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Thread: (UK EURO WAFFLE) Limey Civil War

  1. #22481
    GeromeDoutrande's Avatar
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    1) It's a bribe.
    2) It will be taken from another budget.
    3) Favoring a unionist party in NI is not a good idea if you are the UK government.

  2. #22482
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Thanks, fair enough.

    Tapapapatalk
    nevar forget

  3. #22483

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Thanks, fair enough.

    Tapapapatalk
    Tbh, 1bn in NI isnt a bad thing. It certainly bloody needs investment in places. It's all the other shit thats the problem. Where did the 1bn come from when we can't fund the NHS or other services? Why does NI only now magically deserve it? What about the peace agreement? Power sharing? What policies have the Tories promised to support (for reference, the DUP have some batshit crazy policy desires)?

    And so on. It's just a naked bribe to a party that should never be in power, and Theresa May is now beholden to the DUP of all fucking people.

    Also...half the senior members don't believe in dinosaurs. Seriously.

  4. #22484
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 56k Lagman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    An interesting take on the farmers' perspective on Brexit.

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/ng...n-rhodri-video

    I found this pretty interesting, certainly challenged some of my preconceptions.

    I'd love to see an economic breakdown of where EU farming subsidies actually end up in economic terms (e.g. reducing the cost of milk, or in farmers pockets? Or in supermarkets?)
    So are they trying to imply that farmers have been screwed over for years and the only thing keeping them afloat has been the EU, whos subsidies have essentially masked how fucked the market is in the UK? That's what I got from it but I'm not 100% on it
    That's what I got from it.
    I got a completely different message, or at least conclusion, from it.

    The subsidies and EU (tariff less trade) are the REASON things are so fucked. If Farmers dont take subsidies and charge fuck all for milk, they can't compete with cheap milk from [Poland etc] because no milk buyers (processers, supermarkets, cafes) are willing to pay more for local unsubsidised milk.

    The whole thing is a critique of the impact of globalisation on traditional industries; an explanation of why some of the biggest recipients of EU funding voted for Brexit. We want things as cheap and efficient as possible, and place no value on tradition, community or the soft-benefits small scale farming provides to communities like food security and low transport distances and less environmental impact.

    I'm not saying this persuaded me to change my mind, but it certainly made me empathise with a viewpoint I previously really didn't understand at all (I just thought they were dumb).
    Last edited by Lallante; June 29 2017 at 10:01:43 AM.

  5. #22485
    Donor Shiodome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Thanks, fair enough.

    Tapapapatalk
    Tbh, 1bn in NI isnt a bad thing. It certainly bloody needs investment in places. It's all the other shit thats the problem. Where did the 1bn come from when we can't fund the NHS or other services? Why does NI only now magically deserve it? What about the peace agreement? Power sharing? What policies have the Tories promised to support (for reference, the DUP have some batshit crazy policy desires)?

    And so on. It's just a naked bribe to a party that should never be in power, and Theresa May is now beholden to the DUP of all fucking people.

    Also...half the senior members don't believe in dinosaurs. Seriously.
    it's like getting into bed with the American Republican party. seriously, it's that bad.

  6. #22486

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiodome View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Thanks, fair enough.

    Tapapapatalk
    Tbh, 1bn in NI isnt a bad thing. It certainly bloody needs investment in places. It's all the other shit thats the problem. Where did the 1bn come from when we can't fund the NHS or other services? Why does NI only now magically deserve it? What about the peace agreement? Power sharing? What policies have the Tories promised to support (for reference, the DUP have some batshit crazy policy desires)?

    And so on. It's just a naked bribe to a party that should never be in power, and Theresa May is now beholden to the DUP of all fucking people.

    Also...half the senior members don't believe in dinosaurs. Seriously.
    it's like getting into bed with the American Republican party. seriously, it's that bad.
    Worse: it's like getting into bed with the Tea Party wing of the Republicans.

  7. #22487
    Donor Spawinte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 56k Lagman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    An interesting take on the farmers' perspective on Brexit.

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/ng...n-rhodri-video

    I found this pretty interesting, certainly challenged some of my preconceptions.

    I'd love to see an economic breakdown of where EU farming subsidies actually end up in economic terms (e.g. reducing the cost of milk, or in farmers pockets? Or in supermarkets?)
    So are they trying to imply that farmers have been screwed over for years and the only thing keeping them afloat has been the EU, whos subsidies have essentially masked how fucked the market is in the UK? That's what I got from it but I'm not 100% on it
    That's what I got from it.
    I got a completely different message, or at least conclusion, from it.

    The subsidies and EU (tariff less trade) are the REASON things are so fucked. If Farmers dont take subsidies and charge fuck all for milk, they can't compete with cheap milk from [Poland etc] because no milk buyers (processers, supermarkets, cafes) are willing to pay more for local unsubsidised milk.

    The whole thing is a critique of the impact of globalisation on traditional industries; an explanation of why some of the biggest recipients of EU funding voted for Brexit. We want things as cheap and efficient as possible, and place no value on tradition, community or the soft-benefits small scale farming provides to communities like food security and low transport distances and less environmental impact.

    I'm not saying this persuaded me to change my mind, but it certainly made me empathise with a viewpoint I previously really didn't understand at all (I just thought they were dumb).
    Also the fact that it was in Welsh interspersed with English phrases ("FUCK SAKE") made it somewhat comedic.

  8. #22488
    Donor Lorkin Desal's Avatar
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    Watched Parliament expecting hilarity and no payrise.

    Didn't get a payrise.

    Job Success.

    Inflation 3%.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo
    The evolution of the meme. From shipspinning to meatspinning.

  9. #22489
    Smuggo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 56k Lagman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    An interesting take on the farmers' perspective on Brexit.

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/ng...n-rhodri-video

    I found this pretty interesting, certainly challenged some of my preconceptions.

    I'd love to see an economic breakdown of where EU farming subsidies actually end up in economic terms (e.g. reducing the cost of milk, or in farmers pockets? Or in supermarkets?)
    So are they trying to imply that farmers have been screwed over for years and the only thing keeping them afloat has been the EU, whos subsidies have essentially masked how fucked the market is in the UK? That's what I got from it but I'm not 100% on it
    That's what I got from it.
    I got a completely different message, or at least conclusion, from it.

    The subsidies and EU (tariff less trade) are the REASON things are so fucked. If Farmers dont take subsidies and charge fuck all for milk, they can't compete with cheap milk from [Poland etc] because no milk buyers (processers, supermarkets, cafes) are willing to pay more for local unsubsidised milk.

    The whole thing is a critique of the impact of globalisation on traditional industries; an explanation of why some of the biggest recipients of EU funding voted for Brexit. We want things as cheap and efficient as possible, and place no value on tradition, community or the soft-benefits small scale farming provides to communities like food security and low transport distances and less environmental impact.

    I'm not saying this persuaded me to change my mind, but it certainly made me empathise with a viewpoint I previously really didn't understand at all (I just thought they were dumb).
    Actually farm subsidies were set up originally so European producers could compete with those outside Europe. However bringing in the eastern block kinda fucked with that.

  10. #22490
    Smuggo
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    The Graun reckons it is fairly likely the government will have to back the Labour amendment on access to abortion. There's a real risk they would get backbenchers rebelling if they whip against it, either way it's a loss of face for the Tories.

  11. #22491
    Donor Spawinte's Avatar
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    So Labours strategy is to goof with NI related stuff to try and upset the DUP. I like it. Be some laugh if the DUP are forced to vote for a QS containing abortion funding.

  12. #22492
    Smuggo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spawinte View Post
    So Labours strategy is to goof with NI related stuff to try and upset the DUP. I like it. Be some laugh if the DUP are forced to vote for a QS containing abortion funding.
    This amendment was tabled a Labour backbencher actually.

    The other amendment, from Obama wannabe Chukka, is a bit more of a problem for Labour as it's the usual "we should stay in free market and customs union" thing which everyone should really realise is the worst possible option around for Brexit and which the Labour front bench will likely whip against.

  13. #22493
    NoirAvlaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    We don't even tax basic food stuff in Africa, like no VAT on a list of items that I'm p sure includes bread and milk, so that's 17% VAT anywhere in the milk or bread production chain for SA.

    Granted, I'm p sure the intention there was to make it more affordable for the end user, but still.
    They don't tax basic foods in most countries m8.
    Or give it a lower tax rate. VAT is 19% here, but 7% for food items and other certain necessities (newspapers, books for example).
    It's 0% for basic foodstuff here.
    To clarify things: cake is classed as basic, but biscuits aren't.
    What about jaffa cakes?

  14. #22494
    Smuggo
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoirAvlaa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    We don't even tax basic food stuff in Africa, like no VAT on a list of items that I'm p sure includes bread and milk, so that's 17% VAT anywhere in the milk or bread production chain for SA.

    Granted, I'm p sure the intention there was to make it more affordable for the end user, but still.
    They don't tax basic foods in most countries m8.
    Or give it a lower tax rate. VAT is 19% here, but 7% for food items and other certain necessities (newspapers, books for example).
    It's 0% for basic foodstuff here.
    To clarify things: cake is classed as basic, but biscuits aren't.
    What about jaffa cakes?
    #teacakegate

  15. #22495

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoirAvlaa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    We don't even tax basic food stuff in Africa, like no VAT on a list of items that I'm p sure includes bread and milk, so that's 17% VAT anywhere in the milk or bread production chain for SA.

    Granted, I'm p sure the intention there was to make it more affordable for the end user, but still.
    They don't tax basic foods in most countries m8.
    Or give it a lower tax rate. VAT is 19% here, but 7% for food items and other certain necessities (newspapers, books for example).
    It's 0% for basic foodstuff here.
    To clarify things: cake is classed as basic, but biscuits aren't.
    What about jaffa cakes?
    As per the famous court case, Jaffa Cakes are cakes because they go hard when stale and are therefore exempt from VAT.

  16. #22496
    Smuggo
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    Interesting bit from The Times today. Paywalled so have quoted some of it below. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...-bus-xshs7h7rj

    There is much to be said for confidence and hope. There is nothing to be said for Panglossian fantasy, particularly when one man holds the future of our country in his hands. It did not go down well with many of those in the room: one grim-faced CEO, until then agnostic on Brexit, turned to me to say that listening to Davis had been the most disturbing half an hour he had spent in months.....

    ...The comments from those who’ve worked with him are scathing: “hates to listen to advice”, “delusions of grandeur”, ”vain and quixotic”, “all noise and bluster”. One appalled politician told me: “He has no practical sense of the realities he’s about to confront”. Businesses, diplomats and civil servants report that he prefers assertion to getting to grips with inconvenient facts.

    His department, Dexeu, is finding it hard to recruit and keep staff, in part because Davis has acquired a reputation as a difficult man to work for. He is said to have learned more realism than Liam Fox and Boris Johnson, but that’s a low bar to pass. “He’s not interested in evidence when it doesn’t suit him,” says one insider. Much like the Red Queen, he is capable of thinking six contradictory things before breakfast. An economist reports: “All the evidence of economic benefits that he uses to justify new trade deals is the same evidence that he dismisses when it comes to the effects of leaving the EU.”....

    ....Businesses that have come to see Davis have been left aghast at the lack of detailed understanding. Pharmaceutical companies are afraid of losing free access to the European medicines market; aerospace representatives warned him that the plans to leave the customs union and the single market would destroy their ability to import and export parts freely, and that without that Britain’s aerospace industry would collapse. Davis fobbed them all off with vague assurances that none of this was a problem; it would all be fine. They were not reassured....

  17. #22497

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Interesting bit from The Times today. Paywalled so have quoted some of it below. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...-bus-xshs7h7rj

    There is much to be said for confidence and hope. There is nothing to be said for Panglossian fantasy, particularly when one man holds the future of our country in his hands. It did not go down well with many of those in the room: one grim-faced CEO, until then agnostic on Brexit, turned to me to say that listening to Davis had been the most disturbing half an hour he had spent in months.....

    ...The comments from those who’ve worked with him are scathing: “hates to listen to advice”, “delusions of grandeur”, ”vain and quixotic”, “all noise and bluster”. One appalled politician told me: “He has no practical sense of the realities he’s about to confront”. Businesses, diplomats and civil servants report that he prefers assertion to getting to grips with inconvenient facts.

    His department, Dexeu, is finding it hard to recruit and keep staff, in part because Davis has acquired a reputation as a difficult man to work for. He is said to have learned more realism than Liam Fox and Boris Johnson, but that’s a low bar to pass. “He’s not interested in evidence when it doesn’t suit him,” says one insider. Much like the Red Queen, he is capable of thinking six contradictory things before breakfast. An economist reports: “All the evidence of economic benefits that he uses to justify new trade deals is the same evidence that he dismisses when it comes to the effects of leaving the EU.”....

    ....Businesses that have come to see Davis have been left aghast at the lack of detailed understanding. Pharmaceutical companies are afraid of losing free access to the European medicines market; aerospace representatives warned him that the plans to leave the customs union and the single market would destroy their ability to import and export parts freely, and that without that Britain’s aerospace industry would collapse. Davis fobbed them all off with vague assurances that none of this was a problem; it would all be fine. They were not reassured....
    I know that the data centre industry has also sent people to see the DExEU and come away with nonsense.

  18. #22498
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    I don't know what is scarier; how incompetent a job of negotiating Brexit we are currently doing, or the nagging suspicion that even if we had the best negotiators in the world, the idea itself is so rotten that we would still be fucked.

  19. #22499
    Movember '11 Ginger Excellence Movember 2011Movember 2012 sarabando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 56k Lagman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    An interesting take on the farmers' perspective on Brexit.

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/ng...n-rhodri-video

    I found this pretty interesting, certainly challenged some of my preconceptions.

    I'd love to see an economic breakdown of where EU farming subsidies actually end up in economic terms (e.g. reducing the cost of milk, or in farmers pockets? Or in supermarkets?)
    So are they trying to imply that farmers have been screwed over for years and the only thing keeping them afloat has been the EU, whos subsidies have essentially masked how fucked the market is in the UK? That's what I got from it but I'm not 100% on it
    That's what I got from it.
    I got a completely different message, or at least conclusion, from it.

    The subsidies and EU (tariff less trade) are the REASON things are so fucked. If Farmers dont take subsidies and charge fuck all for milk, they can't compete with cheap milk from [Poland etc] because no milk buyers (processers, supermarkets, cafes) are willing to pay more for local unsubsidised milk.

    The whole thing is a critique of the impact of globalisation on traditional industries; an explanation of why some of the biggest recipients of EU funding voted for Brexit. We want things as cheap and efficient as possible, and place no value on tradition, community or the soft-benefits small scale farming provides to communities like food security and low transport distances and less environmental impact.

    I'm not saying this persuaded me to change my mind, but it certainly made me empathise with a viewpoint I previously really didn't understand at all (I just thought they were dumb).
    Actually farm subsidies were set up originally so European producers could compete with those outside Europe. However bringing in the eastern block kinda fucked with that.
    The Dairy farmer near where i lived once told me due to their subsidies, if the price of milk in Asda dropped by a penny retail he would make more from pouring it all down the drain and writing it off to the EU. Farming is fucked.

  20. #22500
    Smuggo
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarabando View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 56k Lagman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    An interesting take on the farmers' perspective on Brexit.

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/ng...n-rhodri-video

    I found this pretty interesting, certainly challenged some of my preconceptions.

    I'd love to see an economic breakdown of where EU farming subsidies actually end up in economic terms (e.g. reducing the cost of milk, or in farmers pockets? Or in supermarkets?)
    So are they trying to imply that farmers have been screwed over for years and the only thing keeping them afloat has been the EU, whos subsidies have essentially masked how fucked the market is in the UK? That's what I got from it but I'm not 100% on it
    That's what I got from it.
    I got a completely different message, or at least conclusion, from it.

    The subsidies and EU (tariff less trade) are the REASON things are so fucked. If Farmers dont take subsidies and charge fuck all for milk, they can't compete with cheap milk from [Poland etc] because no milk buyers (processers, supermarkets, cafes) are willing to pay more for local unsubsidised milk.

    The whole thing is a critique of the impact of globalisation on traditional industries; an explanation of why some of the biggest recipients of EU funding voted for Brexit. We want things as cheap and efficient as possible, and place no value on tradition, community or the soft-benefits small scale farming provides to communities like food security and low transport distances and less environmental impact.

    I'm not saying this persuaded me to change my mind, but it certainly made me empathise with a viewpoint I previously really didn't understand at all (I just thought they were dumb).
    Actually farm subsidies were set up originally so European producers could compete with those outside Europe. However bringing in the eastern block kinda fucked with that.
    The Dairy farmer near where i lived once told me due to their subsidies, if the price of milk in Asda dropped by a penny retail he would make more from pouring it all down the drain and writing it off to the EU. Farming is fucked.
    Well of course, but the EU puts money into to ensure it doesn't die out entirely, as that would leave us all vulnerable were there to be a major world conflict as we'd have lost the skills and equipment to make our own food. So they are happy for massive amounts to be wasted in order to keep the capacity there, and it's a valid policy to take.

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