Changes for Next Year?

[Sakura Nihil]

It really shows what Eve is, and that's not a bad thing. I have the feeling that this tournament final will make the headline of websites like Massively to show how different and deep Eve is.

The problem isn't really the metagaming, most people were entertained by the Co2 shenanigans.

The problem is that your metagaming resulted in a dozen minutes of tedious fail in full view of everyone (CCP management, sponsors, customers, press) in what was a venue for demonstrating eve as deep, vibrant and exciting. You could argue that tedium and fail are integral to the eve experience but I doubt that that's much of a selling point for the uninitiated.

Pretty much.

Imagine the egg on CCP's face after telling the whole cluster to tune in, and hyping it everywhere they could. Four weeks of competition come down to a final match, and then to have that clusterfuck...

[Leboe]

[quote=Sakura Nihil]

It really shows what Eve is, and that's not a bad thing. I have the feeling that this tournament final will make the headline of websites like Massively to show how different and deep Eve is.

The problem isn't really the metagaming, most people were entertained by the Co2 shenanigans.

The problem is that your metagaming resulted in a dozen minutes of tedious fail in full view of everyone (CCP management, sponsors, customers, press) in what was a venue for demonstrating eve as deep, vibrant and exciting. You could argue that tedium and fail are integral to the eve experience but I doubt that that's much of a selling point for the uninitiated.

Pretty much.

Imagine the egg on CCP's face after telling the whole cluster to tune in, and hyping it everywhere they could. Four weeks of competition come down to a final match, and then to have that clusterfuck...[/quote:31h7m801]


problem is its not like the participants did anything wrong, this is simply eve.

CCP didnt get what they wanted with sov warfare, they managed not to get what they wanted with the AT either. Maybe a little prize reduction will happen, but probably nothing more.

[Si'ren]

I suggest the following for ATX:

The winners of the previous year do not get to participate directly, but instead are invited into Jove space to watch the tournament. As one team loses and they all sit in their pods inside the warp-bubble at the end of the match, the reigning Champions decide whether or not their showing was any good and ultimately decide the consequences for losing. Consequences include but are not limited to:

Being pod-killed
Removed skill-points
A brand in the character's bio to show-off their shame
etc


PS:

Ban meta gaming

You know as long as matches ended in a relatively entertaining manner, everyone at ccp would get that this is a joke. Thanks to the serbians and the final, I spent the night tonight on damage control trying to prevent them from actually attempting to ban metagaming. And I'm not sure I'm succeeding.

Meta-gaming is EVE. EVE is Meta-gaming. If they want a clean, "E-sport"-like tournament then the matches should just be in Heroes of Newerth or something (apparently we're better than you there also v0v)!!

But seriously, they couldn't stop it even if they tried. We'll just get better at hiding it. And as a side-note: My suggestion for the final match-setup was Caldari Rush vs. the Adrestia team for effect but we don't have Adrestias

[EchoEpsilon23]

Well, to be honest with you guys this is exactly what CCP needed Egg on the face, a punch in the stomach and some embarassment is always good for the health of the company.

[Lachesis VII]

So is there any proof that CCP is actually pissed off? I haven't seen any official comments yet, and the after-match commentary seemed pretty innocuous to me.

[Sakura Nihil]

Well, to be honest with you guys this is exactly what CCP needed Egg on the face, a punch in the stomach and some embarassment is always good for the health of the company.

I hear they need bittervets in CEVE...

@ Lachesis, Raivi's statement is what we're going off of. As he's actually in Iceland talking to them atm, and specifically...

I think negotiating for ccp concessions is out the window. They're pretty pissed, and with decent reason considering the work they put in.

[Lachesis VII]

Yeah, that makes sense given that he's there, and involved.

[Soryn Kael]

The could always invalidate the prizes from this year's tournament and just say fuck you guys :P

[Raivi]

I can't give specifics since it's probably under part of my NDA, but they are beyond unhappy and trolling pubbies in eve-o is probably going to backfire for everyone involved, including all of us who enjoy the tournament. Hopefully things will be a bit better in the morning.

[Liang]

I can't give specifics since it's probably under part of my NDA, but they are beyond unhappy and trolling pubbies in eve-o is probably going to backfire for everyone involved, including all of us who enjoy the tournament. Hopefully things will be a bit better in the morning.

This isn't really surprising, unfortunately. They put in a lot of work - and money - into a tournament that basically got shit on in the last second. You can say that its "how Eve is played", but I contend that you weren't really playing Eve. You were playing in a tournament, with tournament rules.

Just think, it was all so easy to avoid if you just had an orgy of mutual destruction at the end. Hell, even having Outbreak field an ECM setup would have worked fine, because we as spectators couldn't have told if you missed the jam or just weren't doing any jamming.

[EchoEpsilon23]

Well, to be honest with you guys this is exactly what CCP needed Egg on the face, a punch in the stomach and some embarassment is always good for the health of the company.

I hear they need bittervets in CEVE...

That was flame bait, and troll, so it seems like that was success.

[Al Simmons]

Also I don't buy the notion that "this is what Eve is about, this is how you play Eve". No, it's how you choose to play it, don't presume you speak for everyone else.

[Lana Torrin]

[quote=Sakura Nihil]

It really shows what Eve is, and that's not a bad thing. I have the feeling that this tournament final will make the headline of websites like Massively to show how different and deep Eve is.

The problem isn't really the metagaming, most people were entertained by the Co2 shenanigans.

The problem is that your metagaming resulted in a dozen minutes of tedious fail in full view of everyone (CCP management, sponsors, customers, press) in what was a venue for demonstrating eve as deep, vibrant and exciting. You could argue that tedium and fail are integral to the eve experience but I doubt that that's much of a selling point for the uninitiated.

Pretty much.

Imagine the egg on CCP's face after telling the whole cluster to tune in, and hyping it everywhere they could. Four weeks of competition come down to a final match, and then to have that clusterfuck...[/quote:2q5zxpja]

AHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahahahahahah.. Thats the best thought I have had all day and I thiank you for it.

CCP should have attempted to put a stop to meta-gaming in the AT a few years ago when it started (or became obvious anyway), but instead they let it fester and ripen until it finally bites them on their ass. Yes they cant stop it, but they should have tried to clamp down on it a bit better (like fixed games in sport) to at least give the impression that its not wanted in this tournament.

[Tropic9]

CCP should HTFU and accept that if they provide a sandbox shit like this is going to happen.

[Soryn Kael]

CCP should HTFU and accept that if they provide a sandbox shit like this is going to happen.

Hydra should learn how to not make it blatantly obvious and fuck things up for everybody.

[Raimo]

I can't give specifics since it's probably under part of my NDA, but they are beyond unhappy and trolling pubbies in eve-o is probably going to backfire for everyone involved, including all of us who enjoy the tournament. Hopefully things will be a bit better in the morning.

Let's hope they see things for what they are and do manage to "HTFU" TBH.

...I'd even dare say the amount and quality of metagaming you yourself pulled off last time was one of the reasons driving the extent of scheming this year

But yeah, tell CCP our regards anyway, ppl just really were too exhausted to be on the ball so that the final would go "as planned", nevermind that the final matchup was decided only 45 minutes in to the match and pretty much nothing was prefitted. It was just 100% focusing on getting there.

(After doing the finals day 2 times now I would even dare say that most people who haven't played in the tourney at that level cannot appreciate how much pressure that last day *really* is for the whole team, tho you obviously know this)

[Tropic9]

CCP should HTFU and accept that if they provide a sandbox shit like this is going to happen.

Hydra should learn how to not make it blatantly obvious and fuck things up for everybody.

Maybe Severance should get two teams to the final next year and show us how it's done?

[Soryn Kael]

You actually think they're gonna have a tournament next year now?

The alliance tournament is a loss leader for the purpose of good publicity and you guys shit all over that.


You guys griefed CCP with your retarded little stunt at the end and it'll be interesting to see how that turns out.

And don't bitch that much about how hard it is to get stuff ready to go on the last day. It's stressful, but it's not THAT bad. You have shit ready to go ahead of time and a selection of setups to choose from based on what you have available and who your opponent is. It wasn't that bad for me when I had those matches all in a row and you guys had more pilots and a hell of a lot more isk to work with.


You fucked up and it was bad enough that we might not ever have another tournament.. which is bad for everyone.


All you had to do was make the last fight convincing. Now everyone is going to wonder just how much else was rigged and you've destroyed the credibility of the tournament system. People are going to ask whether the draw was rigged, whether you guys were scanned properly and all that jazz. Good Job.

[Tropic9]

No one in Hydra is denying that our execution of what we had planned for the final match was poor.

But all this nonsense about us griefing CCP is just dumb. If we wanted to do that we would have repeated the rainbow laser raven bullshit conga that CO2 and Wild Boars did in their match. Or done something even worse.

In stead our intention was clearly to put on a show. We brought setup with shiny hulls, we warped everything in at the right ranges for a slug fest and even when we messed up we decided to keep things going and end the match with combat.

Did it work out the way it was planned? No it did not. But it's hardly the end of the world.

[Soryn Kael]

I think you miss the point of the alliance tournament..


It's a loss leader promotion of Eve for CCP so people can enjoy it and get excited about the new update that is either coming out or just came out. It's a bunch of dev talk about the expansion sandwiched around explosions that they can market to folks. What you guys did damaged the good will and frankly defeated the purpose of the tournament. That's why CCP is pissed. If the tournament doesn't generate good press for CCP and good buzz for the players then they won't have another one.