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Thread: Tracking

  1. #1

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    Tracking

    So, as a guy who started out my career as a caldari missile pilot and mostly flew frigates all the time, moving up to cruisers and battlecruisers that use turrets has really messed me up. Also, I never realized a merlin with void would miss ab frigs. For some reason I was under the impression that small short range guns had pretty much no tracking problems. I mostly fly in fw space so most of my targets are ab frigs. I was really surprised when I was flying a double web harby using heavy pulses and I was unable to hit a guy in a merlin orbiting me at 500. I understand now that pulses in particular have pretty shit tracking so I tried a hurricane with 220s and I had 1 TE and had a corpmate orbit me in a breacher to try to hit him. I was able to land a couple hits if I used keep at and did the web/unweb thing mentioned in a different thread but for the most part I missed.

    So I guess my question is am I even more shit than I thought or is it actually very difficult to hit frigs with medium guns even with 2 webs.

    Also what can I do to actually hit them, if anything.

  2. #2
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Manually pilot, especially if they're not.
    Move out to the edge of tackle range if you have range-control, and don't use orbit but instead keep-at-range. Else learn to slingshot them if you have a working prop mod.
    Remember a scram turns off their mwd and stops that lovely sig bloom, so consider long point and webs over scram & web. If you can't kill what you catch, is your current tackle set working for you.

    For medium weapons vs frigs, the ideal is to hit them before they get in tackle range of you, so kite hard with overheated mwd before you find you wish you already had, and set up the fight so you're landing at range, or will be by the time the frigs start appearing.
    A cane should have a medium neut to try turn off a smaller ship's prop mod and tackle, to diminish their range & transv control.

    Drones are also significant vs frigs, often it's better to have 2x 5 lights of 2 different damage types, than 5x mediums going for max paper dps against a same-sized ship as yours.

    When trying to hill smaller ships that aren't tackled & at range, use the camera to look at them, try work out their direction/alignment, and pilot to match that and speed, to minimise transv. Learn when to slow/stop your ship to help.
    Here's an example of large blasters vs frigs. As is the Big Miker Nano Navy Mega fight a bit later on. He holds fire many times to wait for webs to take effect, or the right potion of an orbiting frig's orbit when their direction causes low transv.
    Last edited by Daneel Trevize; June 13 2016 at 12:43:12 PM.
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  3. #3

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    Thanks for the advice. In the situation mentioned in my harby my mwd speed was like 1k because plate and I had the guy double webbed and I think I was using keep at range.

    When testing the cane with my breacher friend it seemed that keep at was far superior to any attempt I could make at manual piloting because my agility was so incredibly shitty. I could see if I was an ab fit stabber or something but a 1600 plate mwd BC that is scrammed vs double webbed AB frigs seems to be a rough match up.

    For the manual piloting thing the person I was testing my hurricane with was having me let my webs go and turn them on when he was behind me and then trying to turn to match the direction we are going together, but it didn't seem to work nearly as well as when I used keep at range. When I was using keep at my ship was essentially turning away from him at all times and I was landing decent hits.

    Also did the change the way tracking works recently with regard to the stat called signature resolution? I watched a video about spiraling/tracking and there was a stat called signature resolution that basically makes it even harder to hit small stuff but when I look at my guns I see no such stat.

    By the way all fits discussed were disruptor double web mwd in the mids.

  4. #4

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    Add the rad/sec column to your overview, and practice in lowering that value to match your guns performance....it helps visualize which target you can hit and which you can't

  5. #5
    Mr Marram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alain Colcer View Post
    Add the rad/sec column to your overview, and practice in lowering that value to match your guns performance....it helps visualize which target you can hit and which you can't
    Except CCP in their infinite wisdom decided to remove the weapon tracking stat from the info screen and replaced it with a weapon accuracy score. So, I think pyfa and EFT can still show the tracking numbers but there is no way to see it in game any more.


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  6. #6
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shift 17 View Post
    Also did the change the way tracking works recently with regard to the stat called signature resolution? I watched a video about spiraling/tracking and there was a stat called signature resolution that basically makes it even harder to hit small stuff but when I look at my guns I see no such stat.
    Sig res is still a vital part of the formula afaik, so for the same angular v, medium guns will track ~~3x as badly as smalls, and larges ~~3x as badly as mediums. Titans have/had an extra penalty added for tracking things with sig res:sig size worse than basically capital/BS size, to stop them wrecking BCs and HICs unsupported.
    Last edited by Daneel Trevize; June 13 2016 at 05:54:05 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shift 17 View Post
    signature resolution that basically makes it even harder to hit small stuff but when I look at my guns I see no such stat.
    It is a ship stat for whatever you are targeting. Smaller ships and some t2 ships have considerably smaller signatures, making them harder to track. Running your MWD bloats your signature making you easier to hit. If you force a small ship to run MWD you can hit it easier, for example.
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  8. #8
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Signature != sig resolution. They're related, but not the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  9. #9

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    So I guess my question is how many tracking mods do I need to not get eaten alive by small frig gangs in a cruiser

  10. #10
    CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shift 17 View Post
    So I guess my question is how many tracking mods do I need to not get eaten alive by small frig gangs in a cruiser
    How long is a piece of string?

  11. #11
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    That's not a scenario you solve with tracking modules.
    You fit nanos, and GTFO and/or set up right at range and have them come straight at you & strung out.
    And it's where 100mn AB can be potent, allowing you to continue in a direction even under stacked webs, to work with your tackle modules to finish things off as they catch up to you. But it depends on the enemy drawing themselves out in that line you're pulling them along.
    Last edited by Daneel Trevize; June 14 2016 at 09:16:53 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    That's not a scenario you solve with tracking modules.
    You fit nanos, and GTFO and/or set up right at range and have them come straight at you & strung out.
    And it's where 100mn AB can be potent, allowing you to continue in a direction even under stacked webs, to work with your tackle modules to finish things off as they catch up to you. But it depends on the enemy drawing themselves out in that line you're pulling them along.
    Yeah, Im starting to think that way too. I think something with a 100mn ab and a MMJD should be handy combined will well tracking guns. I really feel like it makes sense that if you sacrifice a couple slots to do it that you should be able to track frigs NP but I guess that's not how ccp made it.

    EDIT: Thanks for all the help guys. You can consider my question answered at this point

  13. #13
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Confirming that coupling 100mn + well tracking guns makes for great frig shredding potential.
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  14. #14
    Death ToU's Avatar
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    Did you have a web?

    On the chance that he was using the orbit 500 button.

    You could of turned off your web increasing his speed meaning his orbit would go out of wack and your tracking would be better. cycle your web with your guns.

    edit: This post right here

    http://failheap-challenge.com/showth...gates-you-noob

  15. #15
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shift 17 View Post
    For the manual piloting thing the person I was testing my hurricane with was having me let my webs go and turn them on when he was behind me and then trying to turn to match the direction we are going together, but it didn't seem to work nearly as well as when I used keep at range. When I was using keep at my ship was essentially turning away from him at all times and I was landing decent hits.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  16. #16

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    I try not to ask questions that were answered in the thread below the one that I created.

    Edit: Sorry, two threads below
    Last edited by Shift 17; June 16 2016 at 01:02:30 PM.

  17. #17
    Mikokoel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Death ToU View Post
    Did you have a web?

    On the chance that he was using the orbit 500 button.

    You could of turned off your web increasing his speed meaning his orbit would go out of wack and your tracking would be better. cycle your web with your guns.

    edit: This post right here

    http://failheap-challenge.com/showth...gates-you-noob
    Doesn't work anymore, they changed that (they had to) when they introduced Grapplers.

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  18. #18

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    It actually does work, if the dudes at 500 and you drop your web/webs they usually will shoot out to like 2km then you put them back on and maybe OH your prop mod if you can and land some clean hits as they try to chase back after you.

  19. #19
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikokoel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Death ToU View Post
    Did you have a web?

    On the chance that he was using the orbit 500 button.

    You could of turned off your web increasing his speed meaning his orbit would go out of wack and your tracking would be better. cycle your web with your guns.

    edit: This post right here

    http://failheap-challenge.com/showth...gates-you-noob
    Doesn't work anymore, they changed that (they had to) when they introduced Grapplers.
    It lost most of it's effectiveness when CCP changed how ships approach orbit range. Still works with a bit of luck and if you have a little speed
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