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Thread: (UK EURO WAFFLE) Limey Civil War

  1. #32781
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    MAKE
    BRITAIN
    GREAT
    AGAIN

  2. #32782

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    I thought we lost it quite a while back. But yes, we certainly are kicking the shit out of whatever shreds remained.

  3. #32783

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    The island formerly known as Great Britain

  4. #32784
    pesadelo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pesadelo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    It is controversial and it's downright offensive. Stop saying it.
    He's linked a lengthy essay with sources and cited further and explained his position and I can definitely see how such a point could be made. Nice counter there, Mr serious internet debate.
    Just so you guys know I am military police in my home country , so after saying this and after reading that essay .

    I'm neither offended or think it is controversial that the police in those particular cities was founded with the point to control the poor/low class citizens.

    What I think it is a bit weird (I am not a history major) is the assumption that all police forces were made in that way , and even if they were , that they still retain that same ethos today.

    One example is when he says that the police in the US/England was not to investigate the crimes because prior crimes were resolved between the defendent and the acussed , why stop in those two exemples and make the leap to the roman/greeks police that were made to do that ?

    Even better the French Police Judiciaire was formed precisely for that , because the least efective way of evidence is victims testemony, using science and investigative work.

    Were he falters and assuming that he is right that all police officers are a tool of repression of the lower castes, do you truly belive that his proposed ideia would work ?I mean no Lawers ?People representing themselfs?

    As much as I loved reading the article , I don't think that destroying "police " would do it , but hey I am biased.

    Enviado do meu SM-G900F através do Tapatalk
    Thanks for at least reading and engaging with the article.

    I don’t disagree that you need some body of professionals capable of investigating crimes to which there is no clear evidence of guilt. But that’s not what the average patrol officer does. The average patrol officer, at least in my neck of the woods, has three basic roles: patrol the city interrogating poor people on suspicion of minor property and status crimes, manage the aftermath of traffic accidents and violent crimes (which the police don’t prevent), and be available for crowd control when people get upset at government policy and protest.

    The first scenario is just straight bullshit, and offensive to my sense of justice, particularly given the issue racial bias and the tendency of police officers to kill people for no good reason (at least in America).

    The second scenario is sensible, but you don’t need a huge paramilitary police force to accomplish it.

    The third scenario is just depressing, and is the root of the whole “class betrayal” issue.

    As for people representing “themselves” in bringing complaints against other citizens for criminal activity, that implies the presence of legal counsel and courts, especially given that lawyers predated the police by several thousand years.
    Well I never did exercises with fellow US police officers, when I went there (Miami ) they were always and seem very professional to me and kind , but that is my anedotal exemple.

    Has for a patrolling officer does in the US I reckon it is the same in most western country's, first and foremost is to engage with the people doing "proximity policing" that goes for everything, going to check on old people,helping out tourists,cheking permits of coffee and establishments, dealing with sound complaints from neighbours etc.

    Has for crimes the patroller usually deals with every spectrum of violence you would imagine and yes they do not (in most cases) investigate the crime , but do the most important thing after the crime, preserving the crime scene so that scientific police and detectives come and do their work, imagine arriving in a homicide scene and most of the evidences are compromised because "normal" people don't usually thing pragmatically about those things.

    And even after all these things , you have to get to the police squadron and loose 1+ hour of your time writing reports most of that on of duty hours.

    I am not trying to absolve the officer's that do shit , because they deserve has everyone a fair trial and just sentence , I just find that most people in the US and even in EU doesn't compreend the amount of shit police officers goes true .

    Now I will grant you one thing , a small percentage of my comrades are fucking testosterone fucking dumbos , but to me that is a mirror of the society we are in, and a complete failure of the trials of the departments to recognise some paterns of behaviour.

    Sorry for the rant , I do think police around the world do need reforms but I also think people are in for a rude awakening if they think extinguishing police will bring a more fair and pleasant life , at least in the world we currently live in.

    Enviado do meu SM-G900F através do Tapatalk

  5. #32785

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    Quote Originally Posted by pesadelo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pesadelo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    It is controversial and it's downright offensive. Stop saying it.
    He's linked a lengthy essay with sources and cited further and explained his position and I can definitely see how such a point could be made. Nice counter there, Mr serious internet debate.
    Just so you guys know I am military police in my home country , so after saying this and after reading that essay .

    I'm neither offended or think it is controversial that the police in those particular cities was founded with the point to control the poor/low class citizens.

    What I think it is a bit weird (I am not a history major) is the assumption that all police forces were made in that way , and even if they were , that they still retain that same ethos today.

    One example is when he says that the police in the US/England was not to investigate the crimes because prior crimes were resolved between the defendent and the acussed , why stop in those two exemples and make the leap to the roman/greeks police that were made to do that ?

    Even better the French Police Judiciaire was formed precisely for that , because the least efective way of evidence is victims testemony, using science and investigative work.

    Were he falters and assuming that he is right that all police officers are a tool of repression of the lower castes, do you truly belive that his proposed ideia would work ?I mean no Lawers ?People representing themselfs?

    As much as I loved reading the article , I don't think that destroying "police " would do it , but hey I am biased.

    Enviado do meu SM-G900F através do Tapatalk
    Thanks for at least reading and engaging with the article.

    I don’t disagree that you need some body of professionals capable of investigating crimes to which there is no clear evidence of guilt. But that’s not what the average patrol officer does. The average patrol officer, at least in my neck of the woods, has three basic roles: patrol the city interrogating poor people on suspicion of minor property and status crimes, manage the aftermath of traffic accidents and violent crimes (which the police don’t prevent), and be available for crowd control when people get upset at government policy and protest.

    The first scenario is just straight bullshit, and offensive to my sense of justice, particularly given the issue racial bias and the tendency of police officers to kill people for no good reason (at least in America).

    The second scenario is sensible, but you don’t need a huge paramilitary police force to accomplish it.

    The third scenario is just depressing, and is the root of the whole “class betrayal” issue.

    As for people representing “themselves” in bringing complaints against other citizens for criminal activity, that implies the presence of legal counsel and courts, especially given that lawyers predated the police by several thousand years.
    Well I never did exercises with fellow US police officers, when I went there (Miami ) they were always and seem very professional to me and kind , but that is my anedotal exemple.

    Has for a patrolling officer does in the US I reckon it is the same in most western country's, first and foremost is to engage with the people doing "proximity policing" that goes for everything, going to check on old people,helping out tourists,cheking permits of coffee and establishments, dealing with sound complaints from neighbours etc.

    Has for crimes the patroller usually deals with every spectrum of violence you would imagine and yes they do not (in most cases) investigate the crime , but do the most important thing after the crime, preserving the crime scene so that scientific police and detectives come and do their work, imagine arriving in a homicide scene and most of the evidences are compromised because "normal" people don't usually thing pragmatically about those things.

    And even after all these things , you have to get to the police squadron and loose 1+ hour of your time writing reports most of that on of duty hours.

    I am not trying to absolve the officer's that do shit , because they deserve has everyone a fair trial and just sentence , I just find that most people in the US and even in EU doesn't compreend the amount of shit police officers goes true .

    Now I will grant you one thing , a small percentage of my comrades are fucking testosterone fucking dumbos , but to me that is a mirror of the society we are in, and a complete failure of the trials of the departments to recognise some paterns of behaviour.

    Sorry for the rant , I do think police around the world do need reforms but I also think people are in for a rude awakening if they think extinguishing police will bring a more fair and pleasant life , at least in the world we currently live in.

    Enviado do meu SM-G900F através do Tapatalk
    Several of my family were/are in the UK Police, and this is broadly in line with that. I can't imagine ever convincing the Polie haters on here (i recall Smuggo had an almost violent reaction to them....) but in my own experience the majority are hardworking and good people that do a really shitty job.

    Then there is the minority who are proper arseholes sadly.

  6. #32786
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pesadelo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pesadelo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    It is controversial and it's downright offensive. Stop saying it.
    He's linked a lengthy essay with sources and cited further and explained his position and I can definitely see how such a point could be made. Nice counter there, Mr serious internet debate.
    Just so you guys know I am military police in my home country , so after saying this and after reading that essay .

    I'm neither offended or think it is controversial that the police in those particular cities was founded with the point to control the poor/low class citizens.

    What I think it is a bit weird (I am not a history major) is the assumption that all police forces were made in that way , and even if they were , that they still retain that same ethos today.

    One example is when he says that the police in the US/England was not to investigate the crimes because prior crimes were resolved between the defendent and the acussed , why stop in those two exemples and make the leap to the roman/greeks police that were made to do that ?

    Even better the French Police Judiciaire was formed precisely for that , because the least efective way of evidence is victims testemony, using science and investigative work.

    Were he falters and assuming that he is right that all police officers are a tool of repression of the lower castes, do you truly belive that his proposed ideia would work ?I mean no Lawers ?People representing themselfs?

    As much as I loved reading the article , I don't think that destroying "police " would do it , but hey I am biased.

    Enviado do meu SM-G900F através do Tapatalk
    Thanks for at least reading and engaging with the article.

    I don’t disagree that you need some body of professionals capable of investigating crimes to which there is no clear evidence of guilt. But that’s not what the average patrol officer does. The average patrol officer, at least in my neck of the woods, has three basic roles: patrol the city interrogating poor people on suspicion of minor property and status crimes, manage the aftermath of traffic accidents and violent crimes (which the police don’t prevent), and be available for crowd control when people get upset at government policy and protest.

    The first scenario is just straight bullshit, and offensive to my sense of justice, particularly given the issue racial bias and the tendency of police officers to kill people for no good reason (at least in America).

    The second scenario is sensible, but you don’t need a huge paramilitary police force to accomplish it.

    The third scenario is just depressing, and is the root of the whole “class betrayal” issue.

    As for people representing “themselves” in bringing complaints against other citizens for criminal activity, that implies the presence of legal counsel and courts, especially given that lawyers predated the police by several thousand years.
    Well I never did exercises with fellow US police officers, when I went there (Miami ) they were always and seem very professional to me and kind , but that is my anedotal exemple.

    Has for a patrolling officer does in the US I reckon it is the same in most western country's, first and foremost is to engage with the people doing "proximity policing" that goes for everything, going to check on old people,helping out tourists,cheking permits of coffee and establishments, dealing with sound complaints from neighbours etc.

    Has for crimes the patroller usually deals with every spectrum of violence you would imagine and yes they do not (in most cases) investigate the crime , but do the most important thing after the crime, preserving the crime scene so that scientific police and detectives come and do their work, imagine arriving in a homicide scene and most of the evidences are compromised because "normal" people don't usually thing pragmatically about those things.

    And even after all these things , you have to get to the police squadron and loose 1+ hour of your time writing reports most of that on of duty hours.

    I am not trying to absolve the officer's that do shit , because they deserve has everyone a fair trial and just sentence , I just find that most people in the US and even in EU doesn't compreend the amount of shit police officers goes true .

    Now I will grant you one thing , a small percentage of my comrades are fucking testosterone fucking dumbos , but to me that is a mirror of the society we are in, and a complete failure of the trials of the departments to recognise some paterns of behaviour.

    Sorry for the rant , I do think police around the world do need reforms but I also think people are in for a rude awakening if they think extinguishing police will bring a more fair and pleasant life , at least in the world we currently live in.

    Enviado do meu SM-G900F através do Tapatalk
    this is a p good and educational post, rep

  7. #32787

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    Looks like we are heading into a Tory leadership election because they haven't done enough to fuck up the whole Brexit process already

  8. #32788

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    Quote Originally Posted by Siv View Post
    Looks like we are heading into a Tory leadership election because they haven't done enough to fuck up the whole Brexit process already
    The ERG (Rees-Mogg's lot) have been talking about deposing May, but are yet to unite behind a single challenger.

  9. #32789

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Siv View Post
    Looks like we are heading into a Tory leadership election because they haven't done enough to fuck up the whole Brexit process already
    The ERG (Rees-Mogg's lot) have been talking about deposing May, but are yet to unite behind a single challenger.
    I don't think it'll happen. They dont have a candidate they can be sure will win (or even stand a particularly good chance) and it'd be suicidal to do it right now.
    Mind you, this does presuppose some kind of rationality and common sense and its the ERG we're talking about so who the fuck knows.

  10. #32790

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    This would be the ERG who yesterday had a report published claiming that no deal was in fact the best deal and would truly reinvigorate the UK economy with falling prices and climbing wages almost overnight?

    There is not much sanity there.

  11. #32791
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    I think there is sanity there. I would say that UK economy is shorted to its hilt (or in other ways wagered against) and that they expect to profit hundreds of billions once it tanks after a no deal Brexit.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

  12. #32792

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    Quote Originally Posted by dzajic View Post
    I think there is sanity there. I would say that UK economy is shorted to its hilt (or in other ways wagered against) and that they expect to profit hundreds of billions once it tanks after a no deal Brexit.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
    That is so depressing that I actually think you're right.

  13. #32793

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    This would be the ERG who yesterday had a report published claiming that no deal was in fact the best deal and would truly reinvigorate the UK economy with falling prices and climbing wages almost overnight?

    There is not much sanity there.
    There's lots of sanity there.

    It's just that they're all malicious little tossmuppets who stand to make a fortune from Brexit. And the harder the Brexit, the more they'll make.

  14. #32794
    SteeleResolve's Avatar
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    "Come get your Euros! Shiny cheap Euros, get 'em whilst you can"

  15. #32795
    Phrixus Zephyr's Avatar
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    Won't euros also take a hit with the UK leaving? Wouldn't the better bet be the US Dollar vs the pound?

    Sent from my H8324 using Tapatalk

  16. #32796

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phrixus Zephyr View Post
    Won't euros also take a hit with the UK leaving? Wouldn't the better bet be the US Dollar vs the pound?

    Sent from my H8324 using Tapatalk
    Yeah, dollar should do very nicely i think.

  17. #32797
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrixus Zephyr View Post
    Won't euros also take a hit with the UK leaving? Wouldn't the better bet be the US Dollar vs the pound?

    Sent from my H8324 using Tapatalk
    Yeah, dollar should do very nicely i think.
    Yeah.

  18. #32798

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    With the tight deadline kicking May out would be as good as agreeing on the no deal brexit. (I'm quite skeptical that even without turmoil on the uk side a deal can be reached)

  19. #32799
    Liare's Avatar
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    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  20. #32800

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Clearly those areas just need more convincing to pull themselves up by their bootstraps!

    Disgusting.

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