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Thread: Pestilence or: How I Learned to Worry Constantly and Live with COVID

  1. #6101
    GeromeDoutrande's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GeromeDoutrande View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GeromeDoutrande View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GeromeDoutrande View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GeromeDoutrande View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tulip View Post
    The difference is the EU are pointing at the best effort clause on their contract but AZ are pointing at the best effort clause in all the other contracts they signed first.

    It's not like AZ were hard up for cash, credit lines or customers when the EU signed up to join in.
    Is that a thing in contracts though, best efforts signed earlier being more important than best efforts signed later (I honestly don't know)?

    Here is how I imagine this: Let's say that for January, the UK and the EU each have 10 units of vaccine scheduled for delivery, because AZ had planned to have 20 production capacity for January delivery. Now AZ turns out to have only 12 unit capacity for January. In a "first agreed best effort beats all" scenario, the UK gets 10 units of vaccine and the EU gets 2. In an "equitable best effort" scenario, both the UK and the EU get 6.
    UK gets 80% of the uk (final) manufactured product because that's the deal we signed, and no crying about sourcing the components from the EU for final UK assembly. MADE IT BRITAAAAAAAAYN MAYTES. LEGIT


    Interestingly, why didnt germany have this sort of deal with their university developed vaccine?
    Do you have a link for what the UK contract is supposed to be like?

    If you mean Biontech, that's a private company not a university. The EU countries agreed to joint procurement in part to avoid vaccine contract wars between the 27 member states and a repeat of the country-by-country PPE wars and national export restrictions for vaccines, i.e. to avoid what you are suggesting. Germany didn't put Germany first in this in part because of the outsized scrutiny that rains down on it every time it does anything like that.

    The USA has gone full vaccine nationalism and exports no doses of vaccine at all. Canada gets supplied from EU facilities.
    So what youre saying is Germany didnt use their universities to develop a not for profit vaccine like the UK did?
    Probably don't click on this link if you would like me to have said that

    https://www.vfa.de/de/englische-inha...ainst-covid-19
    Wel lthen, just use them vaccines instead of ours. Easy solution!
    No problemo, let me just redirect some of the necessary chemicals to the right place over here instead of sending them to, eh, let me check, Astra something or other

    vaccine nationalism status: achieved
    Go for it. You can stop the whining about not getting your vaccines then, and we can get back to our whining about being pirate island
    win win

  2. #6102
    Duckslayer's Avatar
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    We don't wantyour economic prosperity and cultural exchange. We don't want your workers, your finance or your research. We don't want your currency, your stupid fucking plugs or your shit languages

    All we need is our ethereal sense of taking back control and bulldog spirit. And some vaccines. And the food imports. And access to our beach colonies on the English Spanish coast.


    checks notes and a string of increasingly bad choice relationships with eastern europeans.



    N1 btw for enshrining brexiteers' sense of moral righteousness with the whole NORN IRON border threat.

  3. #6103

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    According to the text revealed by Der Spiegel, the bill for 300 million vaccines against covid-19 AstraZeneca / Oxford is 870 million euros. This amount includes all direct and indirect costs and expenses of the British laboratory for the production and distribution of the vaccine. These include, for example, labor costs, materials, the operation of installations and equipment, quality control, non-deductible indirect taxes or customs duties.

  4. #6104
    GeromeDoutrande's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    N1 btw for enshrining brexiteers' sense of moral righteousness with the whole NORN IRON border threat.
    That was real dumb but tbh otherwise they'd just make up some similar stuff anyway, so eh

  5. #6105
    Duckslayer's Avatar
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    Troubles 2: Electric plug boogaflu

  6. #6106
    GeromeDoutrande's Avatar
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    Don't take the EU vaccines! They've got no built-in fuses!

  7. #6107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    So AZ got greedy/incompetent and fucked up, Britain gov goes full moron (again) and tries to play the victim card?

      Spoiler:
    And our usual suspects like CC continue drooling in the corner.
    For once the British government hasn’t really done anything wrong. It’s pretty impressive watching some of the mental gymnastics here from the usual suspects.
    Simping for a corporation that screws over their contract partner isn't doing anything wrong?

    Talk about mental gymnastics.

  8. #6108
    Movember 2012 Stoffl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeromeDoutrande View Post
    Don't take the EU vaccines! They've got no built-in fuses!
    Won't someone think of the knitting needle weilding children!

  9. #6109
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    So AZ got greedy/incompetent and fucked up, Britain gov goes full moron (again) and tries to play the victim card?

      Spoiler:
    And our usual suspects like CC continue drooling in the corner.
    For once the British government hasn’t really done anything wrong. It’s pretty impressive watching some of the mental gymnastics here from the usual suspects.
    Simping for a corporation that screws over their contract partner isn't doing anything wrong?

    Talk about mental gymnastics.
    So you interpret the general silence Boris has adopted as ‘simping’.

    Like I said: mental gymnastics.

  10. #6110
    Duckslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    So AZ got greedy/incompetent and fucked up, Britain gov goes full moron (again) and tries to play the victim card?

      Spoiler:
    And our usual suspects like CC continue drooling in the corner.
    For once the British government hasn’t really done anything wrong. It’s pretty impressive watching some of the mental gymnastics here from the usual suspects.
    Simping for a corporation that screws over their contract partner isn't doing anything wrong?
    Literally no

  11. #6111
    Venec's Avatar
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    Except AZ isn't a EU corporation anymore and it isn't the EU's responsibility to shake the chain if it screws up. But, yeah whatever.

  12. #6112
    Duckslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Except AZ isn't a EU corporation anymore and it isn't the EU's responsibility to shake the chain if it screws up. But, yeah whatever.
    Tough fucking titties then. Get shaking the biontech chainm8
    With that in mind can i just point out the UK is doing far worse than most of the EU countries dealing with covid. We need our vaccine we developed and manufactured more than you. Stop being so selfish as per usual
    Last edited by Duckslayer; January 30 2021 at 12:41:33 PM.

  13. #6113
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    Except for:

    Quote Originally Posted by GeromeDoutrande View Post
    Two points:
    - EU also paid 400 mio EUR up front so also contributed to financing, just to even out the flavouring of the text
    - As per the Irish Times article I linked, nothing was produced in the UK in 2020
    - The EU contract specifies the plants involved in delivery (locations are blacked out)
    I'm sure this will contribute to friendly relations between EU and UK in the future mate.

  14. #6114
    Duckslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Except for:

    Quote Originally Posted by GeromeDoutrande View Post
    Two points:
    - EU also paid 400 mio EUR up front so also contributed to financing, just to even out the flavouring of the text
    - As per the Irish Times article I linked, nothing was produced in the UK in 2020
    - The EU contract specifies the plants involved in delivery (locations are blacked out)
    I'm sure this will contribute to friendly relations between EU and UK in the future mate.
    We dont want friendly relationships. Why the fuck do you think brexit happened, to bring us closer?


    Better nuke up bois we coming for you

  15. #6115

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    You forgot to say "oi didn't vo'e to leave the foockin' EU for em to come an' take me vaccine" while waving a St. George flag.

  16. #6116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post
    You forgot to say "oi didn't vo'e to leave the foockin' EU for em to come an' take me vaccine" while waving a St. George flag.
    nah i think i got that across. Didnt bother translating it though, they stole our language for free and never paid any of us who invented it

  17. #6117
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Except for:

    Quote Originally Posted by GeromeDoutrande View Post
    Two points:
    - EU also paid 400 mio EUR up front so also contributed to financing, just to even out the flavouring of the text
    - As per the Irish Times article I linked, nothing was produced in the UK in 2020
    - The EU contract specifies the plants involved in delivery (locations are blacked out)
    I'm sure this will contribute to friendly relations between EU and UK in the future mate.
    And I’m sure all EU citizens will be ecstatic with the Commission’s ponderous attitude to commercial contract negotiations

    Surely Ursula will be held accountable for her actions at the next election?

  18. #6118
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeromeDoutrande View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smegs View Post
    From what i can glean, removing the nationalistic bullshit, it looks like AZ got themselves into a problem by over-promising doses that it could not hope to provide unless best case production scenarios worked out perfectly (all factories and logistics hitting the ground running and no problems), which is dumb. AZ then didn't appear to inform the EU of the upcoming shortfall, due to inefficiencies in logistics and factory output, all the while covering the UK contract with stock from the EU (iirc the bits of the contracts which we can see don't state that this isn't allowed, so fair game). Realising AZ didn't have enough vaccine for the folks at home AND knowing AZ had used EU stock to cover UK shortfall, the EU spazzed out, making an utter arse of themselves.

    With the news outlets appearing to go pretty much full ham, AZ appears to be playing the UK and EU off against each other despite signing conflicting contractual obligations. AZ is initially at fault for promising so much and the EU is at fault for over-reacting to contractual mis-management.

    My opinion is that AZ should get a swift kick in the nuts for being greedy (a multinational pharma company being greedy .... who'd have thunk it?) and both the UK and the EU should sort the doses out sharpish, but with 'cunt-o-matic Johnson' (who would love to score points against the EU for anything) and Von Der Leyen at the respective helms, it might just be a shitty situation that leads to a further breakdown in trust between the states.
    Very good summary of what I think as well
    Are we SURE that AZ are shipping vaccines to the UK legally bound to the EU ?

    I mean that's quite a convenient way for the EU to cover the monumental fuckup in acquisition and formal acceptance that's created a shortfall in it's own right....

  19. #6119
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    EU pledges vaccine controls will not hit UK supplies
    Von der Leyen vows BioNTech/Pfizer orders from Belgium will not be disrupted during tense call with Johnson
    https://www.ft.com/content/93555276-...4-ca968e3622aa

    Ursula von der Leyen has promised Boris Johnson that future EU controls on vaccines will not disrupt contracted supplies of the Belgian-made BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine to Britain. The European Commission president, made the commitment to the prime minister in a tense Friday night call, which followed the Commission’s controversial plan — hastily abandoned — to impose emergency border controls on vaccines entering Northern Ireland from the EU. Ms von der Leyen tweeted that the talks with Mr Johnson had been “constructive”, adding: “We agreed on the principle that there should not be restrictions on the export of vaccines by companies where they are fulfilling contractual responsibilities.” Mr Johnson’s allies confirmed that this included the 40m doses that Pfizer is contracted to supply Britain from a plant in Belgium. The Commission did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

    The dropping of the implied threat to Pfizer exports and the abandonment of the proposal to include Northern Ireland in new export controls has calmed tension between London and Brussels. Mr Johnson has tried this week to avoid stoking tension and inflaming a vaccine war which he believes would harm both sides and hinder the global fight against Covid-19. “The call was fine, hopefully that’s the end of it,” said one ally of the prime minister. “We don’t plan to dwell on it.”

    But Arlene Foster, Northern Ireland’s first minister, on Saturday called on Mr Johnson to follow Brussels’ lead and override part of the Brexit agreement to ease the flow of goods between GB and NI. Article 16 of the Northern Ireland protocol has a “safeguard” clause to override the agreement, which is intended to maintain an open border on the island of Ireland. It includes checks on GB/NI trade. The European Commission said it would invoke Article 16 to justify its initial plan to impose vaccine export controls on Northern Ireland, even though the region remains part of the EU’s single market for goods. It cited the risk of “serious societal difficulties” in the EU if the bloc was unable to deploy enough vaccines to its own citizens.

    Julian Smith, former Northern Ireland secretary,*said the EU had “pulled the emergency cord” without following the proper processes that had been agreed over years of negotiations. He told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme the move came “without anywhere near the level of understanding of the Good Friday Agreement, of the sensitivities of the situation in Northern Ireland”. “It was an almost Trumpian act — I’m very pleased that they’ve changed their minds,” he said. The Commission has since republished its vaccine shipment control measures with the Article 16 proposals stripped out.

    The export restrictions have drawn criticism from business groups including the International Chamber of Commerce, which has warned they could lead to retaliation from other countries and have a devastating impact on global vaccine supplies. It has also emerged that Belgium, a key location for vaccine production in the EU, has notified the Commission of a draft health law that would give it new powers to curb medicines exports. The proposed legislation would allow Belgian authorities to restrict or ban the shipment of critical medicinal products and active ingredients, in case of shortages or potential shortages. A spokesperson for Frank Vandenbroucke, Belgium’s health minister, said the notification to the commission was not related to vaccine exports or uncertainties about jab supplies. The draft law aimed to set up a “future legislative framework for managing pandemics more efficiently”, he added.

  20. #6120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post
    You forgot to say "oi didn't vo'e to leave the foockin' EU for em to come an' take me vaccine" while waving a St. George flag.
    nah i think i got that across. Didnt bother translating it though, they stole our language for free and never paid any of us who invented it
    Shh! Don't bring the English language into this. We are onto a winner with the plugs and electrics, but language .... Think we'll struggle to pull that one out as a win.
    Shitting up eve for .... well, longer than most of you scumbags.

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