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Thread: PLAGUE: Not even AZ is safe

  1. #6901
    Totally Not Larkonnis's Avatar
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    Just been microchipped today chaps. The AZ jab seems to be doing the rounds in my area. Quite a few people I know have been knocked for six by it for a day or two (which isn't unexpected).


  2. #6902
    Jack Coutu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    Because viruses mutate and evolve all the time. However, is there even a single case when a virus or a bacteria has escaped any lab anywhere? I'm not surprised it hasn't happened, I mean, we study lots of really nasty stuff in labs and I don't know of a single incident ever.
    IIRC there was one case in Russia where it was strongly suspected that some biological weapons research leaked into the neighborhood. But the beer virus is far from a bioweapon.
    Yeah if anyone thinks this is the worst a lab could of released they should brace themselves. It's barely the worst nature could of released. Lief turn that question back around on yourself as well, why the eagerness (at least apparently) to see this part of it through when it's likely you'll never know but everyone with some idea of it and people practiced in it say it's natural and there are bound to be worse pandemics as things continue?

  3. #6903

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    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    Because viruses mutate and evolve all the time. However, is there even a single case when a virus or a bacteria has escaped any lab anywhere? I'm not surprised it hasn't happened, I mean, we study lots of really nasty stuff in labs and I don't know of a single incident ever.
    IIRC there was one case in Russia where it was strongly suspected that some biological weapons research leaked into the neighborhood. But the beer virus is far from a bioweapon.
    Quick google search

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ry_biosecurity
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  4. #6904

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    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Just been microchipped today chaps. The AZ jab seems to be doing the rounds in my area. Quite a few people I know have been knocked for six by it for a day or two (which isn't unexpected).
    Yeah, I had it a couple of weeks ago and I felt achy and tired the next day. Fine the day after though. And no blood clots yet.

  5. #6905

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeromeDoutrande View Post
    Given that animal to human transmission apparently has long been a massive concern for importing new viruses into the human population, and Chinese track+trace traced early infections back to a market also trading in wild animals, it just seems entirely plausible and likely to me that that is the source. I don't feel a need to examine other options.
    I am pretty sure that the Chinese have found coronavirus victims that pre-date the wuhan wet market outbreak. The market outbreak started in mid-late December 2019 but China reported deaths as early as November 17th 2019 (*) of people unconnected to the wet market. Studying mutation rates suggests it jumped to humans sometime in October or November 2019.

    (*) With the obvious caveat that any data coming out of China is suspect.

    https://www.livescience.com/first-ca...rus-found.html

    The Wuhan market was (almost certainly) the first publicized superspreader event rather than the actual origin.

  6. #6906
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GeromeDoutrande View Post
    Given that animal to human transmission apparently has long been a massive concern for importing new viruses into the human population, and Chinese track+trace traced early infections back to a market also trading in wild animals, it just seems entirely plausible and likely to me that that is the source. I don't feel a need to examine other options.
    I am pretty sure that the Chinese have found coronavirus victims that pre-date the wuhan wet market outbreak. The market outbreak started in mid-late December 2019 but China reported deaths as early as November 17th 2019 (*) of people unconnected to the wet market. Studying mutation rates suggests it jumped to humans sometime in October or November 2019.

    (*) With the obvious caveat that any data coming out of China is suspect.

    https://www.livescience.com/first-ca...rus-found.html

    The Wuhan market was (almost certainly) the first publicized superspreader event rather than the actual origin.
    Is this all based on this article you linked or are there better sources?

    Edit: Obviously the bit where this market was the place of a super-spreader event is entirely possible. Learning about confirmed earlier covid deaths would be more interesting.
    Last edited by GeromeDoutrande; March 31 2021 at 07:50:35 PM.

  7. #6907
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    From WHO's report on origins of virus from 2020:

    Subsequent investigations into the first human cases have determined that they had onset of symptoms around 1 December 2019.
    However, these cases had no direct link to the Huanan Wholesale Seafood Market and they may therefore have been infected in
    November through contact with earlier undetected cases (incubation time between date of exposure and date of symptom onset can
    be up to 14 days). Additional studies are ongoing to as whether unrecognized infections in humans may have happened as early as
    mid-November 2019.

    From:

    https://www.who.int/health-topics/co...s-of-the-virus

    https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/...2020.1-eng.pdf
    Last edited by Lief Siddhe; March 31 2021 at 07:54:01 PM.
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  8. #6908
    GeromeDoutrande's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    From WHO's report on origins of virus:

    Subsequent investigations into the first human cases have determined that they had onset of symptoms around 1 December 2019.
    However, these cases had no direct link to the Huanan Wholesale Seafood Market and they may therefore have been infected in
    November through contact with earlier undetected cases (incubation time between date of exposure and date of symptom onset can
    be up to 14 days). Additional studies are ongoing to as whether unrecognized infections in humans may have happened as early as
    mid-November 2019.

    From:

    https://www.who.int/health-topics/co...s-of-the-virus

    https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/...2020.1-eng.pdf
    Great, thanks

  9. #6909

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeromeDoutrande View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GeromeDoutrande View Post
    Given that animal to human transmission apparently has long been a massive concern for importing new viruses into the human population, and Chinese track+trace traced early infections back to a market also trading in wild animals, it just seems entirely plausible and likely to me that that is the source. I don't feel a need to examine other options.
    I am pretty sure that the Chinese have found coronavirus victims that pre-date the wuhan wet market outbreak. The market outbreak started in mid-late December 2019 but China reported deaths as early as November 17th 2019 (*) of people unconnected to the wet market. Studying mutation rates suggests it jumped to humans sometime in October or November 2019.

    (*) With the obvious caveat that any data coming out of China is suspect.

    https://www.livescience.com/first-ca...rus-found.html

    The Wuhan market was (almost certainly) the first publicized superspreader event rather than the actual origin.
    Is this all based on this article you linked or are there better sources?

    Edit: Obviously the bit where this market was the place of a super-spreader event is entirely possible. Learning about confirmed earlier covid deaths would be more interesting.
    Well there were multiple western media sources back in March 202 that wrote about it but they may well have based their stories on the same South China Morning Post article linked in the livescience piece.

    But there's been a new round of stories...

    Here's the Wall Street Journal from Feb 9 2021:
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-1...ts-11613730600
    Paywalled after the first couple of paragraphs.

    Business Insider Feb 10, 2021:
    https://www.businessinsider.com/coro...tbreak-2020-12

    Quote Originally Posted by Business insider
    The WHO team confirmed the virus didn't make its initial jump from animals to humans at the Huanan market. Evidence suggests the virus was circulating elsewhere in Wuhan before the market outbreak happened, Liang Wannian, a member of China's National Health Commission who assisted with the WHO investigation, said in a press conference Tuesday.

    Most likely, the market was simply the site of an early superspreader event, with one sick person infecting an atypically large number of others. Superspreader events around the world have created clusters of infections that cropped up almost overnight.

  10. #6910
    GeromeDoutrande's Avatar
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    Probably not from that market then and certainly not at the time I thought it had happened. Thanks Nax!

  11. #6911
    Totally Not Larkonnis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    Because viruses mutate and evolve all the time. However, is there even a single case when a virus or a bacteria has escaped any lab anywhere? I'm not surprised it hasn't happened, I mean, we study lots of really nasty stuff in labs and I don't know of a single incident ever.
    IIRC there was one case in Russia where it was strongly suspected that some biological weapons research leaked into the neighborhood. But the beer virus is far from a bioweapon.
    Yeah if anyone thinks this is the worst a lab could of released they should brace themselves. It's barely the worst nature could of released. Lief turn that question back around on yourself as well, why the eagerness (at least apparently) to see this part of it through when it's likely you'll never know but everyone with some idea of it and people practiced in it say it's natural and there are bound to be worse pandemics as things continue?
    Reeeeee (my bold).

    Playing devil's advocate... if it were a bioweapon COVID-19 has been quite good, if not perfect, for China's growth. They don't have huge numbers of boomers with co-morbidities, they have the authoritarian infrastructure in place to enforce lockdowns which the public will comply with and a growing middle/business class who are travelling all over the place exporting it.


  12. #6912
    Keckers's Avatar
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    If it was a bio weapon I would expect it would have done a better job at wiping out the boomers.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  13. #6913

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    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    Because viruses mutate and evolve all the time. However, is there even a single case when a virus or a bacteria has escaped any lab anywhere? I'm not surprised it hasn't happened, I mean, we study lots of really nasty stuff in labs and I don't know of a single incident ever.
    IIRC there was one case in Russia where it was strongly suspected that some biological weapons research leaked into the neighborhood. But the beer virus is far from a bioweapon.
    Yeah if anyone thinks this is the worst a lab could of released they should brace themselves. It's barely the worst nature could of released. Lief turn that question back around on yourself as well, why the eagerness (at least apparently) to see this part of it through when it's likely you'll never know but everyone with some idea of it and people practiced in it say it's natural and there are bound to be worse pandemics as things continue?
    Reeeeee (my bold).

    Playing devil's advocate... if it were a bioweapon COVID-19 has been quite good, if not perfect, for China's growth. They don't have huge numbers of boomers with co-morbidities, they have the authoritarian infrastructure in place to enforce lockdowns which the public will comply with and a growing middle/business class who are travelling all over the place exporting it.
    If it were a bio weapon they would already have a vaccine ready to go and they would have made sure the virus itself was stable as to avoid mutations.

    Just playing devils advocate on your advocate.

  14. #6914
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    WHO calls for further studies, data on origin of SARS-CoV-2 virus, reiterates that all hypotheses remain open

    “As far as WHO is concerned, all hypotheses remain on the table. This report is a very important beginning, but it is not the end. We have not yet found the source of the virus, and we must continue to follow the science and leave no stone unturned as we do,” said Dr Tedros. “Finding the origin of a virus takes time and we owe it to the world to find the source so we can collectively take steps to reduce the risk of this happening again. No single research trip can provide all the answers.”

    https://www.who.int/news/item/30-03-...es-remain-open
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  15. #6915
    Totally Not Larkonnis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    Because viruses mutate and evolve all the time. However, is there even a single case when a virus or a bacteria has escaped any lab anywhere? I'm not surprised it hasn't happened, I mean, we study lots of really nasty stuff in labs and I don't know of a single incident ever.
    IIRC there was one case in Russia where it was strongly suspected that some biological weapons research leaked into the neighborhood. But the beer virus is far from a bioweapon.
    Yeah if anyone thinks this is the worst a lab could of released they should brace themselves. It's barely the worst nature could of released. Lief turn that question back around on yourself as well, why the eagerness (at least apparently) to see this part of it through when it's likely you'll never know but everyone with some idea of it and people practiced in it say it's natural and there are bound to be worse pandemics as things continue?
    Reeeeee (my bold).

    Playing devil's advocate... if it were a bioweapon COVID-19 has been quite good, if not perfect, for China's growth. They don't have huge numbers of boomers with co-morbidities, they have the authoritarian infrastructure in place to enforce lockdowns which the public will comply with and a growing middle/business class who are travelling all over the place exporting it.
    If it were a bio weapon they would already have a vaccine ready to go and they would have made sure the virus itself was stable as to avoid mutations.

    Just playing devils advocate on your advocate.
    That would be sus as fuck on both counts and you know it.


  16. #6916
    evil edna's Avatar
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    Release from a lab accidentally with virus' being fucked with for research is plausible. Bioweapon really isnt

  17. #6917

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    Given how easily the beer virus has been jumping from animals to humans and back I seriously doubt it is anything but natural.

  18. #6918
    Cosmin's Avatar
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    The lab theory has already been debunked, can we move on with bashing AZ now pls?

    Also, Occam's Razor. It's interesting to believe stuff has been made in a lab and also reassuring (because another pandemic may be averted by better safety protocols and what not), but unfortunately mother nature is much more savage than most people think. Read "The Hot Zone" and "The Demon in the Freezer" by Richard Preston for further information on how easily and seamlessly we could go from the dominant species on the planet to a bunch of cavemen. Micro-organisms are not to be joked with - and research labs are aware of this, the protocols are incredibly complex and safe. But nature can fuck us over in a heart beat, especially since we keep poking her with sticks (e.g. see how bovines are "cultivated" with antibiotic shots and what not).
    Guns make the news, science doesn't.

  19. #6919

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    Germany is now apparently also limiting AZ to people over 60 years old.

  20. #6920
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    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Germany is now apparently also limiting AZ to people over 60 years old.
    Indeed.

    So much for vaccinating teachers to reopen schools even more. I mean, the dates I got for my vaccinations were now and in the Summer break. Now it looks like first shot in Summer, second shot even later.

    Not that this will make them rethink their school reopening plans.

    BTW, for Berlin we're talking grades seven to nine, all other classes are back to school already anyway. Only primary school teachers got vaccinated.

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