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Thread: (UK EURO WAFFLE) Limey Civil War

  1. #23461

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    We don't even tax basic food stuff in Africa, like no VAT on a list of items that I'm p sure includes bread and milk, so that's 17% VAT anywhere in the milk or bread production chain for SA.

    Granted, I'm p sure the intention there was to make it more affordable for the end user, but still.
    They don't tax basic foods in most countries m8.
    Or give it a lower tax rate. VAT is 19% here, but 7% for food items and other certain necessities (newspapers, books for example).
    It's 0% for basic foodstuff here.
    To clarify things: cake is classed as basic, but biscuits aren't.

  2. #23462
    Smuggo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    So earlier this afternoon No 10 was saying they would drop the public sector pay cap, now they've changed their mind again and aren't, presumably because the Chancellor said they can't.

    Amazing strength and stability.
    Welcome to the Byzantine and Machiavellian world of the Tory Party.

    1: Backbenchers are worried they might lose their seats, and need to let their constituents think that they're nice people really. They know the pay cap is unpopular.

    2: Senior Tories help them out by publicly saying they want to look at it.

    3: Backbenchers can now vote down the Labour amendment to the Queen's Speech while saying that the cap is going to be looked at and they're working to get rid of it

    4: The PM confirms the cap is still in place.

    5: Backbenchers can tell their constituents that at least they tried.
    The first vote of Parliament was essentially symbolic. If a Labour amendment had been passed it would have signaled the immediate demise of the government so like it or not Tories weren't going to support this amendment and immediately cause another government crisis.

    But to choose something that is in the DUP manifesto and which many conservatives have openly signalled they support is smart for Labour because it means some of those MPs will be telling constituents one thing while voting the other way. It also signals the other parties are willing to back Labour amendments which means every single vote all ministers and MPs will have to be recalled to Westminster for every single vote which will further hamper government business.



  3. #23463
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    What's in the deal with the DUP anyway?

    That 1bn, is that investment into North Ireland and why is investing into a region bad? Is it because it was the DUP's idea?

    I'm genuinely curious.

    Tapapapatalk
    nevar forget

  4. #23464

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    What's in the deal with the DUP anyway?

    That 1bn, is that investment into North Ireland and why is investing into a region bad? Is it because it was the DUP's idea?

    I'm genuinely curious.

    Tapapapatalk
    Investing in a region isnt bad.
    Investing in a region because you're bribing a bunch of religious loons, and at the expense of OTHER regions, is bad.

    And who knows what they got promised other than the 1bn? Considering power sharing talks between the DUP and Sinn Fein are collapsing, which way might the UK government lean as "independent" arbitrators? For example.

  5. #23465
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    What's in the deal with the DUP anyway?

    That 1bn, is that investment into North Ireland and why is investing into a region bad? Is it because it was the DUP's idea?

    I'm genuinely curious.

    Tapapapatalk
    Because the rest of the country is being told there's no money for public services is why its a problem.



  6. #23466
    GeromeDoutrande's Avatar
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    1) It's a bribe.
    2) It will be taken from another budget.
    3) Favoring a unionist party in NI is not a good idea if you are the UK government.

  7. #23467
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Thanks, fair enough.

    Tapapapatalk
    nevar forget

  8. #23468

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Thanks, fair enough.

    Tapapapatalk
    Tbh, 1bn in NI isnt a bad thing. It certainly bloody needs investment in places. It's all the other shit thats the problem. Where did the 1bn come from when we can't fund the NHS or other services? Why does NI only now magically deserve it? What about the peace agreement? Power sharing? What policies have the Tories promised to support (for reference, the DUP have some batshit crazy policy desires)?

    And so on. It's just a naked bribe to a party that should never be in power, and Theresa May is now beholden to the DUP of all fucking people.

    Also...half the senior members don't believe in dinosaurs. Seriously.

  9. #23469
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 56k Lagman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    An interesting take on the farmers' perspective on Brexit.

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/ng...n-rhodri-video

    I found this pretty interesting, certainly challenged some of my preconceptions.

    I'd love to see an economic breakdown of where EU farming subsidies actually end up in economic terms (e.g. reducing the cost of milk, or in farmers pockets? Or in supermarkets?)
    So are they trying to imply that farmers have been screwed over for years and the only thing keeping them afloat has been the EU, whos subsidies have essentially masked how fucked the market is in the UK? That's what I got from it but I'm not 100% on it
    That's what I got from it.
    I got a completely different message, or at least conclusion, from it.

    The subsidies and EU (tariff less trade) are the REASON things are so fucked. If Farmers dont take subsidies and charge fuck all for milk, they can't compete with cheap milk from [Poland etc] because no milk buyers (processers, supermarkets, cafes) are willing to pay more for local unsubsidised milk.

    The whole thing is a critique of the impact of globalisation on traditional industries; an explanation of why some of the biggest recipients of EU funding voted for Brexit. We want things as cheap and efficient as possible, and place no value on tradition, community or the soft-benefits small scale farming provides to communities like food security and low transport distances and less environmental impact.

    I'm not saying this persuaded me to change my mind, but it certainly made me empathise with a viewpoint I previously really didn't understand at all (I just thought they were dumb).
    Last edited by Lallante; June 29 2017 at 09:01:43 AM.

  10. #23470
    Donor Shiodome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Thanks, fair enough.

    Tapapapatalk
    Tbh, 1bn in NI isnt a bad thing. It certainly bloody needs investment in places. It's all the other shit thats the problem. Where did the 1bn come from when we can't fund the NHS or other services? Why does NI only now magically deserve it? What about the peace agreement? Power sharing? What policies have the Tories promised to support (for reference, the DUP have some batshit crazy policy desires)?

    And so on. It's just a naked bribe to a party that should never be in power, and Theresa May is now beholden to the DUP of all fucking people.

    Also...half the senior members don't believe in dinosaurs. Seriously.
    it's like getting into bed with the American Republican party. seriously, it's that bad.

  11. #23471

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiodome View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Thanks, fair enough.

    Tapapapatalk
    Tbh, 1bn in NI isnt a bad thing. It certainly bloody needs investment in places. It's all the other shit thats the problem. Where did the 1bn come from when we can't fund the NHS or other services? Why does NI only now magically deserve it? What about the peace agreement? Power sharing? What policies have the Tories promised to support (for reference, the DUP have some batshit crazy policy desires)?

    And so on. It's just a naked bribe to a party that should never be in power, and Theresa May is now beholden to the DUP of all fucking people.

    Also...half the senior members don't believe in dinosaurs. Seriously.
    it's like getting into bed with the American Republican party. seriously, it's that bad.
    Worse: it's like getting into bed with the Tea Party wing of the Republicans.

  12. #23472
    Donor Spawinte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 56k Lagman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    An interesting take on the farmers' perspective on Brexit.

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/ng...n-rhodri-video

    I found this pretty interesting, certainly challenged some of my preconceptions.

    I'd love to see an economic breakdown of where EU farming subsidies actually end up in economic terms (e.g. reducing the cost of milk, or in farmers pockets? Or in supermarkets?)
    So are they trying to imply that farmers have been screwed over for years and the only thing keeping them afloat has been the EU, whos subsidies have essentially masked how fucked the market is in the UK? That's what I got from it but I'm not 100% on it
    That's what I got from it.
    I got a completely different message, or at least conclusion, from it.

    The subsidies and EU (tariff less trade) are the REASON things are so fucked. If Farmers dont take subsidies and charge fuck all for milk, they can't compete with cheap milk from [Poland etc] because no milk buyers (processers, supermarkets, cafes) are willing to pay more for local unsubsidised milk.

    The whole thing is a critique of the impact of globalisation on traditional industries; an explanation of why some of the biggest recipients of EU funding voted for Brexit. We want things as cheap and efficient as possible, and place no value on tradition, community or the soft-benefits small scale farming provides to communities like food security and low transport distances and less environmental impact.

    I'm not saying this persuaded me to change my mind, but it certainly made me empathise with a viewpoint I previously really didn't understand at all (I just thought they were dumb).
    Also the fact that it was in Welsh interspersed with English phrases ("FUCK SAKE") made it somewhat comedic.

  13. #23473
    Donor Lorkin Desal's Avatar
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    Watched Parliament expecting hilarity and no payrise.

    Didn't get a payrise.

    Job Success.

    Inflation 3%.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo
    The evolution of the meme. From shipspinning to meatspinning.

  14. #23474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 56k Lagman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    An interesting take on the farmers' perspective on Brexit.

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/ng...n-rhodri-video

    I found this pretty interesting, certainly challenged some of my preconceptions.

    I'd love to see an economic breakdown of where EU farming subsidies actually end up in economic terms (e.g. reducing the cost of milk, or in farmers pockets? Or in supermarkets?)
    So are they trying to imply that farmers have been screwed over for years and the only thing keeping them afloat has been the EU, whos subsidies have essentially masked how fucked the market is in the UK? That's what I got from it but I'm not 100% on it
    That's what I got from it.
    I got a completely different message, or at least conclusion, from it.

    The subsidies and EU (tariff less trade) are the REASON things are so fucked. If Farmers dont take subsidies and charge fuck all for milk, they can't compete with cheap milk from [Poland etc] because no milk buyers (processers, supermarkets, cafes) are willing to pay more for local unsubsidised milk.

    The whole thing is a critique of the impact of globalisation on traditional industries; an explanation of why some of the biggest recipients of EU funding voted for Brexit. We want things as cheap and efficient as possible, and place no value on tradition, community or the soft-benefits small scale farming provides to communities like food security and low transport distances and less environmental impact.

    I'm not saying this persuaded me to change my mind, but it certainly made me empathise with a viewpoint I previously really didn't understand at all (I just thought they were dumb).
    Actually farm subsidies were set up originally so European producers could compete with those outside Europe. However bringing in the eastern block kinda fucked with that.



  15. #23475
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    The Graun reckons it is fairly likely the government will have to back the Labour amendment on access to abortion. There's a real risk they would get backbenchers rebelling if they whip against it, either way it's a loss of face for the Tories.



  16. #23476
    Donor Spawinte's Avatar
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    So Labours strategy is to goof with NI related stuff to try and upset the DUP. I like it. Be some laugh if the DUP are forced to vote for a QS containing abortion funding.

  17. #23477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spawinte View Post
    So Labours strategy is to goof with NI related stuff to try and upset the DUP. I like it. Be some laugh if the DUP are forced to vote for a QS containing abortion funding.
    This amendment was tabled a Labour backbencher actually.

    The other amendment, from Obama wannabe Chukka, is a bit more of a problem for Labour as it's the usual "we should stay in free market and customs union" thing which everyone should really realise is the worst possible option around for Brexit and which the Labour front bench will likely whip against.



  18. #23478
    NoirAvlaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    We don't even tax basic food stuff in Africa, like no VAT on a list of items that I'm p sure includes bread and milk, so that's 17% VAT anywhere in the milk or bread production chain for SA.

    Granted, I'm p sure the intention there was to make it more affordable for the end user, but still.
    They don't tax basic foods in most countries m8.
    Or give it a lower tax rate. VAT is 19% here, but 7% for food items and other certain necessities (newspapers, books for example).
    It's 0% for basic foodstuff here.
    To clarify things: cake is classed as basic, but biscuits aren't.
    What about jaffa cakes?

  19. #23479
    Smuggo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoirAvlaa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    We don't even tax basic food stuff in Africa, like no VAT on a list of items that I'm p sure includes bread and milk, so that's 17% VAT anywhere in the milk or bread production chain for SA.

    Granted, I'm p sure the intention there was to make it more affordable for the end user, but still.
    They don't tax basic foods in most countries m8.
    Or give it a lower tax rate. VAT is 19% here, but 7% for food items and other certain necessities (newspapers, books for example).
    It's 0% for basic foodstuff here.
    To clarify things: cake is classed as basic, but biscuits aren't.
    What about jaffa cakes?
    #teacakegate



  20. #23480

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoirAvlaa View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    We don't even tax basic food stuff in Africa, like no VAT on a list of items that I'm p sure includes bread and milk, so that's 17% VAT anywhere in the milk or bread production chain for SA.

    Granted, I'm p sure the intention there was to make it more affordable for the end user, but still.
    They don't tax basic foods in most countries m8.
    Or give it a lower tax rate. VAT is 19% here, but 7% for food items and other certain necessities (newspapers, books for example).
    It's 0% for basic foodstuff here.
    To clarify things: cake is classed as basic, but biscuits aren't.
    What about jaffa cakes?
    As per the famous court case, Jaffa Cakes are cakes because they go hard when stale and are therefore exempt from VAT.

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