Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspective

[Sneakyfool]

Don't you just love it when a plan comes together, Mad props Hydra.

Hat tipped.

[Oguras]

Nice read, truly deserved victory, good job.

A question: I am curious if Garmon dual boxed in few matches?

[OzzieA]

Epic post and after reading all that you guys clearly deserved to win.

Shame the final fight didn't work out as planned

[Rans]

You guys are nuts, get a girlfriend or something.

Congrats on wasting a large part of this year on winning a virtual tournament that means nothing. Good job. Now go back and do it all over again for next year.

Ah, the oldest defense in the universe.

[Durzel]

Great writeup, had to skim some of it (at work, and lazy) but was very well written.

I love the way people are criticising this outcome or talking about banning metagaming, etc when aside from the fact metagaming is what makes Eve stand out, realistically as someone eruditely put it in another thread - if it had been orchestrated to be a closer match it would've still been fixed, the only difference is that your average layperson wouldn't have been able to tell. For example - if you've got ECM ships on the field how can you tell whether someone is actually jammed or just pretending to be? Also the notion that you could ban something that happens behind closed doors and would continue to happen even if it was illegitimised anyway is laughable.

I guess people have a problem with a) the sanctity (lol) of the tournament and b) being deprived of a ~goodfight~. In my opinion the fact the outcome (0utbreak vs HYDRA) had been orchestrated was a better "fight" than seeing some ships blow up. Big props to everyone involved.

[Soryn Kael]

It's the theater of the thing..


I don't think anybody here actually cares that the outcome was predetermined (unlike eve-o) but by making it so blatant it damaged the entire tournament.


think of how much more awesome it would have been if outbreak had gone on to win.. and then you talk about how you were working together and at the last match they stabbed you in the back to abandon the plan..

It would have made the tournament that much better instead of ending on the worst down note of all the tournaments. It makes the game look bad and that's the opposite of what the tournament is meant to do.

[Durzel]

It's only blatent because it was poorly orchestrated (that's even been admitted). If one of them had blown up and it hadn't appeared like either team had stopped firing you (and I) would be none the wiser and would've assumed the winner won on their own piloting merits.

In a perverse way I'm almost glad it ended the way it did because it showcases the meta-gaming that makes the game so compelling, as opposed to it ending in a fashion that left people speculating and throwing around conspiracy theories - as would always happen since meta-gaming is such a huge factor.

I guess what I'm saying is - would you have been more satisfied seeing an ultimately meaningless fight that was closer when the outcome had still been pre-determined? Would you be happier being in the dark about the extent of meta-gaming or being made fully aware of how at that level it dominates the ships blowing up part?

[Lowa [NSN]]

The amount of awesome is unmeasurable and the saying of "well played" doesnt do it justice by a long shot!
Also, Durzel makes good posts.

[Resi]

Nice read, truly deserved victory, good job.

A question: I am curious if Garmon dual boxed in few matches?

Mad skillz if he was.

Cracking read, Duncan.

[Soryn Kael]

I would have been happier with the general eve audience in the dark.


I don't think any regular tournament participants (of which I'm one) are unaware of the level of meta gaming involved. This way though it calls into question whether there's going to be an AT X. I'm going to be really pissed if I don't get fly in another tournament while not in an alliance that's failcascading so badly that we can't even practice a 5 on 5 :P

[Rans]

Who did most of the theorycrafting though? was it garmon?

[Malaes]

Shame the "planned" fight didnt work out at the end. Would have been cool to see a good fight in the final. Though one of my corp mates wants a vindi now as it won 6v2(or w/e it was)

[rojomojo915]

Great read, you guys truly deserved this with all the effort that was put in.

[Resi]

I really want to hear the Razor story, now.

[Lilalaunebör]

Grats on having all that dedication pay off, reaching the final with two teams clearly was deserved.

That said, actions have consequences. Your actions (the prep., metagaming, fixing matches, as well as the hard won victories) brought you into the final and therefore you deserve 1st/2nd. But at the same time, fucking up the final by not having a meaningful fight even though it would have cost you nothing means that effectively noone "won" that match.
So a rather salomonic outcome would be to award 2nd place to both teams, with the appropriate rewards and medals.

You tried trolling too hard now deal with the fallout.


PS i wub Krug big time

[SupaflyTNT]

Good read. Well done and hats off to all involved

[lubica]

good read, insane dedication srsly

[Karl Shade]

It's the theater of the thing..


I don't think anybody here actually cares that the outcome was predetermined (unlike eve-o) but by making it so blatant it damaged the entire tournament.


think of how much more awesome it would have been if outbreak had gone on to win.. and then you talk about how you were working together and at the last match they stabbed you in the back to abandon the plan..

It would have made the tournament that much better instead of ending on the worst down note of all the tournaments. It makes the game look bad and that's the opposite of what the tournament is meant to do.

Bollocks, this tournament has more memorable drama in it than any since bob's boast and fall. Having a goodfight and later recountings of the meta would have been the same as last year with a different label on the winner, that's interesting only to the already interested.

This is a new story, it's got all the ingredients to be great PR, if CCP would just stop being butthurt and get it into PCG or on RPS or wherever it would be a hell of a lot more effective than if the alliance appeared to go off flawlessly.

[Durzel]

As above. They should spin this to be a positive and perhaps quietly modify the format for the future if they're intent on marketing it to people who don't understand or appreciate the significance of metagaming. Hell they could republish Duncan's inside scoop verbatim and it would be as big a game-drawer as the years in the making GHSC scams, etc.

As a complete aside isn't it a bit disingenuous marketing the game to the general public and sponsors as being something it isn't? Would CCP just want people to join and find themselves getting scammed in Jita mistakenly thinking it was against the rules? It strikes me as a bit of a contradiction trying to run a tournament like this as a "by the books, no underhand tactics" thing whilst maintaining a hands off "anything goes" attitude to the actual game.

tl;dr: CCP are as much to blame for any of this as HYDRA/<any high level team employing metagaming>. As Lana nicely put it, they've sowed the seeds for this sort of thing happening and let it ripen over several ATs. This event is basically an allegory for where metagaming is in the game today.

[Shadoo]

Absolutely amazing work dudes, a well deserved victory for the amount of work you put in. You played it epicly well.

It is unfortunate pubbies didn't, nor will they ever appriciate the victory for what it is -- but then again, that shouldn't take anything away from you.