Have some of todays headlines:

    https://www.svt.se/special/swedbank/english/

    One of the largest banks in Sweden, Swedbank, may have been used for extensive, systematic money laundering for nearly a decade. A total of USD 5.8 billion has been funneled between suspect accounts in Swedbank and Danske Bank in the Baltics. Of this, USD 26 million is linked to the Russian tax fraud that was uncovered by accountant Sergei Magnitsky.
    Swedbank stock fell 13%.


    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/20/b...aud/index.html

    S faces a massive financial penalty in France after a court there ruled that the Swiss bank helped its wealthy clients avoid taxes.
    The court delivered its verdict in Paris on Wednesday, ordering the bank to pay €4.5 billion ($5.1 billion) and finding it guilty of money laundering and illegal client solicitations.
    The fines include €800 million ($907 million) in civil damages payable to the French state.

    Shares in UBS (UBS) dropped sharply after the verdict was announced, trading down 4.2% in Switzerland. The fines are roughly equal to the bank's net profits for 2018.
    Ouch those fines must have hurt.
    Do you think it is very different in the US. Or the UK for that matter. The only difference I see is that the EU countries actually do something about it. In the US and the UK it is just swept under the mat.

    And don't get me started about countries like Singapore (or Malaya) ...

  11. #2771
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Europe seems to be having a bit of a habit when it comes to handling dirty money.

    Have some of todays headlines:

    https://www.svt.se/special/swedbank/english/

    One of the largest banks in Sweden, Swedbank, may have been used for extensive, systematic money laundering for nearly a decade. A total of USD 5.8 billion has been funneled between suspect accounts in Swedbank and Danske Bank in the Baltics. Of this, USD 26 million is linked to the Russian tax fraud that was uncovered by accountant Sergei Magnitsky.
    Swedbank stock fell 13%.


    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/20/b...aud/index.html

    S faces a massive financial penalty in France after a court there ruled that the Swiss bank helped its wealthy clients avoid taxes.
    The court delivered its verdict in Paris on Wednesday, ordering the bank to pay €4.5 billion ($5.1 billion) and finding it guilty of money laundering and illegal client solicitations.
    The fines include €800 million ($907 million) in civil damages payable to the French state.

    Shares in UBS (UBS) dropped sharply after the verdict was announced, trading down 4.2% in Switzerland. The fines are roughly equal to the bank's net profits for 2018.
    Ouch those fines must have hurt.
    them's some damned rookie numbers there, real rookie numbers there. this is how you do it.

    (and yes, i realize it's basically the same case, but the fact that Danske basically got to go "woops!" fire a few folks in upper management, and get kicked out of Estonia as a result is a fucking farce and a half.)
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  12. #2772
    Caldrion Dosto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Europe seems to be having a bit of a habit when it comes to handling dirty money.

    Have some of todays headlines:

    https://www.svt.se/special/swedbank/english/

    One of the largest banks in Sweden, Swedbank, may have been used for extensive, systematic money laundering for nearly a decade. A total of USD 5.8 billion has been funneled between suspect accounts in Swedbank and Danske Bank in the Baltics. Of this, USD 26 million is linked to the Russian tax fraud that was uncovered by accountant Sergei Magnitsky.
    Swedbank stock fell 13%.


    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/20/b...aud/index.html

    S faces a massive financial penalty in France after a court there ruled that the Swiss bank helped its wealthy clients avoid taxes.
    The court delivered its verdict in Paris on Wednesday, ordering the bank to pay €4.5 billion ($5.1 billion) and finding it guilty of money laundering and illegal client solicitations.
    The fines include €800 million ($907 million) in civil damages payable to the French state.

    Shares in UBS (UBS) dropped sharply after the verdict was announced, trading down 4.2% in Switzerland. The fines are roughly equal to the bank's net profits for 2018.
    Ouch those fines must have hurt.
    them's some damned rookie numbers there, real rookie numbers there. this is how you do it.

    (and yes, i realize it's basically the same case, but the fact that Danske basically got to go "woops!" fire a few folks in upper management, and get kicked out of Estonia as a result is a fucking farce and a half.)

    Danske is not being "slapped on the wrist" it just takes more time to punish them. And losing license to operate in Baltics probably cost them around 500 Milion Euro/year.

    And the fines will be in atleast the scale of UBS above. And its still unclear if US will pull dollar clearing or not (If they do Danske will go bancrupt over night).

  13. #2773
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Danske is not being "slapped on the wrist" it just takes more time to punish them. And losing license to operate in Baltics probably cost them around 500 Milion Euro/year.

    And the fines will be in atleast the scale of UBS above. And its still unclear if US will pull dollar clearing or not (If they do Danske will go bancrupt over night).
    i am literately describing the extend of sanctions carried out in Denmark as a response thus far, the relevant authorities are busy having a slap-stick fight with the estonians over who is responsibility it was to actually keep track of things, and the chief of said authority got chopped yesterday in part because of that, after they released a report completely absolving themselves of any sort of oversight failure, apparently that was too far beyond the pale in a election year, good effort tho!

    best case estimates has the actual court cases starting 2-5 years from now, possibly, maybe, there is zero indication of anything meaningful is going to come out of that beyond a bunch of fines that will invariably be paid by whatever customers happen to be left, either way Danske itself is going precisely nowhere due to the structural nature of the bank in regards to the Danish economy. (TLDR : fucking them too hard means the mortgage market blows up, and that takes EVERYTHING and the fucking kitchen sink with it down the drain)

    the relevant golden parachutes have already been deployed, the upper management responsible has already left the sinking ship to, worst case, a comfortable retirement package sized several times the lifetime income of a median citizen. and thus far ten patsies have gotten picked up in Estonia for questioning, looks like a well done caper to me tbh.
    Last edited by Liare; February 21 2019 at 08:56:19 PM.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  14. #2774
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    Is this related to the estonian banks scandal which KPMG and EY did stellar auditing work for?
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  15. #2775
    Liare's Avatar
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    well, you got the right auditors for the scandal in question Kecks, not sure it's the same scandal tho.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  16. #2776

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    well, you got the right auditors for the scandal in question Kecks, not sure it's the same scandal tho.
    Yes it is. The big five have their fingers in all these pies. Check 'Lootin' with Putin' in the eye for a complete breakdown. It's not the first, but it connects all the dots, down to the actors involved. The Ukrainian/Estonian/Danish laundrymat is just one part of the big picture. The prime suspects have already made for the exit. The smart ones are already living it up in some sunny tax haven.

    For all their holier than though attitude, the Danish are in this up to the gills. Still pushing it on everyone else they can find. Danske, Maersk, they're not even the real players ...

  17. #2777
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Who are the real players?
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  18. #2778
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Who are the real players?


    You tellin me those maersk container ships dont voltron up? Forgetasboutit

  19. #2779
    Liare's Avatar
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    shut up about that Duckslayer, it's supposed to be the secret counter to the IKEA minefields.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  20. #2780
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    http://fortune.com/2019/03/11/russia-germany-pipeline/
    http://tass.com/economy/1048310

    big bad putin strangling eastern europe by denying them transit fees
    murica wants to sell it's overpriced gas from another hemisphere
    germoney has to keep lights running
    Last edited by RazoR; March 12 2019 at 02:17:00 PM.

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