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Thread: (UK EURO WAFFLE) Limey Civil War

  1. #30961

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meester View Post
    Russian gas is further able to peculate across the chain of EU countries. If members willingly allow Russian gas then they
    make Putin more money to spend on his military. The more EU countries than Russia can supply will equal more cash.
    Well, dare if you do, dare if you don't, I guess. Because for quite some time - and that finally led up to those pipelines you're complaining above, the narrative was "We (western countries) need to get rid off our energy dependency on the Middle East"

  2. #30962
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Meester View Post
    Russian gas is further able to peculate across the chain of EU countries. If members willingly allow Russian gas then they
    make Putin more money to spend on his military. The more EU countries than Russia can supply will equal more cash.
    Well, dare if you do, dare if you don't, I guess. Because for quite some time - and that finally led up to those pipelines you're complaining above, the narrative was "We (western countries) need to get rid off our energy dependency on the Middle East"
    yea, but the point was to move towards more localized independent and renewable sources by getting rid of fossil fuels, not shut down the all the nuclear infrastructure and replace it with fucking natural gas plants from a supplier that have amply demonstrated their willingness to use the natural gas as a political weapon.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  3. #30963
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Meester View Post
    Russian gas is further able to peculate across the chain of EU countries. If members willingly allow Russian gas then they
    make Putin more money to spend on his military. The more EU countries than Russia can supply will equal more cash.
    Well, dare if you do, dare if you don't, I guess. Because for quite some time - and that finally led up to those pipelines you're complaining above, the narrative was "We (western countries) need to get rid off our energy dependency on the Middle East"
    yea, but the point was to move towards more localized independent and renewable sources by getting rid of fossil fuels, not shut down the all the nuclear infrastructure and replace it with fucking natural gas plants from a supplier that have amply demonstrated their willingness to use the natural gas as a political weapon.
    A massively decentralized renewable grid would objectively be much better for national security, which is what everyone always uses to argue for energy policy lately, anyway.
    meh

  4. #30964
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Meester View Post
    Russian gas is further able to peculate across the chain of EU countries. If members willingly allow Russian gas then they
    make Putin more money to spend on his military. The more EU countries than Russia can supply will equal more cash.
    Well, dare if you do, dare if you don't, I guess. Because for quite some time - and that finally led up to those pipelines you're complaining above, the narrative was "We (western countries) need to get rid off our energy dependency on the Middle East"
    yea, but the point was to move towards more localized independent and renewable sources by getting rid of fossil fuels, not shut down the all the nuclear infrastructure and replace it with fucking natural gas plants from a supplier that have amply demonstrated their willingness to use the natural gas as a political weapon.
    A massively decentralized renewable grid would objectively be much better for national security anyway, which is what everyone always uses to argue for energy policy lately, anyway.
    you can't fully decentralize a powergrid for practical reasons, you can chop it up in smaller bits but the advantage of the "big grids" is supply and demand stability.

    the point is more that instead of taking the easy way out and sucking on Russian gas pipes, the proper answer would have been massive investments into wind and solar power generation as well as large scale power storage such as pumped hydro storage, we're going to have to do it anyway to have a long-term sustainable society.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  5. #30965

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    One imagines Trump is being fashionably late while we can all see where he's waiting. Maybe his hair isn't behaving. It won't happen; but it would be a laugh if May et al got bored & went inside.

    edit: nvm looks like he's on his way.

  6. #30966
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post

    Corbyn's position on the EU is also garbage, you haven't answered my question though.

    The fact that the line breaks continue in a quote lends even less credibility to your "self written" posts with the same issue.
    If YOU think I am then why not try and find out where I got it from? Should be easy right?

    Some of Corbyns ideas are correct.

    And quoting The Times here, according to Transparency International, MEP's earn 102,000 euros a year compared to MP's £67,000 with a tax rate of 22%.
    They have allowances of 400,000 euros a year. Nigel Farage is the sixth highest earner of MEP's from outside sources alongside his 100,000 euro salary.
    Guy Verhofstadt earned 920,000 - 1.45 million euros as a board member of Sofina. An italian socialist, Renato Soru is the highest earner of 1.6 million euros a year.
    104 MEP's declared extra earnings more than 100,000 euros each for the past four years.

    The idea that rich bankers control the EU is not entirely without merit.

    Also the Lib Dems will never control a UK Government because

    A] They are some of the most hypocritical dipshits to ever exist in the UK
    B] Fuck the Lib Dems


    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    The EU only now gets their own defense force because the US is inherently unreliable right now as an ally and because of the Brexit. Until Brexit the British veto always prevented an EU force.

    So you saying you leave because you don't want an EU defense force shows how little you understand how the EU works. You could prevent it by staying.

    Russian gas is only an issue in Germany and further east really. We get 10% of our energy needs from Russian gas. We want the new pipeline which is blocked by most other countries. If you'd stay in, you could provide an alternative source of gas and even make money off it.

    Calling EU membership annexation is pure bullshit and pure opinion with no basis in reality. Russians annexation is in no way shape or Form comparable to EU membership. And as dar as I know, all countries joined willingly. Iirc even you guys held a referendum about it.
    The USA has protected Europe since the founding of NATO and their weapons work which is more than I can say for Germany. If the EU wants an EU Force then it should go
    that way without the UK. The Junckers and Mogherini's will always want it, so best to let them get on with their nonsense. They will always try and find a way to force the issue so best
    let them pay for both an EU Force AND NATO or just one, you can't cherry-pick the defence initiatives you want and the UK shouldn't be willing to pick up the bill for that.
    There is no guarantee that a UK veto will be effective at stopping it in the future anyway.

    British gas in the North Sea will not last forever and it currently serves our own interests first. EU countries should look to North Africa for their gas imo or Israeli gasfields.

    EU membership was never chosen by the citizens but by Governments and in the UK even joining the ECC was not debated at first, indeed Heath just carried it through.
    The EU as it is called and operated as now was never the choice of citizens until the UK Referendum in 2016. I would call joning the EU without chocie or debate, to be
    political annexation.
    Last edited by Meester; July 12 2018 at 07:59:09 PM.

  7. #30967
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    You just prove you don't know how the EU works. Britain like every member of the EU has a full veto power on any issue.

    There's no "if our veto will be enough." It is because everyone's veto is enough.

    Tapapapatalk
    nevar forget

  8. #30968
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Britain like every member of the EU has a full veto power on any issue.
    Except if its a QMV issue mate
    "I think we could all do with sitting back a bit and detaching ourselves from the situation to really think about how these issues reflect on our future and how we discuss them here and be a bit less aggressive or defensive because everyone has a complicated set of circumstances that has led the to place importance on particular issues and it doesn't meany any of them is less valid, we just need to look at the broader picture"

    Smuggo - Brexit Thread

  9. #30969
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    You just prove you don't know how the EU works. Tapapapatalk
    Pretty much the entire story of Brexit
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  10. #30970
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    'We'll form better trade deals with the rest of the world' they said...

  11. #30971

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    'We'll form better trade deals with the rest of the world' they said...
    And then The Orange said "No, you won't do so with us"

  12. #30972
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    You've got to hand it to him though, only he could really show us just how small, and subject to the whims of fair weather nations and madmen.

  13. #30973
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    I'm amazed at how easily brexiters have been allowed to move the goalposts. At first a 'no-deal' brexit was off the cards, soft brexit in the form of EEA would be acceptable. Now it seems like the only option they will accept is total economic annihilation and anything else they screech about 'brexit in name only'. The truly depressing thing about this is it won't kill right wing politics, if anything it will provide a base to strengthen the outside of the cities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  14. #30974
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    https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...everage-219001
    Trump Backed Brexit. Then He Used It As Leverage.
    Under this president, the ‘special relationship’ isn’t so special anymore.

    When President Trump visits the United Kingdom on Friday, he will find the special relationship in its worst shape since the Suez Crisis of 1956.

    It did not look this way immediately following his election. Trump loudly supported Britain’s controversial withdrawal from the European Union. He repudiated President Barack Obama’s comment that the UK would be “at the back of the queue” and promised quick progress on a bilateral Free Trade Agreement (FTA). He took Prime Minister Theresa May’s hand in the Rose Garden less than a week after his inauguration. But since then, the relationship has steadily deteriorated.

    Contrary to the rhetoric, the Trump administration has pursued a predatory policy toward Britain designed to capitalize on the UK’s need for new trading arrangements after Brexit. The United States has sought to exact painful concessions that it was unable to secure when Britain negotiated as a member of the EU.

    The Trump administration helped block an agreement between London and Brussels on its agricultural quotas in the World Trade Organization. It has offered Britain a worse deal on the Open Skies Agreement than it currently has as an EU member. Senior Trump administration officials have made it clear that it will insist the UK adopt many U.S. regulations as a condition for an FTA, even though this would necessarily limit Britain’s ability to negotiate a trade deal with the remaining 27 members of the EU. Some demands, like access to the National Health Service for U.S. firms, would be especially controversial in the UK.

    Essentially, the Trump administration views Britain as an easy economic mark, not a strategic partner. The State Department has been marginalized to the point of irrelevance while “America First” trade negotiators take charge.

    And it’s not just Brexit. Trump has ignored London’s counsel on strategic issues, such as the Iran nuclear deal, which the British desperately have tried to save. He has also repeatedly interfered in British politics. He retweeted a member of the far right Britain First party. He criticized the May government and the Mayor of London Sadiq Khan for being soft on terrorism. He has repeatedly praised and spoken with Nigel Farage, a fringe critic of the May government. He attempted to impose tariffs on Bombardier, an aerospace conglomerate that employs thousands of people in Northern Ireland, only to have it struck down by the U.S. courts. He even let it be known that he disapproved of his own administration’s tough response to the Russian attempt to assassinate Sergei Skripal in London with a chemical agent. In recent days, he has said the UK is in “turmoil” and that his upcoming meeting with Russia’s Vladimir Putin may be “easier” than meeting with the prime minister.

    The United States is now playing fast and loose with the special relationship and it is having a real impact. A post-Brexit Britain needs close relations with other major countries, and if the United States is difficult to deal with, it will find itself increasingly tempted into a closer economic partnership with China, one that will surely have political consequences. Trump’s antagonistic approach also plays into the hands the leftist leader of the opposition, Jeremy Corbyn, a persistent critic of a close U.S.-UK alliance who would likely leap at the chance to weaken the special relationship.

    The Trump administration must actively seek to preserve the special relationship with Britain, not take advantage of it. The first step is to recognize that Brexit is about the future of Europe, not purely an economic matter. The United States has a strategic interest in the outcome — it can live with almost any negotiated agreement but not with no deal and not with a poisoned UK-EU relationship.

    In a functioning special relationship, the United States would do everything possible to facilitate a smooth Brexit, including being relatively accommodating in rolling over agreements that the UK is already a party to as a member of the EU and seeking to ensure an FTA is compatible with a close trading relationship between the UK and the EU 27. It would also use its influence to help broker an agreement to dealing with the Northern Ireland border question and to encourage London and Brussels to avoid a no-deal outcome.

    The administration would also end its campaign to undermine the EU. As the prime minister told the president in their first meeting, Britain needs a successful EU after it leaves. And, of course, the president’s hostile tweets would end.

    Britain has its own work to do. For more than a decade, the UK has steadily reduced its international influence. Defense cuts, pandering to Russian oligarchs, and the vote against the Syrian red line strikes in 2013 displayed a disinterest and incapacity in being a global player. Brexit handed leverage to other nations, including the EU-27 and the United States, which they are now using to advance their own interests. Britain certainly needs a strategic rethink if it wants to preserve its traditional role as a major power.

    Now though, Britain finds itself in a difficult situation in which it could use a real friend on the other side of the Atlantic. One recognized its role in facilitating a smooth Brexit that preserved trans-Atlantic unity and the European order. Instead, the special relationship is hanging by a thread — and Trump is largely to blame.
    Pretty damning from across the pond.

  15. #30975
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    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    'We'll form better trade deals with the rest of the world' they said...
    And then The Orange said "No, you won't do so with us"
    It's similar to what Obama said about the UK being at the 'back of the line', but in a different context.

    "You know, the UK, it's very sad, they used to, I mean they once had such a huge empire, the biggest of all time, and you know now its just, well what can I say, now Its not so big, and you know they used to be a lot bigger, but they're small now, but they still think they're big, so sad...

    And some people over there say I have tiny hands, look at these hands, not so tiny, but that island, we'll call it the tiny kingdom!"
    Last edited by Approaching Walrus; July 13 2018 at 10:18:43 AM.

  16. #30976
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    'We'll form better trade deals with the rest of the world' they said...
    And then The Orange said "No, you won't do so with us"
    It's similar to what Obama said about the UK being at the 'back of the line', but in a different context.

    "You know, the UK, it's very sad, they used to, I mean they once had such a huge empire, the biggest of all time, and you know now its just, well what can I say, now Its not so big, and you know they used to be a lot bigger, but they're small now, but they still think they're big, so sad...

    And some people over there say I have tiny hands, look at these hands, not so tiny, but that island, we'll call it the tiny kingdom!"
    To be honest, I can't be sure if this quote is made up or actual transcript from a speech Trump gave. What a world.

    Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point. - Blaise Pascal, Pensées, 277

  17. #30977
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    'We'll form better trade deals with the rest of the world' they said...
    And then The Orange said "No, you won't do so with us"
    It's similar to what Obama said about the UK being at the 'back of the line', but in a different context.

    "You know, the UK, it's very sad, they used to, I mean they once had such a huge empire, the biggest of all time, and you know now its just, well what can I say, now Its not so big, and you know they used to be a lot bigger, but they're small now, but they still think they're big, so sad...

    And some people over there say I have tiny hands, look at these hands, not so tiny, but that island, we'll call it the tiny kingdom!"
    To be honest, I can't be sure if this quote is made up or actual transcript from a speech Trump gave. What a world.
    We live in a satirical parody now.

  18. #30978
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    I just hope this all gets so bad it makes the idea intolerable.

  19. #30979
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    I just hope this all gets so bad it makes the idea intolerable.
    We'll probably end up with a no deal brexit. I can't see much steering us away from this course except a general election which won't be called.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  20. #30980
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    And on we continue, the unstoppable force of democracy, vs mountain of impossible.


    It's funny how few of these democrats speak up, when it's about the people vs sovereign debt, or predatory capitalism but eh ho, you can't barrage the farrage.

    Meanwhile, someone still wants an enquiry into why water is wet.


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