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Thread: (UK EURO WAFFLE) Limey Civil War

  1. #25821
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Francogermanic would be more precise. Could have been Anglofrancogermanic but your inbred 'elites' decided to have a fit.
    Not really. France's unfortunate history of having such a powerful neigh our that can out produce it in every way and has twice invaded it in the past century means I can understand their position, but remember that when a new French president is elected the first thing they do is fly to Berlin to kiss the Chancellor's hand. France is unfortunately now a vassal of Germany. But I don't want that for us.
    You somehow seem to forget that history does stretch further than just the past century or two.

    Also you are wrong on pretty much every little thing except the out-produce bit. But that could also be explained by having 15 million more people than France.
    So you didn't invade them twice? Wow my history teachers got it really wrong...
    Your history teachers apparently forgot to mention the number of times France started shit with Germany.
    France totally didn't attempt the whole empire thing, ever, nope. :>

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
    General Winter took care of that attempt too.

  2. #25822
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    No alliance in history has ever been cool with members leaving. It's just the first time in history (iirc) that it happens to a not primarily military alliance but a economical-political one.

    Tapapapatalk
    Especially when its a privileged member leaving and bitching because it doesnt have enough privilege.
    Nothing about privelege. People weren't voting for more privelege in the EU they were voting to not be in it. Also what's wrong with having secured opt out exactly? Or are you just jealous Slovenia doesn't have any?
    Youre becoming as bad as xeno m8.
    What's your answer? You constantly complain about it but it seems utterly irrelevant to the discussion at hand and if you're not happy with Slovenia's lot in the EU then why not complain to change it instead of complaining the UK decided to leave the undemocratic German empire?
    I love how when your arguments make no sense and have no impact you just double down and start changing the language to a derisive "German empire" to make it more emotional.

    Have you been on a strict right wing tabloid diet lately? Because your shit is not "rational thinking on your own" but devolved into "I blindly regurgitate everything served to me by the right wing press" by now and it's hilarious.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
    Eh? I don't have an argument because Zeekar hasn't answered the question of why he's so obsessed with opt outs or why opt outs are relevant to this issue at all. So far as I can see they aren't.

    Sure I used emotional language just as you and others do constantly but you also emotionally attack me for not agreeing with you. I've been reading many books actually not tabloid newspapers and I've come to the conclusion the EU is a dangerous thing that would have eventually destroyed the British tradition of democracy and fully consume it within the EU model. I have to come to realise my heritage and culture are important and should be preserved.

  3. #25823
    Jori McKie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    No alliance in history has ever been cool with members leaving. It's just the first time in history (iirc) that it happens to a not primarily military alliance but a economical-political one.

    Tapapapatalk
    Especially when its a privileged member leaving and bitching because it doesnt have enough privilege.
    Nothing about privelege. People weren't voting for more privelege in the EU they were voting to not be in it. Also what's wrong with having secured opt out exactly? Or are you just jealous Slovenia doesn't have any?
    Youre becoming as bad as xeno m8.
    What's your answer? You constantly complain about it but it seems utterly irrelevant to the discussion at hand and if you're not happy with Slovenia's lot in the EU then why not complain to change it instead of complaining the UK decided to leave the undemocratic German empire?
    I love how when your arguments make no sense and have no impact you just double down and start changing the language to a derisive "German empire" to make it more emotional.

    Have you been on a strict right wing tabloid diet lately? Because your shit is not "rational thinking on your own" but devolved into "I blindly regurgitate everything served to me by the right wing press" by now and it's hilarious.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
    The Contemporary Poster is either a troll or delusional. He knows how to compartmentalize historic facts for his agenda or so i hope. Two options he is only consuming Murdoch news and believes them or worst case some kind of right wing nationalist.
    My guess he is going to bet on that debunking his "facts" will strain us out.

  4. #25824
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Francogermanic would be more precise. Could have been Anglofrancogermanic but your inbred 'elites' decided to have a fit.
    Not really. France's unfortunate history of having such a powerful neigh our that can out produce it in every way and has twice invaded it in the past century means I can understand their position, but remember that when a new French president is elected the first thing they do is fly to Berlin to kiss the Chancellor's hand. France is unfortunately now a vassal of Germany. But I don't want that for us.
    You somehow seem to forget that history does stretch further than just the past century or two.

    Also you are wrong on pretty much every little thing except the out-produce bit. But that could also be explained by having 15 million more people than France.
    So you didn't invade them twice? Wow my history teachers got it really wrong...
    Your history teachers apparently forgot to mention the number of times France started shit with Germany.
    France totally didn't attempt the whole empire thing, ever, nope. :>

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
    General Winter took care of that attempt too.
    There were a lot more attempts by France to take all/parts of Germany&Benelux than that, the Thirty Years War is one of the better known ones probably.

    Tapapapatalk
    nevar forget

  5. #25825

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    No alliance in history has ever been cool with members leaving. It's just the first time in history (iirc) that it happens to a not primarily military alliance but a economical-political one.

    Tapapapatalk
    Especially when its a privileged member leaving and bitching because it doesnt have enough privilege.
    Nothing about privelege. People weren't voting for more privelege in the EU they were voting to not be in it. Also what's wrong with having secured opt out exactly? Or are you just jealous Slovenia doesn't have any?
    Youre becoming as bad as xeno m8.
    What's your answer? You constantly complain about it but it seems utterly irrelevant to the discussion at hand and if you're not happy with Slovenia's lot in the EU then why not complain to change it instead of complaining the UK decided to leave the undemocratic German empire?
    I love how when your arguments make no sense and have no impact you just double down and start changing the language to a derisive "German empire" to make it more emotional.

    Have you been on a strict right wing tabloid diet lately? Because your shit is not "rational thinking on your own" but devolved into "I blindly regurgitate everything served to me by the right wing press" by now and it's hilarious.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
    Eh? I don't have an argument because Zeekar hasn't answered the question of why he's so obsessed with opt outs or why opt outs are relevant to this issue at all. So far as I can see they aren't.

    Sure I used emotional language just as you and others do constantly but you also emotionally attack me for not agreeing with you. I've been reading many books actually not tabloid newspapers and I've come to the conclusion the EU is a dangerous thing that would have eventually destroyed the British tradition of democracy and fully consume it within the EU model. I have to come to realise my heritage and culture are important and should be preserved.
    "those privileges we had are not relevant, we want other privileges!"

    And all your books don't mean shit when the premise and conclusion came first.

    Also in that case I'll ask you, what is so precious about your history and tradition that makes it so important? You're fond of saying you need to analyze the thinking and premises. Tell me, what's so inherently important about the English tradition and it shouldn't change.

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  6. #25826
    NoirAvlaa's Avatar
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    I'd like him to tell me why British tradition is as well... Because people say that like it's something to be proud of...

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  7. #25827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    No alliance in history has ever been cool with members leaving. It's just the first time in history (iirc) that it happens to a not primarily military alliance but a economical-political one.

    Tapapapatalk
    Especially when its a privileged member leaving and bitching because it doesnt have enough privilege.
    Nothing about privelege. People weren't voting for more privelege in the EU they were voting to not be in it. Also what's wrong with having secured opt out exactly? Or are you just jealous Slovenia doesn't have any?
    Youre becoming as bad as xeno m8.
    What's your answer? You constantly complain about it but it seems utterly irrelevant to the discussion at hand and if you're not happy with Slovenia's lot in the EU then why not complain to change it instead of complaining the UK decided to leave the undemocratic German empire?
    I love how when your arguments make no sense and have no impact you just double down and start changing the language to a derisive "German empire" to make it more emotional.

    Have you been on a strict right wing tabloid diet lately? Because your shit is not "rational thinking on your own" but devolved into "I blindly regurgitate everything served to me by the right wing press" by now and it's hilarious.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
    Eh? I don't have an argument because Zeekar hasn't answered the question of why he's so obsessed with opt outs or why opt outs are relevant to this issue at all. So far as I can see they aren't.

    Sure I used emotional language just as you and others do constantly but you also emotionally attack me for not agreeing with you. I've been reading many books actually not tabloid newspapers and I've come to the conclusion the EU is a dangerous thing that would have eventually destroyed the British tradition of democracy and fully consume it within the EU model. I have to come to realise my heritage and culture are important and should be preserved.
    "those privileges we had are not relevant, we want other privileges!"

    And all your books don't mean shit when the premise and conclusion came first.

    Also in that case I'll ask you, what is so precious about your history and tradition that makes it so important? You're fond of saying you need to analyze the thinking and premises. Tell me, what's so inherently important about the English tradition and it shouldn't change.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
    What do priveledges have to do with it? And why is negotiating an opt out a bad thing in the first place?

    I will answer your second question but it's long and I'm on phone at the mo so will do it when I get home.

  8. #25828
    Shaikar's Avatar
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    British tradition is a tradition of consistent change.
    Which makes me somewhat baffled, given the above.

    This is not to be confused with the Little Englander tradition, which is very similar to the US Republican tradition of the last decade or two in that an ahistorical vision of the 1950's represents a lost eternal golden age.

  9. #25829
    NoirAvlaa's Avatar
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    British tradition of taking other cultures and putting them into our own? Or going round the world shooting people and stealing their shit? Or maybe xe's just talking about Sunday roasts?

  10. #25830
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoirAvlaa View Post
    British tradition of taking other cultures and putting them into our own? Or going round the world shooting people and stealing their shit? Or maybe xe's just talking about Sunday roasts?
    Quite simply it's about the constant challenge to the power of kings and the concept of rule by consent. It's heavily tied to Christianity and especially the reformation as a way of rejecting the tyranny of rulers which many other parts of the world have suffered in their history. I shall elaborate later but you should take a look for yourself about what Britain means in the world and why it matters.

  11. #25831

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoirAvlaa View Post
    British tradition of taking other cultures and putting them into our own? Or going round the world shooting people and stealing their shit? Or maybe xe's just talking about Sunday roasts?
    Quite simply it's about the constant challenge to the power of kings and the concept of rule by consent. It's heavily tied to Christianity and especially the reformation as a way of rejecting the tyranny of rulers which many other parts of the world have suffered in their history. I shall elaborate later but you should take a look for yourself about what Britain means in the world and why it matters.
    Is that why you still have a queen with theoretical power, unique in the west? Also the strongest class divided society in Europe? Or a history of expanding your tyranny to other people?

    K.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

  12. #25832
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoirAvlaa View Post
    British tradition of taking other cultures and putting them into our own? Or going round the world shooting people and stealing their shit? Or maybe xe's just talking about Sunday roasts?
    Quite simply it's about the constant challenge to the power of kings and the concept of rule by consent. It's heavily tied to Christianity and especially the reformation as a way of rejecting the tyranny of rulers which many other parts of the world have suffered in their history. I shall elaborate later but you should take a look for yourself about what Britain means in the world and why it matters.
    Is that why you still have a queen with theoretical power, unique in the west? Also the strongest class divided society in Europe? Or a history of expanding your tyranny to other people?

    K.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
    The British empire was not especially tyrannical, especially once we abolished slavery. The Queen is a perfect symbol of this constraint on power because she is a constitutional monarch so not sure what your point there is. Also unsure why class division is relevant but perhaps you'll explain what you mean?

  13. #25833

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoirAvlaa View Post
    British tradition of taking other cultures and putting them into our own? Or going round the world shooting people and stealing their shit? Or maybe xe's just talking about Sunday roasts?
    Quite simply it's about the constant challenge to the power of kings and the concept of rule by consent. It's heavily tied to Christianity and especially the reformation as a way of rejecting the tyranny of rulers which many other parts of the world have suffered in their history. I shall elaborate later but you should take a look for yourself about what Britain means in the world and why it matters.
    Is that why you still have a queen with theoretical power, unique in the west? Also the strongest class divided society in Europe? Or a history of expanding your tyranny to other people?

    K.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
    The British empire was not especially tyrannical, especially once we abolished slavery. The Queen is a perfect symbol of this constraint on power because she is a constitutional monarch so not sure what your point there is. Also unsure why class division is relevant but perhaps you'll explain what you mean?
    It matters because the lower class people will never have much choice in how things are ran for them by the higher class. Come on, someone as smart as you surely doesn't need this explained?

    Also I love how you just defined the crown as non tyrannical because it didn't affect your people. Go ask the colonies thst wanted nothing to do with you.

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  14. #25834
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoirAvlaa View Post
    British tradition of taking other cultures and putting them into our own? Or going round the world shooting people and stealing their shit? Or maybe xe's just talking about Sunday roasts?
    Quite simply it's about the constant challenge to the power of kings and the concept of rule by consent. It's heavily tied to Christianity and especially the reformation as a way of rejecting the tyranny of rulers which many other parts of the world have suffered in their history. I shall elaborate later but you should take a look for yourself about what Britain means in the world and why it matters.
    Is that why you still have a queen with theoretical power, unique in the west? Also the strongest class divided society in Europe? Or a history of expanding your tyranny to other people?

    K.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
    The British empire was not especially tyrannical, especially once we abolished slavery. The Queen is a perfect symbol of this constraint on power because she is a constitutional monarch so not sure what your point there is. Also unsure why class division is relevant but perhaps you'll explain what you mean?
    It matters because the lower class people will never have much choice in how things are ran for them by the higher class. Come on, someone as smart as you surely doesn't need this explained?

    Also I love how you just defined the crown as non tyrannical because it didn't affect your people. Go ask the colonies thst wanted nothing to do with you.

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    Compared to past empires the British one was pretty civil. Not perfect no and I don't think it should be restored or anything but it's in the past now so what does it matter? As for the lower classes they can vote these days y'know and indeed they did vote in larger numbers to leave the EU. Seems your concern for the lower class only extends to them making decisions you agree with.

  15. #25835

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NoirAvlaa View Post
    British tradition of taking other cultures and putting them into our own? Or going round the world shooting people and stealing their shit? Or maybe xe's just talking about Sunday roasts?
    Quite simply it's about the constant challenge to the power of kings and the concept of rule by consent. It's heavily tied to Christianity and especially the reformation as a way of rejecting the tyranny of rulers which many other parts of the world have suffered in their history. I shall elaborate later but you should take a look for yourself about what Britain means in the world and why it matters.
    Is that why you still have a queen with theoretical power, unique in the west? Also the strongest class divided society in Europe? Or a history of expanding your tyranny to other people?

    K.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
    The British empire was not especially tyrannical, especially once we abolished slavery. The Queen is a perfect symbol of this constraint on power because she is a constitutional monarch so not sure what your point there is. Also unsure why class division is relevant but perhaps you'll explain what you mean?
    It matters because the lower class people will never have much choice in how things are ran for them by the higher class. Come on, someone as smart as you surely doesn't need this explained?

    Also I love how you just defined the crown as non tyrannical because it didn't affect your people. Go ask the colonies thst wanted nothing to do with you.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
    Compared to past empires the British one was pretty civil. Not perfect no and I don't think it should be restored or anything but it's in the past now so what does it matter? As for the lower classes they can vote these days y'know and indeed they did vote in larger numbers to leave the EU. Seems your concern for the lower class only extends to them making decisions you agree with.
    So now we're being historically relative, we're saying the past doesn't matter (even though your whole argument is based on it) and we're assuming things about me not caring as what I care about is in any way relevant to the argument at hand.

    Bravo, applause worthy farce.

    Also I'll correct you. The larger number of people "voted" for no change. Because that's what not voting meant, that you didn't care about changing the system
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    Last edited by Isyel; November 14 2017 at 10:42:16 AM.

  16. #25836
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    I didn't bring up the empire just pointing out it wasn't this terrible thing people claim and also saying it doesn't really matter much today as it no longer exists.

    All you do is say how I'm not work arguing with but all you can come up with is the same old repetition. Why not make an actual case for why you think the UK should be punished for leaving the EU or why you think it's okay for our culture to be erased by the EU? Presumably you're happy for Slovenian culture to eventually disappear given your previous posting.

  17. #25837

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Contemporary Poster View Post
    I didn't bring up the empire just pointing out it wasn't this terrible thing people claim and also saying it doesn't really matter much today as it no longer exists.

    All you do is say how I'm not work arguing with but all you can come up with is the same old repetition. Why not make an actual case for why you think the UK should be punished for leaving the EU or why you think it's okay for our culture to be erased by the EU? Presumably you're happy for Slovenian culture to eventually disappear given your previous posting.
    It's not disappearing though. The interesting bits are kept for flavour, the rest should change to suit modern times and modern people.

    Modern Tradition was invented when countries were forming as it gave the governments legitimacy which was in previous times given by god/the sun/insert holy thing here. It gave them a right to the land and its people. It also gave them grounds to shit on other people freely. So excuse me if I don't see it as some holy concept set in stone.

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  18. #25838
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    Modernity is not a culture though, if anything it's a lack of distinctive culture. One can preserve their own culture even in the modern age if they wish to. But they won't ever be able to if forced to subsume themselves among the EU monoculture that Brussels wants to build.

    The EU ultimately conflicts with our own democracy so one of them had to give and I'd much prefer it be the EU since its simply not a democratic arrangement. It doesn't mean I hate Europeans or anything, I just don't think that's the right path for us. Not sure why it upsets you so much.

  19. #25839
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    Why should our culture be protected so much though? Why shouldn't we embrace change? I don't see the EU as being undemocratic at all, but then again I'm biased as where I'm from massively benefits from the EU.

  20. #25840
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoirAvlaa View Post
    Why should our culture be protected so much though? Why shouldn't we embrace change? I don't see the EU as being undemocratic at all, but then again I'm biased as where I'm from massively benefits from the EU.
    Because it is special and unique and it belongs to us. Why do you think it should be destroyed?

    The EU isn't democratic because it doesn't have an opposition and much of its rules are introduced without popular consent derived from legitimate elections but by private negotiations between governments. Crucially we cannot vote in a government with the power to repeal EU laws and this is an enormous democratic deficit.

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