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Thread: At and other formats need a POV cam.

  1. #1
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    At and other formats need a POV cam.

    Lets face it, the NT, the AT and co is fucking boring to watch. Its 3 super tiny bars going down and up, its interesting if you are deep in the meta but otherwise its just carries by commentators.


    A simple fix some other tournaments use are the following 2;

    Instead of commentators (or alongside) have someone on the TS/mumble/vent of the teams so people can listen in and have a stream of the POV of people in the actual match.

    Its pretty hard on the editors but that would make the matches actually interesting to watch.


    Take some of the great videos of eve, garmons hyperion/vindicator vs whatever, basicely the Mitternacht scene ( song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKOspnXvILU), from outside, no matter the commentators this would be boring as fuck to watch, in POV its really interesting and exciting.
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  2. #2

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    Until CCP implements a way for players to remotely view what's happening on a grid in real time using their own client, I think the commentary is necessary for most people to be able to follow what's going on.

    Also, I doubt CCP management would bother green lighting the AT if it wasn't presented in a way that is at least somewhat understandable to the average EVE player, which sadly to say means tons of people who are not well versed in small gang PvP concepts.

  3. #3

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    Most teams also wouldn't want to broadcast their comms and POV anyway.

  4. #4
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Quaan View Post
    Most teams also wouldn't want to broadcast their comms and POV anyway.
    Yeah, but that wouldnt matter. CCP could just make it a requirement to compete.
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  5. #5
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    Many things are possible, but the nr 1 problem will always be that while many devs get super excited about tournaments, the company as an entity simply can't spare many resources for it.
    Also there's the curse of AT :P Every dev that gets involved with the AT inevitability leaves for RIOT.

  6. #6
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    But can we agree on the point that a "outside view" in eve is (for non super big battles) pretty boring and tells you very little, while the "inside" pov usually is much more interesting. Could make it easy and do it via skype share screen or do it via OBS and twitch itself or make some app for it, but if there was a editor in the back, with the ability to swap between, lets say the primary of both sides, the logi and 1 or 2 big ships, watching the whole thing would actually be exciting.
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    Yeah I've been saying that for ages. None of those tournaments are interesting by themselves unless you personally know the people and groups competing. A different POV would be a great start to get immersed.

  8. #8
    William Voxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Quaan View Post
    Most teams also wouldn't want to broadcast their comms and POV anyway.
    Yeah, but that wouldnt matter. CCP could just make it a requirement to compete.
    If that was a requirement I imagine that many of the big name teams simply wouldn't sign for it.

  9. #9
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Voxx View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Quaan View Post
    Most teams also wouldn't want to broadcast their comms and POV anyway.
    Yeah, but that wouldnt matter. CCP could just make it a requirement to compete.
    If that was a requirement I imagine that many of the big name teams simply wouldn't sign for it.
    Ehhh, why? The reason they dont want their comms and piloting shared is only due to them wanting an edge in the AT itself, not signing up would totally defeat that purpose. The reason for OPsec is the AT, if there is no AT they dont care.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  10. #10
    William Voxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by William Voxx View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Quaan View Post
    Most teams also wouldn't want to broadcast their comms and POV anyway.
    Yeah, but that wouldnt matter. CCP could just make it a requirement to compete.
    If that was a requirement I imagine that many of the big name teams simply wouldn't sign for it.
    Ehhh, why? The reason they dont want their comms and piloting shared is only due to them wanting an edge in the AT itself, not signing up would totally defeat that purpose. The reason for OPsec is the AT, if there is no AT they dont care.
    Kadesh explained the extent that both Camel Warlords, and the Hydra teams (in the past) went to keep their training OPSEC. Practicing in wormholes, revealing potential exploits to CCP ect. If their comms would have to be broadcast in order to compete some of what is said could be used by other teams PL, Exodus, VoC. Even something somewhat innocuous could give a hint to their set-ups, strategies and such. I imagine many teams being forced to broadcast their comms openly would be seen as just not worth effort, after the effort these teams go to keep their practices and set-ups a secret.
    Last edited by William Voxx; February 15 2016 at 03:01:55 AM.

  11. #11
    Eshnala's Avatar
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    Im pretty certain, that if CCP would enforce something like a open broadcast of the coms, the try-hard teams would just practice a certain way of communicating via code words so nobody understands what they are saying anyways.

  12. #12
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    The coms are secondary anyways, the POV change is the main thing to consider.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  13. #13
    roigon's Avatar
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    "Codewords".

    Thingy apply the thingy to the thingy. Thingies move to the thingy and thingy that thingy. Overheat the thingies. Oh no I've got thingied. Brb guys, pizza guy just brought my thingy.

    Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

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    Mikokoel's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure Kadesh would have just forced us all to learn russian.

    Hail the Russian Opsec Overlords!

    Leokokim: Mining Industry Exile Foundation [MIEF] | Warlords of the Deep [2LGIT]
    Mikokoel, Arthie Madullier (PvP): Know your Role [K-Y-R] | League of Unaligned Master Pilots [LUMPY]

  15. #15
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eshnala View Post
    Im pretty certain, that if CCP would enforce something like a open broadcast of the coms, the try-hard teams would just practice a certain way of communicating via code words so nobody understands what they are saying anyways.
    No different to line out calls in rugby or short corner routine calls in hockey then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eshnala View Post
    Im pretty certain, that if CCP would enforce something like a open broadcast of the coms, the try-hard teams would just practice a certain way of communicating via code words so nobody understands what they are saying anyways.
    Or even stream one set of comms that is simply disguised generic commentary in itself and have the actual team on a different server.

  17. #17
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Quaan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Eshnala View Post
    Im pretty certain, that if CCP would enforce something like a open broadcast of the coms, the try-hard teams would just practice a certain way of communicating via code words so nobody understands what they are saying anyways.
    Or even stream one set of comms that is simply disguised generic commentary in itself and have the actual team on a different server.
    I really dont think people would ever do that, the chance of getting DQed is way to high, not to mention that that much isnt actually shared in comms, specific commands might be given some code names to mask them but that would make listening in just much more fun, "jam the logi so we can heat damage into the small stuff while trying to neut out links" sounds somewhat boring, "execute Operation 12" sound much cooler.


    But anyways, its more about the current camera being extremely lame. A inside pov could make that a lot better.
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    I think there are ways of making it easier to understand what is happening (especially in non-tinker matches) without showing individual players' POVs. A big one would be to improve the little status displays at the bottom of the display, so viewers could differentiate between attempted and successful jams, and see ships' capacitor levels to gauge the effect of neuting. Another thing would be to do something to add more clarity and character to zoomed-out views of the battlefield so viewers could get a sense of the teams' positioning and maneuvering without it just being a boring display of 12 angry blue boxes moving around 12 angry red boxes. One thing might be to use more varied colour schemes - for example, you could have logistics ships or ewar ships displayed with a different symbol or shade of blue/red compared to the rest of the team.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Quaan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Eshnala View Post
    Im pretty certain, that if CCP would enforce something like a open broadcast of the coms, the try-hard teams would just practice a certain way of communicating via code words so nobody understands what they are saying anyways.
    Or even stream one set of comms that is simply disguised generic commentary in itself and have the actual team on a different server.
    I really dont think people would ever do that, the chance of getting DQed is way to high
    Some people will go to great lengths securing themselves any advantage in this game.

    I agree that the current broadcast is severely limited in what you can show the spectators, but that's more a trait of EVE videos in general. Even well edited pvp videos are confusing if you don't have any insight to what is going on behind the things you are shown. I don't think hurting the competitive aspect by having everyone spill their beans is the way to go here, though.

  20. #20
    Shaftoes's Avatar
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    We thought about this for eve_nt back in September, asked a few teams about it and they pretty much said no. The pov camera is simply not feasible due to the fact you will have to mix like 14-24 incoming streams on the fly during a match.

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