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Thread: Computer problem

  1. #1

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    Computer problem

    I'm looking for a bit of insight from someone smarter than me and I hope you lot can help me.

    I'm running a Windows 10 64 bit machine for some time and it has been working great. The last few weeks it has started to freeze at random points and now it is at the point where it freezes a with in a few minutes of booting to desktop. Now it does not completely freeze. I can move the mouse and shift focus on program, but any program I click on will be brought to the front and promptly freeze. If I bring the mouse to the taskbar the icon becomes the circle (the one that means it's working) but I can still move the mouse. There is no response from the keyboard.

    I have run a scan for errors and bad sectors on the hard drive and that turned up nothing. I am running a memtest right now. It's at 80% and no errors yet.

    Booting into safe mode will result in the same. It "freezes" within a few minutes, but I can still move the mouse.

    Anyone got any idea what might be the cause of these symptoms?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated as it is my gaming rig and I had not counted on having to buy a new one just yet.

    EDIT: Memtest done, 0 errors.
    Last edited by Renox; February 11 2017 at 07:01:08 PM.

  2. #2
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Internal temps? How often is it cleaned of dust? How careful were you when last doing so/changing anything inside?

    If not temps, check PSU.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    Internal temps? How often is it cleaned of dust? How careful were you when last doing so/changing anything inside?

    If not temps, check PSU.
    The temperatures are ok and I haven't changed anything in it in more than a year.

    Checking the PSU is a good idea. Unfortunately I don't have a spare lying around. I'll see if I can't find or borrow one somewhere.

  4. #4
    walrus's Avatar
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    Do you have a Crucial M4 SSD?
      Spoiler:
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  5. #5

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    I had a similar issue with conflicting drivers.

    One was totally my fault, used an image of a Dell Latitude to set up another one (same line of Latitude, but different specs). Worke good in theory, but frooze after some time. Turned out the image had two different display drivers, as that machine had an external display port which wasn't present on the faulty machine.

    The other one was different audio drivers. Don't ask me how that happened, as the machine were set up from scratch utilizing the provided drivers CD-ROM and let it handle the hardware identification.

  6. #6
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    FWIW graphics drivers can interact with audio drivers and devices, being as graphics cards support audio over HDMI/DisplayPort, as well as hardware accelerated encoding & decoding for recording and streaming/viewing.
    Had some personal fun previously with AMD HDMI driver interacting with a USB headset pre-Win7.

    Renox, there's nothing in the windows Event viewer?
    Also walrus has a decent point about drive firmware. You may not see sector errors but you can still have the device restarting or renegotiating on the bus/other kinds of derping. Not sure if S.M.A.R.T. shows anything if the firmware's unreliable.
    Last edited by Daneel Trevize; February 12 2017 at 01:35:16 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    Do you have a Crucial M4 SSD?
    No, a Samsung 830 SSD

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    FWIW graphics drivers can interact with audio drivers and devices, being as graphics cards support audio over HDMI/DisplayPort, as well as hardware accelerated encoding & decoding for recording and streaming/viewing.
    Had some personal fun previously with AMD HDMI driver interacting with a USB headset pre-Win7.

    Renox, there's nothing in the windows Event viewer?
    Also walrus has a decent point about drive firmware. You may not see sector errors but you can still have the device restarting or renegotiating on the bus/other kinds of derping. Not sure if S.M.A.R.T. shows anything if the firmware's unreliable.
    I haven't been able to find anything in the event viewer that looks like it is the cause of the freezes. I have also tried a restore to previously working state and that didn't do anything.

    Some times it also hangs during boot before it enters the desktop.

    I will hopefully get my hands on another PSU today so I can test that theory.

  9. #9
    FatFreddy's Avatar
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    GPU conflicting with internal GPU?
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot
    Pastry.. That the best you can do?
    Quote Originally Posted by NotXenosis View Post

    M8, i have discussions that spam multiple accounts, you aren't even on my level

  10. #10
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    You might need to try unplugging/disabling all possible devices, external and internal (e.g. 1 RAM stick, only IGP or graphics card, etc). If you have wireless mouse/keyboard, try new batteries if you can't try wired ones instead. Try a different screen, and also the same on different output ports. Just about any combo of the fewest things to see if you can isolate what's causing it, if it isn't something like the mobo or PSU.

    If you have a drive that's only got media you can reacquire easily, try remove all other drives, format the media one and boot a simple linux install (i.e. Mint or Ubuntu). Or if you have an optical drive or spare pen drive, disconnect all others and try a Live ISO boot.

    If you're in the EU, look into your options via Distant Sellers legislation to have a new mobo and PSU shipped to you (maybe also RAM), that you can use to test with but still send back without needing to give a reason within ~10days.
    Last edited by Daneel Trevize; February 13 2017 at 09:13:40 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  11. #11

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    Short update:

    So installed another PSU and try to boot. Seems my installation is now so broken that it will only enter the repair state. I can't get it to start up normally.

    I try to reinstall but receive a 0x800701E3 error during the "Preparing files for installation" part which says that the required files are not available. That's a far as I got last night. I'll continue tonight.

  12. #12
    FatFreddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatFreddy View Post
    GPU conflicting with internal GPU?
    ? I've had a somehwat similar problem - weird freezes - like this twice (second time it was after a reinstall, thankfully it only took me an afternoon to remember the previous time ), in my case it was solved when I made sure the internal/onboard GPU (Intel) was completely disabled.

    My moneys' on, in no particular order:

    -> Windows itself has gone bleurgh, perhaps to a driver issue. Done any driver updates recently?
    -> could lead to funky workings between dedicated and onboard GPU
    -> dedicated GPU is having issues
    -> CPU is having issues


    Have you you already checked the CPU?

    Was there any situation in the recent past where you could have overheated your system?

    And do you have have a Win7 you could try instead?

    (And tbh, I wouldn't have assumed the PSU as the problem first in such a case.)

    In any case, I'd strongly advocate establishing a war plan first before you create too much hassle for yourself, like exchanging components one after the other with no clear plan, which could be avoidable.
    Last edited by FatFreddy; February 15 2017 at 03:39:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot
    Pastry.. That the best you can do?
    Quote Originally Posted by NotXenosis View Post

    M8, i have discussions that spam multiple accounts, you aren't even on my level

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatFreddy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FatFreddy View Post
    GPU conflicting with internal GPU?
    ? I've had a somehwat similar problem - weird freezes - like this twice (second time it was after a reinstall, thankfully it only took me an afternoon to remember the previous time ), in my case it was solved when I made sure the internal/onboard GPU (Intel) was completely disabled.

    My moneys' on, in no particular order:

    -> Windows itself has gone bleurgh, perhaps to a driver issue. Done any driver updates recently?
    -> could lead to funky workings between dedicated and onboard GPU
    -> dedicated GPU is having issues
    -> CPU is having issues


    Have you you already checked the CPU?

    Was there any situation in the recent past where you could have overheated your system?

    And do you have have a Win7 you could try instead?

    (And tbh, I wouldn't have assumed the PSU as the problem first in such a case.)

    In any case, I'd strongly advocate establishing a war plan first before you create too much hassle for yourself, like exchanging components one after the other with no clear plan, which could be avoidable.
    Found out why it will not boot, and why it windows won't install. Ran chkdsk again in my ssd and now it finds a lot of bad clusters. I get the error.:
    The disk does not have enough space to replace bad clusters.

    So I guess this is what it looks like when a ssd dies. I am certain that I scanned it at the start of all this and it showed on then.

    I will try to install on my secondary disk to see if the rest works on

    Edit: Well, that didn't work. Seems my secondary drive is dead. It is not spinning up when powered on. WTF happened to this computer?
    Last edited by Renox; February 15 2017 at 06:33:35 PM.

  14. #14
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    If an IO controller on the mobo's dying, you'd get something similar. Maybe try boot off of USB drive, or ethernet storage, to bypass the SATA connectors & chips and see that the rest of the hardware's ok?
    IIRC a mobo chipset southbridge will provide some SATA controllers (e.g.4), the other connections a board might have are from a separate chip.
    Again, a Live Linux ISO from USB/DVD/Eth would be able to diagnose issues without needing to find a harddrive to install onto.
    If you can't do that, at least try all the different SATA connectors with your existing devices to see if you can find some that work better than others.

    Also (backup, should have done this regularly before ofc, then) format the SDD via another machine. I don't think TRIM support would be a factor then, even if it possibly is atm.

    edit: do be sure you correctly connected the power to the drives & mobo (can be at several points, 1 by the CPU) after swapping PSU.
    Last edited by Daneel Trevize; February 15 2017 at 07:06:15 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    If an IO controller on the mobo's dying, you'd get something similar. Maybe try boot off of USB drive, or ethernet storage, to bypass the SATA connectors & chips and see that the rest of the hardware's ok?
    IIRC a mobo chipset southbridge will provide some SATA controllers (e.g.4), the other connections a board might have are from a separate chip.
    Again, a Live Linux ISO from USB/DVD/Eth would be able to diagnose issues without needing to find a harddrive to install onto.
    If you can't do that, at least try all the different SATA connectors with your existing devices to see if you can find some that work better than others.

    Also (backup, should have done this regularly before ofc, then) format the SDD via another machine. I don't think TRIM support would be a factor then, even if it possibly is atm.

    edit: do be sure you correctly connected the power to the drives & mobo (can be at several points, 1 by the CPU) after swapping PSU.
    I've tried connecting my secondary hdd to my laptop using a sata to USB 3 dock and still nothing so pretty confident that it is fried. I can read the SSD doing that though, so I'll try to see if I have anything critical on it, which I shouldn't have.

    The PSU should be connected correctly. I've double and triple checked it by now.

    Good idea with the live linux usb. I'll try that now.

  16. #16

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    Trying to scan my SSD for errors on my laptop. How should I go about doing this? If I check the SMART stats it says health good, but if I do a Right click ssd->Properties->Error Scan then it reports errors... can both be correct?

  17. #17
    Donor Aea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renox View Post
    Trying to scan my SSD for errors on my laptop. How should I go about doing this? If I check the SMART stats it says health good, but if I do a Right click ssd->Properties->Error Scan then it reports errors... can both be correct?
    Yes, SMART only reports on a subset of potential errors, missing about a third of drive failures.

  18. #18
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    SMART is worthless, never trust anything it says. If you're getting repeated filesystem errors when scanning then the drive or SATA controller is bad.

  19. #19
    Donor Aea's Avatar
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    Well positive SMART results are reliable. Negative, huge grain of salt.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  20. #20
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Dead/dieing SSDs can completely mask an issue for ages. Block relocation can sometimes fuck up (I'm guessing it corrupted some non critical system files at first) and won't report dick because they are built to have blocks die...
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
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