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Thread: PM of Turkey has declared coup live on TV

  1. #901
    Hoggbert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LeonM View Post
    I don't think an engineering degree is useless (If you want to work as an engineer), sure it could be made more interesting and useful, but what couldn't.
    If there's one thing i noticed with a lot of engineers is how they'll always say that in hindsight, forgetting how the studies shaped their life around them for a while.

    They probably wouldn't have ended in the same spot without them. Sure, some might have done better, but a lot wouldn't have without the structure offered imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Doesn't change the fact that some people dismiss everything not natural sciences and engineering related as a waste of time and money and that such a train of thought is idiotic and, I dare say it, dangerous.

    Tapapapatalk
    Oh that part i agree with you 100%.

    One thing that always comes to mind is how engineers and scientists are amazing and I love them and what they do to bits, but dear god they're often awful at actually communicating and applying the things well later on down the line.
    You are awful at communicating and applying things!

  2. #902
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Im serious. At least around here it is pretty accepted that your bachelor as such isnt really worth anything or good for much bar that it means you can do your masters. Which is where you actually get the skills and stuff you need to get a good job.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  3. #903
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Speaking as someone with a large role in hiring people onto our team. A CS or EE degree gets you into the interview. It helps us sort the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. That's not to say we wouldn't take someone without a degree, but there would really need to be something exceptional on your resume to get a look.

    I'm talking about college age people here. Obviously years of professional experience is a very different thing.

    That said, we then normally have to spend half a year undoing the bizarre indoctrination and impractical training the average CS degree from a good school like Berkeley or MIT puts into the young programmer, because no, brah, we don't need you to implement low level sort algorithms or a crappy 3D engine just because you think you know how.

  4. #904
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Im serious.
    That's the sad part.

  5. #905
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    That said, we then normally have to spend half a year undoing the bizarre indoctrination and impractical training the average CS degree from a good school like Berkeley or MIT puts into the young programmer, because no, brah, we don't need you to implement low level sort algorithms or a crappy 3D engine just because you think you know how.
    That's pretty obvious, who ever thinks that people who have studied do not to be broken in to the real word and learn shit is delusional.

  6. #906
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonM View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Im serious.
    That's the sad part.
    it is true though, a bachelors degree is a door opener for some jobs that have nothing to do with what you actually studied. A masters degree and a doctoral degree actually mean something for the field you want to work in.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  7. #907
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonM View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Im serious.
    That's the sad part.
    This depends on the system, really.

    In Finland, bachelor's degrees did not really become a thing prior to the Bologna process - many disciplines, including university level engineering, did not even have an option to graduating as a bachelor. Even now literally nobody graduates with only a bachelor from the universities and the ones that do are basically seen as dropouts. If one is interested in obtaining a lower degree, then one goes to a polytechnic, which is has a more work-oriented emphasis. Were I to meet a Finn who quit at bachelor level, my first impression would be to wonder what's wrong with them.

    Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point. - Blaise Pascal, Pensées, 277

  8. #908
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LeonM View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Im serious.
    That's the sad part.
    This depends on the system, really.

    In Finland, bachelor's degrees did not really become a thing prior to the Bologna process - many disciplines, including university level engineering, did not even have an option to graduating as a bachelor. Even now literally nobody graduates with only a bachelor from the universities and the ones that do are basically seen as dropouts. If one is interested in obtaining a lower degree, then one goes to a polytechnic, which is has a more work-oriented emphasis. Were I to meet a Finn who quit at bachelor level, my first impression would be to wonder what's wrong with them.
    Same, talking about degrees affected by the Bologna Process.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  9. #909
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Of my friends who are graduates, most have engineering degrees of some form or another.

    Only one of them says his degree wasn't a bit of a waste of time and they'd have been better off entering the professional world as apprentices or just going into the job and training more specifically via diplomas/whatever. The one who doesn't see his as a waste of time has stayed in academia.

    I spent 2 years studying engineering, and my experience led me to leaving university to finish my studies part time (which was going well until the company funding me went bust).

    Engineering degrees are seen as the gold standard of 'useful' degrees, but a lot of graduates (anecdotally) don't really see much added value. If that's the case then shouldn't the 'purpose' of degrees be reevaluated?
    Well maybe one shouldn't study for a specific job or career but what interests you and what you want to explore indepth?

    Tapapapatalk
    If only that was the advice offered to 17 year olds the world over.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  10. #910
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Well, it is kinda hard to study for a specific job bar teaching and being a doctor. Even law offers multiple careers. You usually have a lot of options later on.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  11. #911

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    The worst five for that are

    Animal science
    Creative writing
    Sociology
    Hospitality, leisure, recreation and tourism
    Social policy
    I can agree that creative writing isn't a course of study of its own. It could be rolled into a literature course though. I've never seen that offered on its own in Germany.
    Animal science? Is that a dumbed down name for biology? Because that is an important field of study.
    Social Policy is a subfield of political science. Usually political scientists don't become politicians but quite a few work in parliaments and political organizations or ministries. Civil servant training for the highest levels in Germany includes a BA or Master's in political science.

    Sociology? Seriously?

    A friend of mine studied tourism. Turned out to be heavy on business followed by languages and culture, basically a heavily flavored MBA. She now 'designs' tourist packages for Central and South America at a company in Germany after working in Mexico for a while.
    Not a completely useless degree I'd say, it's an MBA (or BA equivalent) at the end of the day.

    Tapapapatalk
    I'm not rating them personally.

    You sliced the context out of my post when quoting.

  12. #912
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    Because being a doctor is this one linear singular well defined job thing. Ppppppleeeeease.

  13. #913
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    To put Wolf's post in perspective, it's like it was in Finland. Bachelor degrees didn't exist until recently and everyone got a Master's degree by default. Having just a BA in Germany is still seen as incomplete by some sectors.

    Nicholai well why did you use that list then? You seemed to agree with the notion that they are pointless, at least it sounded like that to me.

    Tapapapatalk
    nevar forget

  14. #914
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonM View Post
    Because being a doctor is this one linear singular well defined job thing. Ppppppleeeeease.
    That and the teaching degrees, i cant think of anything else where its clear what job youll have when you finish. (speaking of uni degrees)
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  15. #915
    LeonM's Avatar
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    Well obviously you can't, that hardly means that things are as limited as you can think them.

  16. #916

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoggbert View Post
    You are awful at communicating and applying things!
    And proud about it!

  17. #917
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonM View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Im serious.
    That's the sad part.
    Needed a new sig anyway...

    On a serious note, I wouldn't pay much attention to anyone with a degree in any serious subject who says their degree was a waste of time. You might not apply the specific knowledge or even work withing a field where it has any direct value, but part of what makes something like an engineering degree attractive is that it shows the ability to reach a high level of understanding/expertise within an advanced field. It's a quality control stamp, if you will. It shows the applicant is willing and capable of a high level of a high level of proficiency. It also does count as a substitute for experience in a lot of ways, as despite bachelors being a bit of a meme these days, university life has more in common with work life than any of your preceding education, and requires at least a bit of personal accountability and disciplin.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeonM View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Im serious.
    That's the sad part.

  18. #918
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tordin Varglund View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LeonM View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Im serious.
    That's the sad part.
    Needed a new sig anyway...

    On a serious note, I wouldn't pay much attention to anyone with a degree in any serious subject who says their degree was a waste of time. You might not apply the specific knowledge or even work withing a field where it has any direct value, but part of what makes something like an engineering degree attractive is that it shows the ability to reach a high level of understanding/expertise within an advanced field. It's a quality control stamp, if you will. It shows the applicant is willing and capable of a high level of a high level of proficiency. It also does count as a substitute for experience in a lot of ways, as despite bachelors being a bit of a meme these days, university life has more in common with work life than any of your preceding education, and requires at least a bit of personal accountability and disciplin.
    University is absolutely nothing like work life.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  19. #919

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    University is absolutely nothing like work life.
    Reread what he wrote.

    It's the first time you're really accountable for anything and require some kind of discipline in most cases, which can help many get a grip on shit in their life that education before wouldn't have done. Also actually adapting to people not really caring about you that much anymore. It's actually a fairly solid point.

    He's not saying university life is like work life, that's not the point.

    At least that's been my experience and what i've seen with me and a lot of other people. Maybe your particular type of education where you come from is different. *shrug*
    Last edited by Isyel; July 26 2016 at 06:50:27 PM.

  20. #920
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    University is absolutely nothing like work life.
    Reread what he wrote.

    It's the first time you're really accountable for anything and require some kind of discipline in most cases, which can help many get a grip on shit in their life that education before wouldn't have done. Also actually adapting to people not really caring about you that much anymore. It's actually a fairly solid point.

    He's not saying university life is like work life, that's not the point.

    At least that's been my experience and what i've seen with me and a lot of other people. Maybe your particular type of education where you come from is different. *shrug*
    That seems like an extraordinarily expensive 3 years if that's the main lesson to take away from it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

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