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Thread: (UK EURO WAFFLE) Limey Civil War

  1. #29881
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Corbyn is a wanker but everyone else is too, don't worry about it

  2. #29882
    Keckers's Avatar
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    He's less of a wanker than Murdoch, Dacre etc
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  3. #29883
    tulip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Some facts for you...

    Anti-Semitism exists in the Labour Party.

    Anti-Semitism existed in the Labour Party before Corbyn took over.

    Surveys suggest that anti-Semitism is more prevalent in other parties.

    Labour's NEC, which until recently was led by someone who's anti-Corbyn, is in charge of discipline.

    Labour's leader has no power to suspend or expel party members.
    And Hitler was a Zionist. We're more than familiar with your "facts", little cultist, but what have any of them got to do with any of the things I've said?
    Seems a little harsh Elmicker? As for the scorn you show for his "facts", please don't discourage people from making the effort to actually substantiate.

    Obviously it would be disingenuous to imply that Hitler was really a Zionist it was just an easy/early way to get rid of some Jews. But the statement that he once supported Zionism is a little closer to actual truth, though not actually sincere unless you're hopelessly naive.

    For a figure in politics to shoot his mouth off on the matter could simply be a mistake, but to then double down instead of retracting suggests he cares more about his tenuous claim to technical accuracy than to the damage it would cause to his party's or his own reputation implies he has some sort of ideological skin in the game or just too proud to apologise. Either makes him a liability politically so good fucking riddance, as for "what about everyone else they're all worse" attitudes in Labour, just imagine how much legitimacy it would have lent such claims about other parties if they had first cleaned their own house quickly and effectively.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarminic View Post
    Just for the record, "sending a needy text" is never the right answer.

  4. #29884

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    Quote Originally Posted by tulip View Post
    Seems a little harsh Elmicker? As for the scorn you show for his "facts", please don't discourage people from making the effort to actually substantiate.
    He't not substantiating anything. Rodj has exactly three positions:

    1) What about the tories
    2) Well they're just blairites anyway
    3) It's a right wing media conspiracy

    These "facts" (which are, technically, facts) have nothing to do with the actual context of the story and are him just finding a new way to express the same point again. After all, even a modicum of critical thought would result in him coming to the conclusion that maybe Big JC isn't his Lord and Saviour and maybe his beloved anti-racist party does actually have a problem with Jews.

    For a figure in politics to shoot his mouth off on the matter could simply be a mistake, but to then double down instead of retracting...
    You know, if he'd only doubled down I think we'd have long since forgotten about this. This isn't the first time Ken has done this. He does love to link the Nazis and the Jews. But we tend to eventually forgive or at least forget when he shuts up about it. This saga has been going on for years, and as a whole it illustrates the exact problems the Labour leadership has failed to tackle, because a lot of them are with the self same cult heroes in the leadership.

    Let's go back to where this all began. With Naz Shah. She's from Bradford. That's important to know because if you know Bradford politics what she was found out to have said won't surprise you - it's a hellhole of racist identity politics, courtesy of George "Free Palestine" Galloway. She posted, prior to becoming an MP, some pretty offensive stuff. You know, destroy israel, "the jews are rallying", don't they all like money, they're in control of the media etc. etc. The usual stuff.

    This was found out, she apologised, was suspended and disappeared for two years. She's still in the party and has a career. Why? Well because according to the party leadership...

    “We’re not suggesting she’s anti-Semitic,” said the spokesman. “We’re saying she’s made remarks that she doesn’t agree with.”
    Which is really odd because even Naz Shah herself admitted her posts were wildly anti-Semitic. Hey ho. Crossed wires. We can all move on right?

    Not while Uncle Ken is around! He leaps to Shah's defence (after she has apologised and repented for her admitted racism) and somehow utters these words

    “Let’s remember when Hitler won his election in 1932, his policy then was that Jews should be moved to Israel. He was supporting Zionism – this before he went mad and ended up killing six million Jews.”
    Er, what? Not only is this only "factually correct" for the weakest definitions of "correct" or "factual", this is a man in the Labour leadership's inner circle not only rejecting Shah's own admission (and the obvious reality) that her comments about "relocating" Israel were wildly offensive, but that they were OK because... Hitler said something similar first, before he "went mad"?

    Are you lost? Because everyone else was. Suddenly Labour is dragged, kicking and screaming back into an Antisemitism row because Uncle Ken Has Done It Again. It's about as clear a case as you're going to find of someone bringing the party into disrepute. But if you pay attention to people like Rodj it's a grand right wing conspiracy to smear their Lord and Saviour JC and we should overlook everything Ken has done because, after all, he's good ol' Uncle Ken and doesn't really mean anything by it.

    And so the Leadership did nothing. A slap on the wrist. So he did it again. And again. And Again. And now he's quit, so that he can say it again. And again.

    What does the leadership give him? A regretful farewell and best wishes.

    It's spineless tolerance. Utter cowardice. It is not a smear when the accusations are correct.

  5. #29885

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    If the left wing could attack the Tories with half the anger and energy they reserve for fighting themselves they could already be forcing a general election.

  6. #29886
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    Remember when Ken Livingstone quit the Labour Party, stomped all over the Labour Party's candidate for Mayor, was re-admitted to the Labour Party, and then accused a Jewish journalist of acting like a concentration camp guard, and refused calls to apologise from his party leader?

    Why was he not removed then? Is it because the leadership then was spineless, tolerant of those who brought them power, and cowardice? Or?

    He did it again in 2012 by the way - bit of a stretch to blame Corbyn for that one, too.
    Last edited by Zekk Pacus; May 22 2018 at 08:10:04 PM.
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  7. #29887

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    Remember when Ken Livingstone quit the Labour Party, stomped all over the Labour Party's candidate for Mayor, was re-admitted to the Labour Party, and then accused a Jewish journalist of acting like a concentration camp guard, and refused calls to apologise from his party leader?

    Why was he not removed then? Is it because the leadership then was spineless, tolerant of those who brought them power, and cowardice? Or?
    Nah that's alright cos the cunt worked for the daily mail

    But more seriously, yes. It even played out in the same way. Stupid off hand comment followed by doubling down with malicious personal attacks followed by a lengthy refusal to apologise and belittling the whole thing as a "huge fuss over nothing"

    Though in that case it almost certainly was a right wing conspiracy because he was ambushed with a tape recorder outside a party.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    He did it again in 2012 by the way - bit of a stretch to blame Corbyn for that one, too.
    And at least in 1982, 1984, 1984 again, 2000 and 2012. He should have been kicked out long ago.
    Last edited by elmicker; May 22 2018 at 08:13:07 PM.

  8. #29888
    smuggo
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    Just saying that 'even I' think that the Labour party and 'the left' (at least in the uk) have an issue with anti-semitism.

    Last edited by smuggo; May 22 2018 at 09:02:26 PM.

  9. #29889

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Some facts for you...

    Anti-Semitism exists in the Labour Party.

    Anti-Semitism existed in the Labour Party before Corbyn took over.

    Surveys suggest that anti-Semitism is more prevalent in other parties.

    Labour's NEC, which until recently was led by someone who's anti-Corbyn, is in charge of discipline.

    Labour's leader has no power to suspend or expel party members.
    And Hitler was a Zionist. We're more than familiar with your "facts", little cultist, but what have any of them got to do with any of the things I've said?
    Stay classy, elmicker.

  10. #29890
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    Just saying that 'even I' think that the Labour party and 'the left' (at least in the uk) have an issue with anti-semitism.

    More so than the tories and right wing groups?
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  11. #29891
    NoirAvlaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    Just saying that 'even I' think that the Labour party and 'the left' (at least in the uk) have an issue with anti-semitism.

    More so than the tories and right wing groups?
    Yeah, the right wing don't see it as a problem.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

  12. #29892
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutsc...a-1209076.html

    In 2017 Germany granted German citizenship to 7493 British citizens. That's a 162% increase to 2016 which saw 2865 British citizens gain German citizenship. In 2015 only 622 British citizens wanted to become German citizens.
    Of those 7493 citizens, 9% did not live in Germany but either lost their German citizenship during Nazi rule or are descendants of such citizens.
    The average age of those naturalized is 52.8 years, which is older than any other group (EU nationals: 40.9, all groups: 34.8).

    Last year 112,200 people got the German citizenship, the biggest group (about 14k) were Turkish citizens, then the British, Poles, Italians and Romanians.

    Tapapapatalk
    nevar forget

  13. #29893

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutsc...a-1209076.html

    In 2017 Germany granted German citizenship to 7493 British citizens. That's a 162% increase to 2016 which saw 2865 British citizens gain German citizenship. In 2015 only 622 British citizens wanted to become German citizens.
    Of those 7493 citizens, 9% did not live in Germany but either lost their German citizenship during Nazi rule or are descendants of such citizens.
    The average age of those naturalized is 52.8 years, which is older than any other group (EU nationals: 40.9, all groups: 34.8).

    Last year 112,200 people got the German citizenship, the biggest group (about 14k) were Turkish citizens, then the British, Poles, Italians and Romanians.

    Tapapapatalk
    Fun fact: Nigel Farage's children qualify for German passports.

  14. #29894
    rufuske's Avatar
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    Yup, he got them for his children few days after he 'won' referendum.

  15. #29895
    Sp4m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutsc...a-1209076.html

    In 2017 Germany granted German citizenship to 7493 British citizens. That's a 162% increase to 2016 which saw 2865 British citizens gain German citizenship. In 2015 only 622 British citizens wanted to become German citizens.
    Of those 7493 citizens, 9% did not live in Germany but either lost their German citizenship during Nazi rule or are descendants of such citizens.
    The average age of those naturalized is 52.8 years, which is older than any other group (EU nationals: 40.9, all groups: 34.8).

    Last year 112,200 people got the German citizenship, the biggest group (about 14k) were Turkish citizens, then the British, Poles, Italians and Romanians.

    Tapapapatalk
    In 2017 Germany granted German citizenship to 7493 British citizens. That's a 162% increase to 2016 which saw 2865 British citizens gain German citizenship. In 2015 only 622 British citizens wanted to become German citizens.

    7493 is what % of 65640000 = 0.01%

    1. Main points
    In the year ending September 2017 net migration was at a similar level to early 2014 with 244,000 more people coming to the UK than leaving, so still adding to the UK population. This follows record levels of net migration during 2015 and early 2016.

    244000 is what % of 65640000 = 0.37%




    Interestingly the average age statistic you mentioned seems to indicate that high level directors and businessmen are just looking for a way to secure any EU travel or retirement plans.

    I could be (And have often been) wrong

  16. #29896

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sp4m View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutsc...a-1209076.html

    In 2017 Germany granted German citizenship to 7493 British citizens. That's a 162% increase to 2016 which saw 2865 British citizens gain German citizenship. In 2015 only 622 British citizens wanted to become German citizens.
    Of those 7493 citizens, 9% did not live in Germany but either lost their German citizenship during Nazi rule or are descendants of such citizens.
    The average age of those naturalized is 52.8 years, which is older than any other group (EU nationals: 40.9, all groups: 34.8).

    Last year 112,200 people got the German citizenship, the biggest group (about 14k) were Turkish citizens, then the British, Poles, Italians and Romanians.

    Tapapapatalk
    In 2017 Germany granted German citizenship to 7493 British citizens. That's a 162% increase to 2016 which saw 2865 British citizens gain German citizenship. In 2015 only 622 British citizens wanted to become German citizens.

    7493 is what % of 65640000 = 0.01%

    1. Main points
    In the year ending September 2017 net migration was at a similar level to early 2014 with 244,000 more people coming to the UK than leaving, so still adding to the UK population. This follows record levels of net migration during 2015 and early 2016.

    244000 is what % of 65640000 = 0.37%




    Interestingly the average age statistic you mentioned seems to indicate that high level directors and businessmen are just looking for a way to secure any EU travel or retirement plans.

    I could be (And have often been) wrong
    So what exactly are you trying to show here beyond a catastrophic fail at statistics and interpreting them?

  17. #29897

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    On the subject of people applying for passports, the former Mayor of Ipswich has been denied one...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...40-years-in-uk

  18. #29898
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    On the subject of people applying for passports, the former Mayor of Ipswich has been denied one...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...40-years-in-uk
    Amazing


    

  19. #29899
    Sp4m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sp4m View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutsc...a-1209076.html

    In 2017 Germany granted German citizenship to 7493 British citizens. That's a 162% increase to 2016 which saw 2865 British citizens gain German citizenship. In 2015 only 622 British citizens wanted to become German citizens.
    Of those 7493 citizens, 9% did not live in Germany but either lost their German citizenship during Nazi rule or are descendants of such citizens.
    The average age of those naturalized is 52.8 years, which is older than any other group (EU nationals: 40.9, all groups: 34.8).

    Last year 112,200 people got the German citizenship, the biggest group (about 14k) were Turkish citizens, then the British, Poles, Italians and Romanians.

    Tapapapatalk
    In 2017 Germany granted German citizenship to 7493 British citizens. That's a 162% increase to 2016 which saw 2865 British citizens gain German citizenship. In 2015 only 622 British citizens wanted to become German citizens.

    7493 is what % of 65640000 = 0.01%

    1. Main points
    In the year ending September 2017 net migration was at a similar level to early 2014 with 244,000 more people coming to the UK than leaving, so still adding to the UK population. This follows record levels of net migration during 2015 and early 2016.

    244000 is what % of 65640000 = 0.37%




    Interestingly the average age statistic you mentioned seems to indicate that high level directors and businessmen are just looking for a way to secure any EU travel or retirement plans.

    I could be (And have often been) wrong
    So what exactly are you trying to show here beyond a catastrophic fail at statistics and interpreting them?
    a) its not a very big number in the grand scheme of things.

    b) by the grand scheme of things i mean the uk net migration

    c) whilst german citizenship requests have risen by 162% of not very much, migration levels have remained the same (despite brexit?)

    d) it aint young people (who apparently care a lot about being in the EU according to brexit voting ages) that are applying. Its smart old fucks who just want options.


    OK now or want me to dumb it down a bit more for you?

  20. #29900

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sp4m View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sp4m View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutsc...a-1209076.html

    In 2017 Germany granted German citizenship to 7493 British citizens. That's a 162% increase to 2016 which saw 2865 British citizens gain German citizenship. In 2015 only 622 British citizens wanted to become German citizens.
    Of those 7493 citizens, 9% did not live in Germany but either lost their German citizenship during Nazi rule or are descendants of such citizens.
    The average age of those naturalized is 52.8 years, which is older than any other group (EU nationals: 40.9, all groups: 34.8).

    Last year 112,200 people got the German citizenship, the biggest group (about 14k) were Turkish citizens, then the British, Poles, Italians and Romanians.

    Tapapapatalk
    In 2017 Germany granted German citizenship to 7493 British citizens. That's a 162% increase to 2016 which saw 2865 British citizens gain German citizenship. In 2015 only 622 British citizens wanted to become German citizens.

    7493 is what % of 65640000 = 0.01%

    1. Main points
    In the year ending September 2017 net migration was at a similar level to early 2014 with 244,000 more people coming to the UK than leaving, so still adding to the UK population. This follows record levels of net migration during 2015 and early 2016.

    244000 is what % of 65640000 = 0.37%




    Interestingly the average age statistic you mentioned seems to indicate that high level directors and businessmen are just looking for a way to secure any EU travel or retirement plans.

    I could be (And have often been) wrong
    So what exactly are you trying to show here beyond a catastrophic fail at statistics and interpreting them?
    a) its not a very big number in the grand scheme of things.

    b) by the grand scheme of things i mean the uk net migration

    c) whilst german citizenship requests have risen by 162% of not very much, migration levels have remained the same (despite brexit?)

    d) it aint young people (who apparently care a lot about being in the EU according to brexit voting ages) that are applying. Its smart old fucks who just want options.


    OK now or want me to dumb it down a bit more for you?
    Here's something from the ONS website:

    "In the year ending September 2017 net migration was at a similar level to early 2014 with 244,000 more people coming to the UK than leaving, so still adding to the UK population. This follows record levels of net migration during 2015 and early 2016."



    So net immigration peaked in the first half of 2016 and has declined since then. I wonder what might have happened in mid-2016 to put people off from coming here...
    Last edited by Rodj Blake; May 23 2018 at 01:32:24 PM.

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