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Thread: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspective

  1. #161
    The Monkeysphere's Avatar
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    Re: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspecti

    I did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raimo
    Quote Originally Posted by Raivi
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  2. #162
    GiDiYi's Avatar
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    Re: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspecti

    Quote Originally Posted by Leeloo
    You could make an argument that while AT might not create new subscribers it is one small part of the things in EVE that keep current subscribers interested.
    I can absolutely confirm this and would sign this statement.

    I still think that Hydra fucked up the final match, but they probably know that by now.

    But the AT as an institution is one of the factors, that still make me pay a (meaning multiple) subscription(s). In fact I stopped paying for my accounts about 6 months ago and was shitting several forums up about quitting and giving my super away and stuff like that.

    But the usual stuff (mainly the friends within my corp) and not by the least bit the announcement of the tourney made me return and resub my lapsed accounts.

    I can absolutely guarantee that the tournament is an inhibitor in regards to dropping retention rates.

    And I don't mean this in a -way, but more a -way.

  3. #163
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    Re: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspecti

    Interesting corollary question (maybe only to me, but still):

    How much of the anger from the general EVE populace -- those people that mostly enjoy the AT for items A and C in Raivi's post -- do you suppose is directed at Hydra/0utbreak regarding these players:
    a) having to spend time/money/:effort: watching an obviously fixed final match, vs.
    b) being generally pissed because this is yet one more thing about EVE that is now controlled by the old-school "been in since beta" EVE players that dominate so many facets of the game?

    These factors don't affect new subscribers, but they both serve to increase the overall :bittervet: quotient of the existing subscribers, and might even drive a few people off here and there.
    Ripard Teg (among others)... what's our new alliance called again?
    I was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer, to good effect. Or at least, that's what most of EVE believes.

  4. #164
    Larkonis Trassler's Avatar
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    Re: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspecti

    [center:293ilcad][youtube:293ilcad]FsqJFIJ5lLs[/youtube:293ilcad][/center:293ilcad]

    I honestly can't understand the butthurt.

    At the end of the day Hydra and Outbreak did nothing wrong. They may have played the system to their advantage slightly in the group stages but I'm pretty sure that's happened throughout the ages sports of the IRL and e variety. Backroom deals, spying, it all goes on for reals.

    Everyone had their chance to beat them. They just had to be better.

    With regards to the final, I can recall more terrible finals and one that was definitely won due to genuine cheating. They fucked up putting on a show. So what? It was quite a good tourney up to that point with some surprisingly good and close matches in what is, normally, far more of a rock, paper, scissors game than TQ.


  5. #165

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    Re: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspecti

    I think (a) mostly. At least, that's what I was thinking. I saw the Vindis and I was like "OMG VINDIS", then Outbreak was owning errything and I was like "OMG UPSET", then they stopped firing and I was like "omg rigged ". Massive anti-climax is all.

    I'd heard rumblings it was rigged before, but only because I hang with dudes who have friends who have inside knowledge. The vast majority of the 28000 people watching the final couldn't have known.

    The oldschool argument is, I think, a tiny part of it. A much larger part is the disillusionment with the tournament and frustration with CCP that such obvious rigging is allowed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler
    They may have played the system to their advantage slightly in the group stages but I'm pretty sure that's happened throughout the ages sports of the IRL and e variety.
    Yes, it has, but you can't ruin the show. If it was obvious that football matches were rigged, people would riot. People like the illusion of reality, and the AT participants so far have been utterly terrible at faking it - whether intentionally or not.

    For a participant, the AT is about the other 200 people participating, but for the other 27,800 viewers the participants are largely irrelevant. I've already brought out the analogy of managers debating the terms of a rigged football match while actually playing the match, with their players not doing anything for 10 minutes, yet it seems to be hard for participants to swallow that this might make viewers angry.

  6. #166
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    Re: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspecti

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester
    b) being generally pissed because this is yet one more thing about EVE that is now controlled by the old-school "been in since beta" EVE players that dominate so many facets of the game?
    Surely that is not a factor. Also, HYDRA is relatively "new school" in comparison (hell, for example my main is effectively just a lowly '07, a 70m SP newbie! )

    But actually, we did have some pretty lowish SP (30m?) people aboard who have trained for a good long while to max out some facet of the AT gameplay like a bomber. Of course there's a core of decent SP pilots but definitely less than what for example PL has, I'd say.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dwergi
    For a participant, the AT is about the other 200 people participating, but for the other 27,800 viewers the participants are largely irrelevant. I've already brought out the analogy of managers debating the terms of a rigged football match while actually playing the match, with their players not doing anything for 10 minutes, yet it seems to be hard for participants to swallow that this might make viewers angry.
    Who are these participants you speak of, btw?

  7. #167

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    Re: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspecti

    Quote Originally Posted by Raimo
    Who are these participants you speak of, btw?
    ...

    What's your point?

  8. #168
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    Re: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspecti

    Personally I hadn't considered the old-school angle or seen it mentioned anywhere else before. I mean, plenty of older alliances were shit at ATs. Ships/pilots being fielded can be trained to max in a year for the most part and fully viable as mains. The isk put down is limited by the rules on pimpage->flagship and things like no T2 rigs. It's really down to who's good with the theorycrafting and meta-gaming in my mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  9. #169
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    Re: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspecti

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwergi
    Quote Originally Posted by Raimo
    Who are these participants you speak of, btw?
    ...

    What's your point?
    I asked 1st

  10. #170
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    Re: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspecti

    Quote Originally Posted by Raimo
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester
    b) being generally pissed because this is yet one more thing about EVE that is now controlled by the old-school "been in since beta" EVE players that dominate so many facets of the game?
    Surely that is not a factor.
    Maybe. I'm just picking up what feels like higher-level blow-back from your apology thread on the EVE-O forums. Stuff like these (there's more, but these are just quick examples):

    http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.as ... page=4#107
    http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.as ... page=5#145
    http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.as ... page=6#162
    http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.as ... page=7#192

    As I said, just seems to be higher level than simple rage over a single obviously fixed match. Maybe easily written off as tears. Or just maybe... not.
    Ripard Teg (among others)... what's our new alliance called again?
    I was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer, to good effect. Or at least, that's what most of EVE believes.

  11. #171
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    Re: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspecti

    This is literally PL, Hydra and Darkside:
    [spoiler:m7eb3x5m][youtube:m7eb3x5m]iVvRWVoHDb8[/youtube:m7eb3x5m][/spoiler:m7eb3x5m]

  12. #172
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Re: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspecti

    Damn, that is some flying. WTB outtakes/practice footage.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  13. #173

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    Re: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspecti

    Quote Originally Posted by Raimo
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwergi
    Quote Originally Posted by Raimo
    Who are these participants you speak of, btw?
    ...

    What's your point?
    I asked 1st
    I honestly don't know what your question is. I just meant the 400-odd players who actually played in matches during the tournament as the "participants". Some of those probably weren't particularly serious, unfortunately.

  14. #174

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    Re: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspecti

    Quote Originally Posted by Resi
    This is literally PL, Hydra and Darkside:
    [spoiler:3a7wwsw5][youtube:3a7wwsw5]iVvRWVoHDb8[/youtube:3a7wwsw5][/spoiler:3a7wwsw5]
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  15. #175
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    Re: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspecti

    Quote Originally Posted by Raivi
    It has a lot to do with the fact that it doesn't give any bumps in subscribers and they are a business after all.

    Honestly the small support CCP gives financially and by allowing the tournament team to use their dev/gm powers and create new ships is fairly impressive when you consider it's basically a business loss that isn't giving them a measurable profit.
    Hi Ravi, I wanted to ask you a couple of things, first off, You say CCP don't see the tournament as a great benefit to them because it doesn't represent monitory value in terms of new subscribers, fair enough. We can all understand the reasoning behind that.

    However, I wanted to know if they see it's value as a good tool to keep the current player base informed. Their is a lot of devs who come onto the show, who get a chance to explain who they are, and what they do, something they wouldn't be able to do otherwise, This is something Unique they have over other mmo's and it's my belief, that this brings alot of eve players a little closer to understanding the Visions they have for the game we all play and pay for.

    Not to mention, it's damn good fun to watch for the masses who enjoy the whole show, (Any idea on Viewer numbers?) Last year the forums were alight with people bitching about the commentary team, specially that woman without a clue. This year however, I and many others believe they got the perfect team involved and credit where credit is due, the forums were alight with praise for them.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is despite what happened in the Final, the whole Tournament was a success, and is my belief that, despite their numbers showing that it doesn't bring new subscriptions it does go along way to help keep the player base it currently has. That can't be a bad thing.
    I asked for some advice in a department store about a gift for someone special.

    The sales assistant said "we have a beautiful selection of gold necklaces and diamond rings just in".

    I replied "no thanks, the fucking spastic will just eat those, got any Spiderman bibs?"

  16. #176
    Artjay's Avatar
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    Re: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspecti

    Great read Duncan thanks for the write up!

    Fist encountered Hydra (on tranquillity - knew of them form previous alliance tournaments) when they beat us again and again and again when I was in brick squad. I had respect for you then, this just increased it by +10. Totally deserved 1st & 2nd place, although knife fight to the death would have been nice.
    The existence of space means the existence of pirates.

  17. #177
    Dr. Nguyen Van Phuoc's Avatar
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    Re: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspecti

    Good work, shame about the final, quality CCP trolling

  18. #178
    Donor Rans's Avatar
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    Re: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspecti

    Quote Originally Posted by Sneakyfool
    Quote Originally Posted by Raivi
    It has a lot to do with the fact that it doesn't give any bumps in subscribers and they are a business after all.

    Honestly the small support CCP gives financially and by allowing the tournament team to use their dev/gm powers and create new ships is fairly impressive when you consider it's basically a business loss that isn't giving them a measurable profit.
    Hi Ravi, I wanted to ask you a couple of things, first off, You say CCP don't see the tournament as a great benefit to them because it doesn't represent monitory value in terms of new subscribers, fair enough. We can all understand the reasoning behind that.

    However, I wanted to know if they see it's value as a good tool to keep the current player base informed. Their is a lot of devs who come onto the show, who get a chance to explain who they are, and what they do, something they wouldn't be able to do otherwise, This is something Unique they have over other mmo's and it's my belief, that this brings alot of eve players a little closer to understanding the Visions they have for the game we all play and pay for.

    Not to mention, it's damn good fun to watch for the masses who enjoy the whole show, (Any idea on Viewer numbers?) Last year the forums were alight with people bitching about the commentary team, specially that woman without a clue. This year however, I and many others believe they got the perfect team involved and credit where credit is due, the forums were alight with praise for them.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is despite what happened in the Final, the whole Tournament was a success, and is my belief that, despite their numbers showing that it doesn't bring new subscriptions it does go along way to help keep the player base it currently has. That can't be a bad thing.
    no offence but i found most of the words between matches pretty annoying and I had to mute a lot of them because they were boring
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  19. #179
    Sneakyfool's Avatar
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    Re: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspecti

    Doesn't bother me, but that doesn't make it any less of a key selling point, what's boring to you, could be very interesting to the next man.

    Take Shadoo for example, a lot of people said they found him annoying, but I found him highly entertaining, Passionate, and his excitement to be contagious, and best of all, he knows his shit, what more can you possibly want from someone?.

    Same goes for the Devs really, if you found what they were saying boring, fine personal preference and all that, but aside from that, you can take away the knowledge that they do give a fuck about the game, and they do understand the player base better than we give them credit for. All positives I believe.
    I asked for some advice in a department store about a gift for someone special.

    The sales assistant said "we have a beautiful selection of gold necklaces and diamond rings just in".

    I replied "no thanks, the fucking spastic will just eat those, got any Spiderman bibs?"

  20. #180

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    Re: Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspecti

    Quote Originally Posted by Sneakyfool
    Same goes for the Devs really, if you found what they were saying boring, fine personal preference and all that, but aside from that, you can take away the knowledge that they do give a fuck about the game, and they do understand the player base better than we give them credit for. All positives I believe.
    And yet... Incarna.

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