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Thread: Pestilence or: How I Learned to Worry Constantly and Live with COVID

  1. #8541
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoirAvlaa View Post
    Moderna is the one that doesn't really drop in efficacy after 6 months right?
    Correct.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
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    Johns Hopkins CSSE COVID-19 Dashboard (updated link)

  2. #8542
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    Well epic fuck shit tittyfuck shit. My mom (77 years old) is confirmed positive, my aunt (79 y.o.) is too weak to go and get tested but has been ill for 4 days now. Mom got Pfizer 4 months back, aunt got nothing because youtube told her and her GP that vaccines are more dangerous than Covid. They are only living family closer than 2nd cousins I have.

    Not feeling quite fine at the moment, not at all. I cant get drunk enough for it to stop hurting, but not drunk enough to stop thinking about it. Considering on dumping 90% of my savings on lawyers to try and take most prominent local antivaxxers to court (freedumb of speech, waste of time and money).

    Shit, fuck, shit!

  3. #8543
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Annoyingly the reuters article links to itself instead of the Lancet paper. But judging by the timescales involved it looks like the group studied was probably elderly. In which case the results mirror the drop in efficacy of the Astra Zeneca jab in a similar cohort from Britain.
    The LANCET paper in detail

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...183-8/fulltext
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  4. #8544

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    Quote Originally Posted by dzajic View Post
    Well epic fuck shit tittyfuck shit. My mom (77 years old) is confirmed positive, my aunt (79 y.o.) is too weak to go and get tested but has been ill for 4 days now. Mom got Pfizer 4 months back, aunt got nothing because youtube told her and her GP that vaccines are more dangerous than Covid. They are only living family closer than 2nd cousins I have.
    Aw shit, really sorry to hear that. Keeping my fingers crossed your aunt pulls through.

  5. #8545
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Annoyingly the reuters article links to itself instead of the Lancet paper. But judging by the timescales involved it looks like the group studied was probably elderly. In which case the results mirror the drop in efficacy of the Astra Zeneca jab in a similar cohort from Britain.
    The LANCET paper in detail

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...183-8/fulltext
    The relevant point is that while the effectiveness to infections decreases, the effectiveness to serious forms of covid (=hospitalizations) does not. Sound very good to me and the vaccine does what it is supposed to - prevent dying?

    Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point. - Blaise Pascal, Pensées, 277

  6. #8546
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    Thanks all, fingers crossed

  7. #8547
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    Lessons to be learned from Singapore

    Highly-vaccinated, but more cases than ever: Singapore shows the world what ‘endemic’ COVID might look like

    https://fortune.com/2021/09/28/singa...ases-vaccines/

    ... Experts say that Singapore's climbing cases, more than half of which are in vaccinated individuals, may signal that COVID-19 is becoming an endemic disease in the city-state, meaning COVID-19 circulates in a population like its four coronaviruses cousins but doesn't upend lives due to widespread immunity. As long as deaths remain low, Singapore can set an example for how other countries, especially those that have maintained zero tolerance for COVID-19, can emerge from the pandemic...

    And a rundown on developing of antiviral drugs, both new and repurposed (Ivermectin trigger warning)

    Last edited by Lief Siddhe; October 6 2021 at 08:11:29 AM.
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  8. #8548
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  9. #8549
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    How sweet of you, Jack. Stay dumb.
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  10. #8550

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    People might stop mocking you if you actually said what points you're trying to make instead of linking and quoting random stuff in a manner that reminds people of a crazy person.

  11. #8551
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    Link 1: getting vaccinated doesn't remove you magically removed from the COVID pool. You can still get infected and infect others (old news). The moral superiority of vaccinated people baffles me since by vaccinating with the current stuff available we primarily help our own chances of not getting serious covid and that's it, but humans like doing that sort of thing and dehumanizing "others". You'd think the unvaccinated are walking around literally killing vaccinated people in the streets by coughing in their face. I don't like that sort of thing because "all x are y" is a terrible way to look at the world.

    Link 2: the horse dewormer (and molnupiravir) is being shown in trials as a possible cheap addition or alternative option for people who can't get/won't get vaccinated and MORE IMPORTANTLY countries that don't have vaccines yet at all cause they don't have oodles of moneyz to pay to the pharma corps. The media narrative around research into these drugs is another stupidly baffling thing. Continually deriding it as useless while scientists are still researching the thing is... 'muricah gonna 'muricah I guess.

    Read and watch for yourself or just ignore it since I'm a right wing death cultist conspiracy theorist, just like the people from Fortune magazine, Singapore authorities, Austin Journal of Pharmacology and Thermapeutics, Science Direct website, and the FDA
    Last edited by Lief Siddhe; October 6 2021 at 09:37:43 AM.
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  12. #8552
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    Nobody claimed getting vaccinated turns you into superman. But it dramatically reduces hospitalisation rates, which is key considering the next health care crisis is going to be in people who were prevented from being screened for other diseases and lack of access to early interventions. Not being vaccinated vastly increases your likelihood of being a burden on already overstretched healthcare infrastructure.

    The vast majority of ICU beds with unvaccinated covid patients in them would be empty (or occupied by somebody for non-covid healthcare issues) if they had been vaccinated. It's as simple as that.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  13. #8553

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Link 1: getting vaccinated doesn't remove you magically removed from the COVID pool. You can still get infected and infect others (old news). The moral superiority of vaccinated people baffles me since by vaccinating with the current stuff available we primarily help our own chances of not getting serious covid and that's it, but humans like doing that sort of thing and dehumanizing "others". You'd think the unvaccinated are walking around literally killing vaccinated people in the streets by coughing in their face. I don't like that sort of thing because "all x are y" is a terrible way to look at the world.
    It's always been known that vaccines don't make you immune, that's why the efficacy is less than 100%. Why do you think this is news?As for infecting others, the vaccines have been shown to significantly reduce how long you're infectious for due to the fact that your viral shedding reduces much, much faster if you're vaccinated.

    The unvaccinated are still much, much more likely to end up in hospital and morgues. For example, Singapore, where 80% of the entire population have had 2 doses, yet somewhere between 40 and 50% of people in hospital are unvaccinated. Now, when you realise that the bulk of unvaccinated are children, who are much less likely to end up in hospital, you come to realise that the unvaccinated people in hospital are those small number of adults who have not had a vaccine, which means they're even more disproportionately represented than the raw numbers would make you think.

    So yes, vaccines are the miracle and trying to "own the libs vaccinated" or whatever it is you're trying to do just makes you look a bit contrarian and, frankly, dumb.
    Link 2: the horse dewormer (and molnupiravir) is being shown in trials as a possible cheap addition or alternative option for people who can't get/won't get vaccinated and countries that don't have vaccines yet at all. The media narrative around is another stupidly baffling thing.

    Read and watch for yourself or just ignore it since I'm a right wing death cultist conspiracy theorist, just like the people from Fortune magazine, Singapore authorities, Austin Journal of Pharmacology and Thermapeutics, Science Direct website, and the FDA
    The main reason people call you an idiot is that the vaccines are still by far the safest option and that the horse dewormers may have some effect at very high doses but have their own side effects. Just Get Vaccinated, it's safer.

  14. #8554
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    That's it. Vaccinating only slows down and spreads out the epidemic by helping YOU not end up in a hospital which then as a sideffects helps fight this epidemic. Herd immunity by vaccinating in the middle of the epidemic or eradicating COVID by vaccinating was pure wishful thinking. It's still a good thing to get vaccines to strengthen your immunity but this moral superiority of some vaccinated people as if they did some extra noble thing for the world by taking the vax is just virtue signaling v 3.2. We're all gonna get and spread COVID one way or another in the coming years, generally speaking, and we're all gonna be partly responsible by being susceptible to the virus until a really good vaccine (you know, like the ones against children's diseaes are) is made. It's gonna be more like anti flu vaccines for a good time imho.

    The unvaccinated people in beds from COVID issue: A lot of people in hospitals end up there due to their life choices/styles/inability to get better (smokers, overweights, alcoholics, vitamin deficiency from poor food etc etc, not taking care of their health in general by not taking good medication or leading a maximum healthy lifestyle). Do we start now the blame game with them too? They're taking the beds that others could use better? Are these people also idiots that deserve to be fired? I thought that the point of universal health care is to try help everyone and don't judge, but it's no wonder 'muicah doesn't "get" this and it's a culture war issue. But I'm an idealist I guess.

    edit: the horse dewormer isn't being researched for it's antiparasitic properties but for its anti inflammatory. Just Get Vaccinated is not an option for a LOT of people around the world and is not the be all end all of treating covid, which is something media discussion of these drugs often seem to be completely oblivious to. but again, 'murican media gonna 'murican media.
    Last edited by Lief Siddhe; October 6 2021 at 09:57:34 AM.
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  15. #8555

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    That's it. Vaccinating only slows down and spreads out the epidemic by helping YOU not end up in a hospital which then as a sideffects helps fight this epidemic. Herd immunity by vaccinating in the middle of the epidemic or eradicating COVID by vaccinating was pure wishful thinking. It's still a good thing to get vaccines to strengthen your immunity but this moral superiority of some vaccinated people is just virtue signaling v 3.2. We're all gonna get and spread COVID one way or another, generally speaking.
    No, mass vaccination prevents another India. Herd immunity through vaccination has made some sort of return to normalcy possible without resulting in so many deaths we run out of fuel to cremate them with. It meant that care homes stopped losing a third to a half of their residents every time there was an outbreak. It meant a functioning healthcare system (even if it's now strained, it's at least not completely on its knees).

    Zero Covid was possible with wild type, it was even potentially possible with Alpha, but Delta has meant endemicity is certain. There is still a need to vaccinate and by not getting yourself vaccinated without a fucking good reason (hint: there aren't many at all), you're putting yourself and others at risk. Get Your Fucking Vaccine, Stop Being a Baby About It.

  16. #8556
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    The coronavirus is here to stay — here’s what that means

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00396-2

    In January, Nature asked more than 100 immunologists, infectious-disease researchers and virologists working on the coronavirus whether it could be eradicated. Almost 90% of respondents think that the coronavirus will become endemic — meaning that it will continue to circulate in pockets of the global population for years to come (see 'Endemic future').



    A LOT of people will (and already have) developed antibodies to covid by having it. Again, it's as if these vaccinations are the only way to be safe from covid. If you're immunocompromised, then yes, they vaccines are very important for your survival. But around 95% of people who got COVID survived it without any serious after effects. About 75+% of people who die from covid are older than 65. And, as viruses in nature do, it will kill less and less with time now because once the susceptible/weakened die, the surviving population is more resistant both from natural immunity and booster shots, so I don't see why the fucking panic and witch hunts. We got vaxxed, we improved our chances, but I don't feel the need to scream bloody murder at people who didn't improve their chances by not getting vaxxed yet.
    Last edited by Lief Siddhe; October 6 2021 at 10:11:37 AM.
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  17. #8557
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    That's it. Vaccinating only slows down and spreads out the epidemic by helping YOU not end up in a hospital which then as a sideffects helps fight this epidemic. Herd immunity by vaccinating in the middle of the epidemic or eradicating COVID by vaccinating was pure wishful thinking. It's still a good thing to get vaccines to strengthen your immunity but this moral superiority of some vaccinated people as if they did some extra noble thing for the world by taking the vax is just virtue signaling v 3.2. We're all gonna get and spread COVID one way or another in the coming years, generally speaking, and we're all gonna be partly responsible by being susceptible to the virus until a really good vaccine (you know, like the ones against children's diseaes are) is made. It's gonna be more like anti flu vaccines for a good time imho.

    The unvaccinated people in beds from COVID issue: A lot of people in hospitals end up there due to their life choices/styles/inability to get better (smokers, overweights, alcoholics, vitamin deficiency from poor food etc etc, not taking care of their health in general by not taking good medication or leading a maximum healthy lifestyle). Do we start now the blame game with them too? They're taking the beds that others could use better? Are these people also idiots that deserve to be fired? I thought that the point of universal health care is to try help everyone and don't judge, but it's no wonder 'muicah doesn't "get" this and it's a culture war issue. But I'm an idealist I guess.
    I don't know who you are fighting against. From a social democratic perspective, I'm not sure who or why anyone would argue that by taking the vaccine you did "some extra noble thing". I'm reading many comments in the light that taking the vaccine is your civic duty and even though it is not perfect, it's far superior to anything else we might have. Yes, it's possible we won't get rid of covid; yes, we might all get covid at one point; etc etc. As a whole, by taking the vaccine, we reduce the burden on single payer healthcare and thus allow the health care personnel to actually do their job of treating all the other cases. Since there's no pool of reserve health care workers, if we want people to get treatment, we do our civic duty and take the damn vaccine. If Ivermectin or something else becomes mandatory for, e.g., health care workers, then we (= us in the health care) take the pill too. We will probably never have a "really good vaccine".

    re: unvaccinated people in hospital beds. The society already tries to mitigate various health care risks by, for example, taxing tobacco harshly. Vaccines are free at delivery in the EU, and there is really no reason not to get one (particular medical conditions notwithstanding). The argument is same as against those avoiding taxes: they are incurring costs on the society and those avoiding taxes are blamed too. While for tax avoidance we can also pressure politicians to change the laws, we can (but don't want to) make the covid vaccine mandatory. Thus, it's better if we all just kept to the same message: take the damn vaccine. It works. Sure, it's a culture war issue, but not the way you think: on one hand we have those, who would like to keep some form of social democracy and on the other those, who want their cake and eat it too. But the latter position is impossible: you cannot have freedoms without responsibilities. There are no surplus health care workers: if they need treatment, someone else has to go without. Taking the vaccine is a responsibility you have for having various freedoms.
    Last edited by Timaios; October 6 2021 at 10:12:45 AM.

    Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point. - Blaise Pascal, Pensées, 277

  18. #8558

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    From that very article, almost 40% of immunologists thought that Covid would likely be eliminated from some regions. Whether perusing elimination or accepting endemicity, all paths lead to development of a vaccine and people getting their fucking vaccine. All other approaches lead to crippling deaths and/or economic (and therefore quality of life) harm.

  19. #8559

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    PLAGUE: Hide yo kids, hide yo wife, cause they infectin' EVERYBODY

    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    We will probably never have a "really good vaccine".
    Mostly because Lief's definition of "really good" is hilariously unrealistic. The vaccines that were developed for Covid are nothing short of miraculous in their efficacy, basically nothing has been developed so quickly that was anywhere near as effective.

  20. #8560
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    You don't eliminate a pandemic in some regions and not in others. It's either everywhere or it ain't gonna happen. And I repeat, while we're here doing our little thing, a large portion of the population of this planet does NOT have access to these vaccines which are new and expensive and THAT's why they're looking into other options.

    It's a whole other can of worms why "righties" ignore the vaxx or why "lefties" ignore research into these alternatives. The "developed" world gonna develop a very limited worldview, I guess.

    edit: THIS is hilariously unrealistic? Sorry for having high expectations for what I consider a "really good vaccine". We'll probably get it in a year or couple, but let's not pretend something that after 6 months drops to below 50% rate is "miracoulous".

    The IPV that has been used in the United States since 1987 is as effective as OPV for preventing polio. Two doses of IPV provides 90% immunity (protection) to all three types of poliovirus; 3 doses provides at least 99% immunity.

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/pol...%25%20immunity.

    Read up on the first year of polio vaccinations. It did wonderful things for the world and saved millions of lives, but getting the vax wasn't a nice story for a lot of kids and their parents in the first years because scientists fucked up. They're human after all.

    There's 2 sides to every coin. CDC's official list of vaccine fuck ups. I'm pro vax but I'm also not blind to mistakes.

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/co...s-history.html
    Last edited by Lief Siddhe; October 6 2021 at 10:23:48 AM.
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

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