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Thread: (UK EURO WAFFLE) Limey Civil War

  1. #30161
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    China is now starting to care that there will be a world with an environment worth living in after the west tears itself apart and China becomes the first truly global empire.
    China only started to care when the president for life decided that China would rather produce and trade high-end tech goods than make cheap crap. Developing environment solutions is just part of that. And it only looks good in comparison with the US gutting their environmental policies, and because China lags so massively far behind (and has already caused massive environmental damage to itself, and the rest of the world).

    It's good that they're finally waking up to this threat, but they have a long long way to go, and for now it is mostly talk and low hanging fruit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  2. #30162
    Sp4m's Avatar
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    Its not talk and low hanging fruit you buffoon.


    just one fucking example -



    there are many, many more.

  3. #30163
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    The catch is now the surrounding cost. Inverters, labor, etc. The bloody things are still not profitable.


    

  4. #30164
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    The catch is now the surrounding cost. Inverters, labor, etc. The bloody things are still not profitable.
    Energy prices are anchored by fossil fuels which externalise all their costs as future environmental catastrophe. It's not exactly a sensible market.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  5. #30165

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    China is now starting to care that there will be a world with an environment worth living in after the west tears itself apart and China becomes the first truly global empire.
    I mean don't get me wrong but I'm quite sure UK was the first truly global empire.
    I mean, don't get me wrong, but if I'm not mistaken, up until now Genghis Khan created the largest empire in mankind's history. One might argue the "global" bit, but given how much inhabitants of different continents knew about/interacted with the other, I'd qualify it also as "global".

  6. #30166
    rufuske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    China is now starting to care that there will be a world with an environment worth living in after the west tears itself apart and China becomes the first truly global empire.
    I mean don't get me wrong but I'm quite sure UK was the first truly global empire.
    I mean, don't get me wrong, but if I'm not mistaken, up until now Genghis Khan created the largest empire in mankind's history. One might argue the "global" bit, but given how much inhabitants of different continents knew about/interacted with the other, I'd qualify it also as "global".
    Alexander?

  7. #30167
    Donor lubica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    China is now starting to care that there will be a world with an environment worth living in after the west tears itself apart and China becomes the first truly global empire.
    I mean don't get me wrong but I'm quite sure UK was the first truly global empire.
    I mean, don't get me wrong, but if I'm not mistaken, up until now Genghis Khan created the largest empire in mankind's history. One might argue the "global" bit, but given how much inhabitants of different continents knew about/interacted with the other, I'd qualify it also as "global".
    Alexander?
    Not even close. And compared to the British Empire at the height of its colonialism, neither was Genghis Khan, even if you attribute to him the entirety of Asia's surface area.

    e: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires
    OK, I guess the Mongols were up there, but the Brits still beat his record by almost 50% more.
    Last edited by lubica; June 6 2018 at 01:45:57 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Narmio
    Welcome to Dwarf Fortress, where there is a fine line between insanity and gameplay. The line menaces with spikes of obsessive compulsion.

  8. #30168
    Keckers's Avatar
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    China will have CCTV covering a further 50% extra.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  9. #30169
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sp4m View Post
    Its not talk and low hanging fruit you buffoon.


    just one fucking example -



    there are many, many more.
    Listen, you moron, what is that even supposed to say?

    China talks a lot, and spends a lot of money. But per head of the population (you know, the entities that do the polluting?) it is actually not that much at all. Same as per size of the Chinese economy. And China seems especially slow and loath to introduce strict environmental rules and regulations that could hurt industry. While large swatches of the country still heat their houses with coal, while their industry is still massively polluting. And while they're still constantly and consistently misrepresenting how badly they're fucking up their own environment (lies, damned lies, and Chinese statistics).

    Who cares that they're trying to corner to the market on solar panels if the sun don't reach the damned panels because the air is so polluted you can hard see the other side of the street because of it!

    Let's face it, China is a big country, with a massive amount of people living in it, and they've been fucking up their environment like there's no tomorrow for the holy grail of economic growth.

    It's good that China's spending money on protecting the environment. And it is good they're sticking with the Paris accords. And it is positive that the Chinese party leadership is (finally) acknowledging that the environment is actually a problem in China (until not too long ago they denied it categorically). But right now, actual change, actual progress, actual action, is still very small and far in between IMHO. If China is actually serious about the environment, and if they actually want to have some impact on these issues, they'll have to do more, and, frankly, slaughter some of their holy cows to get there.

    This far I've heard a lot of words from the Chinese, lots of promises: but seen pretty little willingness to actually make the hard decisions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  10. #30170

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Listen, you moron, what is that even supposed to say?
    It says that linear scaled graphs are useless when dealing with growth.

  11. #30171
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Listen, you moron, what is that even supposed to say?
    It says that linear scaled graphs are useless when dealing with growth.
    OK then ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  12. #30172
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    We had a scientist as PM during the 80s.
    And Merkel holds a doctorate in quantum chemistry, is a published researcher and worked for the East German academy of sciences until 1989. She did increase research spending by 60%.

    You may also remember Margaret Thatcher, who was a chemist.
    Yes, Thatcher was the PM I was referring to. Unless you know of any other British PMs during the 1980s?
    i already mentioned in a different comment that I read PM as MP.
    nevar forget

  13. #30173

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    China is now starting to care that there will be a world with an environment worth living in after the west tears itself apart and China becomes the first truly global empire.
    I mean don't get me wrong but I'm quite sure UK was the first truly global empire.
    You mean it was part of one of the first such empires when the romans occupied uk?

  14. #30174
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    None of the ancients had deep water navies, and therefor could not, by definition, be global powers.
    meh

  15. #30175
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    None of the ancients had deep water navies, and therefor could not, by definition, be global powers.
    Depends on how you define "global". Known world? The Romans sure ruled most of what was known back then (and traded with the rest - side note: a friend from uni was part of an archeological research project into the possibility of a Roman settlement/colony/permanent trade post in India).
    nevar forget

  16. #30176
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    None of the ancients had deep water navies, and therefor could not, by definition, be global powers.
    Depends on how you define "global". Known world? The Romans sure ruled most of what was known back then (and traded with the rest - side note: a friend from uni was part of an archeological research project into the possibility of a Roman settlement/colony/permanent trade post in India).
    "The sun never sets on..."

    Known World is an extremely Eurocentric concept, so no. I disagree. I mean, Phoenicians most likely reached Cape Town, because we've found *some* slight evidence (http://melkbos.net/phoenicians-in-ancient-langebaan/), but thats very different to like, taking Hong Kong with gunboats.
    meh

  17. #30177
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    None of the ancients had deep water navies, and therefor could not, by definition, be global powers.
    Depends on how you define "global". Known world? The Romans sure ruled most of what was known back then (and traded with the rest - side note: a friend from uni was part of an archeological research project into the possibility of a Roman settlement/colony/permanent trade post in India).
    "The sun never sets on..."

    Known World is an extremely Eurocentric concept, so no. I disagree. I mean, Phoenicians most likely reached Cape Town, because we've found *some* slight evidence (http://melkbos.net/phoenicians-in-ancient-langebaan/), but thats very different to like, taking Hong Kong with gunboats.
    History is not what happened but how we interpret the remnants of what happened. So accusing an European of eurocentrism is to me a bit superfluous.

    You are attributing modern standards on past eras, which is a fallacy that historians try to avoid. So to say just because the Roman Empire didn't rule everything they knew about, it wasn't a world power is lazy. However to truly ascertain whether the Romans ruled the world, you need to look at what areas they did know and what they knew about those regions.

    Take a look at this map of Ptolemy. It shows us the extent to which the Romans knew the world. As you will notice, they only have a map of the Mediterranean Sea, Arabian Peninsula, British Isles and a decent idea of what Jutland looks like. So with regards to that knowledge, one can safely say that they ruled the world.

    And when you compare the extent to which the Romans ruled what they knew with the extent of the British Empire and their known world, I think that the Mongols come out ahead anyway.

    Last edited by Joe Appleby; June 6 2018 at 08:35:15 PM. Reason: clarity/grammar correction
    nevar forget

  18. #30178
    Super Chillerator Global Moderator teds :D's Avatar
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    RULE BRITANNIA BRITANNIA RULE THE WAVES

    (incoherent screaming)

  19. #30179
    Movember 2012 Elriche Oshego's Avatar
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    Autistic Anglo screeching

  20. #30180
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lancehot View Post
    Adopting the Chinese model is a quick way to find your fields covered in concrete & rivers catching fire.
    Also when they dam the river and drown Nottingham.
    This is the start of a good policy platform
    Yeah I think this guy has ideas we need to hear
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

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