hate these ads?, log in or register to hide them
Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456
Results 101 to 115 of 115

Thread: Alliance Tournament XIV - Day 1

  1. #101

    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    Pandemic Legion
    Posts
    427
    You don't have to be good in the AT, it only matters that the other guy is worse.

  2. #102
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 27, 2012
    Location
    The United
    Posts
    8,970
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Quaan View Post
    You don't have to be good in the AT, it only matters that the other guy is worse.
    Yeah, obviously you are a top tier team. But i think that your internal tests concerning those very piloting heavy comps is not that accurate. Im imagining that that pilot is average or better in your team, seeing as he flew in that match, if the general team flies the arty sleip comp with that skill level youll have warped results, which i think is what happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  3. #103

    Join Date
    November 18, 2013
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Quaan View Post
    You don't have to be good in the AT, it only matters that the other guy is worse.
    Yeah, obviously you are a top tier team. But i think that your internal tests concerning those very piloting heavy comps is not that accurate. Im imagining that that pilot is average or better in your team, seeing as he flew in that match, if the general team flies the arty sleip comp with that skill level youll have warped results, which i think is what happened.
    gets out the popcorn to listen to someone tell me about my tests for the last 2 years

  4. #104
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 27, 2012
    Location
    The United
    Posts
    8,970
    Quote Originally Posted by Casper24 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Quaan View Post
    You don't have to be good in the AT, it only matters that the other guy is worse.
    Yeah, obviously you are a top tier team. But i think that your internal tests concerning those very piloting heavy comps is not that accurate. Im imagining that that pilot is average or better in your team, seeing as he flew in that match, if the general team flies the arty sleip comp with that skill level youll have warped results, which i think is what happened.
    gets out the popcorn to listen to someone tell me about my tests for the last 2 years
    Werent you shocked watching that video, by the piloting i mean? You must admit that a arty sleipnir flown that way will perform extremely bad in terms of dps, but you should also know that if flown properly that is a deadly ship. Can you really say that a test with sleipnir pilots like that flying arty sleips gives conclusive results in terms of the strenght of the comp?
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  5. #105

    Join Date
    September 7, 2014
    Location
    Tuskers
    Posts
    36
    Both the AT13 Warlords' and PL teams used artillery Sleipnirs pretty extensively Wolf. Probably their guys have had 2x more practice with them than we have. I think they know how to test this.

  6. #106
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 27, 2012
    Location
    The United
    Posts
    8,970
    Quote Originally Posted by Iddo_Cohaagen View Post
    Both the AT13 Warlords' and PL teams used artillery Sleipnirs pretty extensively Wolf. Probably their guys have had 2x more practice with them than we have. I think they know how to test this.
    Have you seen that video? Also, im to lazy to check but usually if pl uses arties or long range turrets in general they tend to max out on application support, so that no piloting is required at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  7. #107
    Eshnala's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    1,129
    Quote Originally Posted by Iddo_Cohaagen View Post
    Both the AT13 Warlords' and PL teams used artillery Sleipnirs pretty extensively Wolf. Probably their guys have had 2x more practice with them than we have. I think they know how to test this.
    That guy in the vid would have done horrible in an arty sleip, just as wolf says. (Agreeing with him makes me feel dirty tho.)

  8. #108
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 27, 2012
    Location
    The United
    Posts
    8,970
    So unless a pl guy here can tell me that that guy in the video flew extremely bad in relations to the usual pl team and that pl has a much higher piloting level overall, im going to assume that that pilot is representative of PLs ploting level, and under that assumption any PL internal arty sleip + orthrus test is very much not how it would play out against a team capable of flying the setup properly.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  9. #109
    Mixu's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 14, 2011
    Posts
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    So unless a pl guy here can tell me that that guy in the video flew extremely bad in relations to the usual pl team and that pl has a much higher piloting level overall, im going to assume that that pilot is representative of PLs ploting level, and under that assumption any PL internal arty sleip + orthrus test is very much not how it would play out against a team capable of flying the setup properly.
    Zingers like that are the kinda thing I only think to say when the moment has passed.

  10. #110

    Join Date
    July 2, 2014
    Location
    CAS
    Posts
    376
    I'm a shit pilot.
    But I want to be better.
    What's the PL guy doing so badly?
    He has 425mm ACs, so something like 3000m optimal and 19,350m falloff?
    I didn't notice him out-orbiting his own guns...
    Was it how he handled his tank?
    Or continuing to approach while being primaried, instead of trying to go for transversal?
    Or not re-acquiring lock after the jams failed?

  11. #111
    Suleiman Shouaa's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Location
    [TSKRS]
    Posts
    864
    Wolf's main point is that he's not using hotkeys at all so has to do everything sequentially e.g. has to start moving, then starts locking, then lands tackle, then starts firing. That matters when you're forced to do two things at once - such as try and grab an kiting enemy ship (which is offensive task) whilst running your local tank (which is a defensive task).

    He's also only using approach to try and catch kiters, which is inefficient compared to cutting them off.

  12. #112
    Longdrinks's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 10, 2011
    Location
    CONFEDERATION OF XXPIZZAXX
    Posts
    1,402
    I imagine your transversal matching game must be on point if you want to do any damage at all in arty sleipnir.

    https://zkillboard.com/character/195872744/ have a look to see all the fun im having in eve. If you arent having fun in eve you`re probably bad at eve. Please better yourself.

  13. #113
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 27, 2012
    Location
    The United
    Posts
    8,970
    Quote Originally Posted by Eli Stan View Post
    I'm a shit pilot.
    But I want to be better.
    What's the PL guy doing so badly?
    He has 425mm ACs, so something like 3000m optimal and 19,350m falloff?
    I didn't notice him out-orbiting his own guns...
    Was it how he handled his tank?
    Or continuing to approach while being primaried, instead of trying to go for transversal?
    Or not re-acquiring lock after the jams failed?
    Firstly, as sulei said, there are keybinds - lets say you want to double click in space to pilot, lock a target up, heat your invul and heat and pulse your asb - all at once. With clicking youll waste a lot of time here, and its easy to make mistakes. Thus keybinds are very needed, the default ones suck usually but just binding qwert asd yx alone (you can do much more if you want) will give you a lot of control over your mods. And while he had them setup, he didnt use them. Notice how one he starts taking damage he does nothing at all bar tank? Thats due to no keybinds.

    Then we have his overview, he doesnt have transversal (or angular). Which alone makes him unviable to ever fly a arty sleipnir.

    Now, as you probably know guns track better vs big targets and worse vs slow targets, and the higher the transversal (or angular, which is transversal with range calculated in) the lower your chance to hit. Now, a scimi is a small cruiser, and it has a sig link (i think, not 100% sure) making it even smaller.

    Now, you might say a sleipnir hitting keep at range 7.5km will track perfectly, but shows a sleipnir is doing less then half its dps vs a slowboating scimi at full transversal. (the scimi in the match was webbed, but well talk about that later on)

    Now, in this graph nothing changed at all bar the fact that the sleipnir is manually (i.e by clicking in space) piloting so he flies into the same direction as the scimi, this lower transversal and gives you:



    Notice how just due to not using orbit/keep at range/ctrl space but piloting manually the sleipnir is almost doubling its dps? The scimi in the match was slowed a lot, but the difference between him doing that and not doing that is still almost 100 dps.


    This same principle applies also to artys, which track much worse. So for a arty sleipnir to hit a target like a svipul or a jackdaw or a jag, or even a scimi at range, for almost full dps he will have to fly in such a way that he massively lower transversal, this is called transversal matching. It consists of flying in the direction the target is flying and matching your speed (by clicking on the speed bar to limit it usually) to its speed, doing that a arty sleipnir can get full hits against targets much much smaller then it. On the other side, the same sleipnir would never ever hit that small target if he didnt do that.


    The there is stuff like how he clicked approach instead of double clicking in space when chasing a target (approach always makes you approach the target, while double clicking will put you where it is going to be, which is much better), the heat management (look at how at the most critical part of the game he stops heating into the scimi at 25% or so heat damage), he also had the wrong ammo loaded, but that may not be his fault or could be a meta choice, and so on and forth.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  14. #114

    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    Pandemic Legion
    Posts
    427
    I'm just going to point out that for some reason you are inferring how we fly arty Sleips in reference to a video showcasing an AC ship, but thank you for the insight in our testing process.
    Last edited by Lucas Quaan; October 22 2016 at 09:13:55 PM.

  15. #115
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 27, 2012
    Location
    The United
    Posts
    8,970
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Quaan View Post
    I'm just going to point out that for some reason you are inferring how we fly arty Sleips in reference to a video showcasing an AC ship, but thank you for the insight in our testing process.
    What does a testing process have to do with that? All i am saying is that a pilot flying a arty pilot lke that would not do well. And since you allowed that pilot to fly in the finals its probable that the general majority of pl also flies on a simlar level. Maybe he suddenly turns into a master pilot if flying a arty version, but i doubt it.

    so to quote myself

    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    So unless a pl guy here can tell me that that guy in the video flew extremely bad in relations to the usual pl team and that pl has a much higher piloting level overall, im going to assume that that pilot is representative of PLs ploting level, and under that assumption any PL internal arty sleip + orthrus test is very much not how it would play out against a team capable of flying the setup properly.
    So, is the majority of pl flyng much much better then that guy and you can test those setups properly or not?


    Edit: Im more then happy to accept that btw, if you tell me that most of PL flies a lot better then that ill believe you. The same if you tell me that you have pilots that fly arty sleips very well and thus you could test these setups very well too. But i havnt heard anyone say that yet.
    Last edited by W0lf Crendraven; October 22 2016 at 10:24:00 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •