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View Poll Results: What do you believe in?

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  • There is no such thing as "morality" that influences my actions - it's just a social/religious convention there to control people.

    1 1.75%
  • There are objective moral truths arising from some kind of divine source. We may not always know it, but there is a "correct" answer.

    3 5.26%
  • There are objective moral truths arising from human nature (or other non-divine source). We may not always know it, but there is a "correct" answer

    4 7.02%
  • There are no objective moral truths, but its possible to derive near-universal subjective moral truths that ought to apply to all of humanity.

    13 22.81%
  • Morality applies humanity-wide, but changes over time. What was moral 1000 years ago may be immoral now.

    6 10.53%
  • Morality is relative to the society of the person being assessed. What is moral in Japan may be (and probably is) immoral in the USA.

    8 14.04%
  • Morality is relative to each individual. I have my own moral code but its different from everyone else's.

    3 5.26%
  • Morality is absolutely relative and thus pretty much meaningless.

    4 7.02%
  • I am a nihilist, we believe in nothing.

    1 1.75%
  • I am a big child that needs a comedy option in every poll.

    14 24.56%
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Thread: Morality

  1. #1
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Morality

    What do you believe?
    Last edited by Lallante; March 13 2017 at 06:18:59 PM.

  2. #2
    Duckslayer's Avatar
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    x OP is a faggot

  3. #3
    Donor Aea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    x OP is a faggot
    Where are my multiple options OP?

  4. #4
    Smuggo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    x OP is a faggot
    ^learn to poll noob. Mods delete until he does it properly.

  5. #5
    Movember 2012 Stoffl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    x OP is a faggot

  6. #6
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Morality is absolutely relative and thus pretty much meaningless, but lets fight and kill each other over it anyway.
    "Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong." Jean-Jacques Rousseau



  7. #7
    Steph's Avatar
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    I'm curious what prompted this poll, naturally, but it's an interesting topic so here's a serious response.

    I picked "morality changes over time". I'd also have picked the one about near-universal subjective truths but the "changes over time" bit is I think the more important factor.

    It's trivially easy to look back through history and find cultures who celebrated customs and practises that we today would find abhorrent. But I think it would be arrogant to conclude that, in ten thousand years of human civilization, we today are the first generation in history to finally get it right. If you were to ask someone from each generation of history whether their ethics were an improvement over their ancestors', and if they has finally derived the final true system of morality, each and every one would say yes to both.

    This is why, for instance, phrases like "The right side of history" so irritate me.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
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  8. #8
    Movember 2012 Elriche Oshego's Avatar
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    Nihilist was the comedy option.

    Last edited by Elriche Oshego; March 13 2017 at 06:41:58 PM.

  9. #9
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    I'm curious what prompted this poll, naturally, but it's an interesting topic so here's a serious response.

    I picked "morality changes over time". I'd also have picked the one about near-universal subjective truths but the "changes over time" bit is I think the more important factor.

    It's trivially easy to look back through history and find cultures who celebrated customs and practises that we today would find abhorrent. But I think it would be arrogant to conclude that, in ten thousand years of human civilization, we today are the first generation in history to finally get it right. If you were to ask someone from each generation of history whether their ethics were an improvement over their ancestors', and if they has finally derived the final true system of morality, each and every one would say yes to both.

    This is why, for instance, phrases like "The right side of history" so irritate me.
    Counterpoints - does it matter whether we "got it right" provided we are moving in the right direction? Do we really accept that slavery only "became" morally wrong once it was no longer generally accepted as being morally ok? If so how did that change occur?

  10. #10
    Donor F18's Avatar
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    Slavery was never accpted by the people who were enslaved. It was always morally wrong. Stupid.
    RIP Xenosisreaper 04.11.2015

  11. #11
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F18 View Post
    Slavery was never accpted by the people who were enslaved. It was always morally wrong. Stupid.
    And yet humanity engaged in the practice for most of 5,000 years.

    Did I mention how morality is pretty much meaningless?
    "Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong." Jean-Jacques Rousseau



  12. #12
    Donor Tellenta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F18 View Post
    Slavery was never accpted by the people who were enslaved.
    You sure about that? I can counter that with a lazy google search.

  13. #13
    Steph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Counterpoints - does it matter whether we "got it right" provided we are moving in the right direction? Do we really accept that slavery only "became" morally wrong once it was no longer generally accepted as being morally ok? If so how did that change occur?
    To your first question, no I suppose not - but I would respond by asking how a society can know which direction is the right one. Without foreknowledge of the future the best we can do is to try and reason which choice is "best", based on the existing ethical framework. Moral drift over time, then, is partly a case of the Ship of Theseus.

    But I think it's worth pointing out that not all change is "forward" progress, and it's only with the benefit of hindsight that we can claim to know which changes resulted in progress and which in regress. Take for instance the example of prohibition in the United States; society decided that criminalizing the consumption of alcohol was progress, and then later decided that it would be better overall to roll back that change. I would be surprised if, in all of history, this is the only example of a cultural change for the worse.

    To your second question, I think we must accept that slavery only "became" wrong one society decided it was so. To argue otherwise invites the question: if slavery was always wrong regardless of cultural convention, where did that "wrongness" come from? Did the concept of slavery become wrong the first time one human enslaved another? Or did the concept itself exist before there was a word for it, and was it always wrong then as well? Was the wrongness of slavery baked into the initial conditions of the big bang? And if so, was the first society to outlaw slavery the first in history to glimpse that universal truth?

    I don't think it's possible to argue that morality is anything but a construct created by humans, at least without also arguing the existence of an omniscient creator. But just because I believe morality to be a human creation doesn't mean I believe it has no value - on the contrary, it has exactly as much value as we project onto it.
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  14. #14
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoffl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    x OP is a faggot


    

  15. #15

  16. #16
    Smarnca's Avatar
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    tl:dr
    Quote Originally Posted by pesadelo View Post
    - Smarnca if not trolling , is a complete retard

    Quote Originally Posted by Seraph IX Basarab View Post
    In short, you're prime beta.

  17. #17
    Donor Tellenta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    tl:dr
    tl;dr is a moral fallacy.

  18. #18
    Movember 2012 I Legionnaire's Avatar
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    Morality is a concept born of Western thinking, thus all of humanity is to be judged by Western moral standards.

  19. #19
    Varcaus's Avatar
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    Is this were you ask if it's moral to kill the poor lall?

  20. #20
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F18 View Post
    Slavery was never accpted by the people who were enslaved. It was always morally wrong. Stupid.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Tom

    Last edited by Nordstern; March 14 2017 at 02:12:34 AM.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
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