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View Poll Results: What do you believe in?

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  • There is no such thing as "morality" that influences my actions - it's just a social/religious convention there to control people.

    1 1.75%
  • There are objective moral truths arising from some kind of divine source. We may not always know it, but there is a "correct" answer.

    3 5.26%
  • There are objective moral truths arising from human nature (or other non-divine source). We may not always know it, but there is a "correct" answer

    4 7.02%
  • There are no objective moral truths, but its possible to derive near-universal subjective moral truths that ought to apply to all of humanity.

    13 22.81%
  • Morality applies humanity-wide, but changes over time. What was moral 1000 years ago may be immoral now.

    6 10.53%
  • Morality is relative to the society of the person being assessed. What is moral in Japan may be (and probably is) immoral in the USA.

    8 14.04%
  • Morality is relative to each individual. I have my own moral code but its different from everyone else's.

    3 5.26%
  • Morality is absolutely relative and thus pretty much meaningless.

    4 7.02%
  • I am a nihilist, we believe in nothing.

    1 1.75%
  • I am a big child that needs a comedy option in every poll.

    14 24.56%
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Thread: Morality

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by F18 View Post
    Slavery was never accpted by the people who were enslaved. It was always morally wrong. Stupid.
    Besides the usual provided counter points.

    They weren't people and thus morals didn't apply to them. So by that standards it was perfectly normal.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    What do you believe?
    Polls needs to be checkboxes, not option buttons.

    I'd say it's a combination/mixture of
    - Morality is relative to the society of the person being assessed. What is moral in Japan may be (and probably is) immoral in the USA.
    - Morality is relative to each individual. I have my own moral code but its different from everyone else'.

    The later is a bit misleading. While I think mine's different from everyone else', it also shares large parts with everyone else (in my society).

  3. #23
    Smuggo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    What do you believe?
    Polls needs to be checkboxes, not option buttons.

    I'd say it's a combination/mixture of
    - Morality is relative to the society of the person being assessed. What is moral in Japan may be (and probably is) immoral in the USA.
    - Morality is relative to each individual. I have my own moral code but its different from everyone else'.

    The later is a bit misleading. While I think mine's different from everyone else', it also shares large parts with everyone else (in my society).
    What's your stance on OP is a faggot?


  4. #24
    OrangeAfroMan's Avatar
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    mols/litre
    Actually an '06.

    EVE: OrangeAfroMan
    Dust514: Andrelommech
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    www.twitch.tv/oameve

  5. #25
    Sp4m's Avatar
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    oh yeah because morality is just a fucking tick in the box is it

  6. #26
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    What do you believe?
    Polls needs to be checkboxes, not option buttons.

    I'd say it's a combination/mixture of
    - Morality is relative to the society of the person being assessed. What is moral in Japan may be (and probably is) immoral in the USA.
    - Morality is relative to each individual. I have my own moral code but its different from everyone else'.

    The later is a bit misleading. While I think mine's different from everyone else', it also shares large parts with everyone else (in my society).
    What's your stance on OP is a faggot?
    Well, it's a given that all OPs are faggots. Not worth wasting a vote on that.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sp4m View Post
    oh yeah because morality is just a fucking tick in the box is it
    Yes, now please tick a box and move on.


  8. #28
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    Morality is literally just a word.
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  9. #29
    Movember 2012 Elriche Oshego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Morality is literally just a word.
    But is OP a fag?

  10. #30
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    C
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  11. #31
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Counterpoints - does it matter whether we "got it right" provided we are moving in the right direction? Do we really accept that slavery only "became" morally wrong once it was no longer generally accepted as being morally ok? If so how did that change occur?
    To your first question, no I suppose not - but I would respond by asking how a society can know which direction is the right one. Without foreknowledge of the future the best we can do is to try and reason which choice is "best", based on the existing ethical framework. Moral drift over time, then, is partly a case of the Ship of Theseus.

    But I think it's worth pointing out that not all change is "forward" progress, and it's only with the benefit of hindsight that we can claim to know which changes resulted in progress and which in regress. Take for instance the example of prohibition in the United States; society decided that criminalizing the consumption of alcohol was progress, and then later decided that it would be better overall to roll back that change. I would be surprised if, in all of history, this is the only example of a cultural change for the worse.

    To your second question, I think we must accept that slavery only "became" wrong one society decided it was so. To argue otherwise invites the question: if slavery was always wrong regardless of cultural convention, where did that "wrongness" come from? Did the concept of slavery become wrong the first time one human enslaved another? Or did the concept itself exist before there was a word for it, and was it always wrong then as well? Was the wrongness of slavery baked into the initial conditions of the big bang? And if so, was the first society to outlaw slavery the first in history to glimpse that universal truth?

    I don't think it's possible to argue that morality is anything but a construct created by humans, at least without also arguing the existence of an omniscient creator. But just because I believe morality to be a human creation doesn't mean I believe it has no value - on the contrary, it has exactly as much value as we project onto it.
    I see morality as a decision making framework you can derive from human nature. Ultimately its a scaled up, much abstracted, generalised and collective version of "do unto others" or "act consistently with the world you want to live in".

    Thus slavery has always been wrong, but the meaningfulness of "wrongness" requires conscious decision making.

  12. #32
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elriche Oshego View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Morality is literally just a word.
    But is OP a fag?
    c

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    I see morality as a decision making framework you can derive from human nature. Ultimately its a scaled up, much abstracted, generalised and collective version of "do unto others" or "act consistently with the world you want to live in".

    Thus slavery has always been wrong, but the meaningfulness of "wrongness" requires conscious decision making.
    Can entire cultures be judged from a moral point of view? In your opinion
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  14. #34
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    I see morality as a decision making framework you can derive from human nature. Ultimately its a scaled up, much abstracted, generalised and collective version of "do unto others" or "act consistently with the world you want to live in".

    Thus slavery has always been wrong, but the meaningfulness of "wrongness" requires conscious decision making.
    Can entire cultures be judged from a moral point of view? In your opinion
    In theory sure why not?

    In practice who is to say what is or isnt an aspect of that culture? Any cultural label you pick, then choose a moral value of, then judge, there will be loads of people who consider themselves that label, don't hold that moral value (nor think it inherent to the label) and thus aren't fairly treated by your judgement.

    You can be much more accurate by picking out specific values, rather than cultures as a whole. E.g. not "The roman empire was morally wrong because it endorsed slavery", but rather "slavery is/was wrong, the Roman empire's lack of respect for individual human rights that led to them embracing slavery was morally wrong."

  15. #35
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    What if every time you enslaved someone you got a Jaffa cake?


  16. #36
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    Morality, a word sanctimonous pricks like to throw around to hide the flaws in their own souls.
    go away

  17. #37
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    There is a huge correlation between "people who think morality is non-existent or meaningless" and "utter cunts who act like sociopaths".

  18. #38
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    There's an even larger correlation between people preaching about morality and assholes. In fact the factor is 1:1.
    go away

  19. #39
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoggbert View Post
    There's an even larger correlation between people preaching about morality and assholes. In fact the factor is 1:1.
    believing morality is an important thing and "preaching" about it are completely different things.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    What if every time you enslaved someone you got a Jaffa cake?
    McVities is part of the capitalist machine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

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