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Thread: PLAGUE: An American Musical

  1. #3961
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    I assume the machines are either leased or come with extended warranty (pretty standard for gov contracts here). If anything happens to them, it's an RMA anyway.

    So glad we don't need to admin them.

    EDIT: also minimum warranty is 1 year anyway, manufacturing defects are covered for two years. These machines come with modems and data contracts. Might be they are technically owned by the cell phone provider over the two years anyway.
    JamF is like remote device control of what can be installed, default browser page, etc.
    Ah. Good thing I don't have to deal with that - initialising is supposed to be a simple pairing process or something? I haven't been asked to do it (yet), so I have no clue what really needs to be done. I'll be happy if I never find out.
    You're a teacher in a ghetto school. You're supposed to press power button and follow instructions on screen/let it do it's thing. Don't worry.
    Hahaha. Guess who is doing the administration of our school network infrastructure?

    Our physics teacher.

    One day a week an admin from an IT company comes by because my school decided to buy a few textbooks less* each year and pay for a barebones support contract.

    *From our budget we need to provide all textbooks to half of our students (roughly 350 kids, they are on welfare, hence why they get all the books), hold back 25% of the budget to pay eventual IT related bills (repair and replacements, not ongoing support contracts etc) and buy any classroom furniture. Oh and whatever materials are needed for shop classes, science classes etc.

    The budget for this year is lower than my salary.
    nevar forget

  2. #3962
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post

    Quoting because I think it's the first time I agree with Isyel. Obviously letting a pull yourself by your bootstraps guy that runs repair business order 0.25$ part and fix that loose socket while charging reasonably for the service should be banned outright. We're loosing sales here, people. Won't somebody think of the shareholders?
    If you want to get mad about something you may want to take a look at John Deere's current business practices if you haven't already.

    Essentially holding farmers hostage with their bullshit attempt to monopolise equipment repairs and reselling.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  3. #3963
    rufuske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post

    Quoting because I think it's the first time I agree with Isyel. Obviously letting a pull yourself by your bootstraps guy that runs repair business order 0.25$ part and fix that loose socket while charging reasonably for the service should be banned outright. We're loosing sales here, people. Won't somebody think of the shareholders?
    If you want to get mad about something you may want to take a look at John Deere's current business practices if you haven't already.

    Essentially holding farmers hostage with their bullshit attempt to monopolise equipment repairs and reselling.
    Hahaha, I know exactly what you mean. And the bussiness of cracking tractors and updating it with firmware from higher models or custom is booming here. They still quite haven't figured out it part of their business, security the most. Imagine that, farming equipment of of all things.

  4. #3964
    rufuske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    I assume the machines are either leased or come with extended warranty (pretty standard for gov contracts here). If anything happens to them, it's an RMA anyway.

    So glad we don't need to admin them.

    EDIT: also minimum warranty is 1 year anyway, manufacturing defects are covered for two years. These machines come with modems and data contracts. Might be they are technically owned by the cell phone provider over the two years anyway.
    JamF is like remote device control of what can be installed, default browser page, etc.
    Ah. Good thing I don't have to deal with that - initialising is supposed to be a simple pairing process or something? I haven't been asked to do it (yet), so I have no clue what really needs to be done. I'll be happy if I never find out.
    You're a teacher in a ghetto school. You're supposed to press power button and follow instructions on screen/let it do it's thing. Don't worry.
    Hahaha. Guess who is doing the administration of our school network infrastructure?

    Our physics teacher.

    One day a week an admin from an IT company comes by because my school decided to buy a few textbooks less* each year and pay for a barebones support contract.

    *From our budget we need to provide all textbooks to half of our students (roughly 350 kids, they are on welfare, hence why they get all the books), hold back 25% of the budget to pay eventual IT related bills (repair and replacements, not ongoing support contracts etc) and buy any classroom furniture. Oh and whatever materials are needed for shop classes, science classes etc.

    The budget for this year is lower than my salary.
    Here it's always math teacher with a mustache. I shit you not, mustache must be a requirement. It's statistically improbable for all of them to have it by accident.

  5. #3965

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    If you want to get mad about something you may want to take a look at John Deere's current business practices if you haven't already.

    Essentially holding farmers hostage with their bullshit attempt to monopolise equipment repairs and reselling.
    The two items are only tangentially linked. John Deere construct convoluted lease plans based on the fact they are also usually the financier. At the end of the day you buy most of the electronics you own. You can attempt to fix them all you like, it's just that manufacturers have decided that it is cheaper for them and better for the overwhelming majority of their customers to build smaller, lighter devices rather than to try and aid repairability. The reality is that most users, even when batteries could be swapped and screens easily replaced, never maintained their devices in that way and we're far better served with smaller, more efficient devices and proper provision for recycling than we are the inefficient provision of "repairability" that only a tiny handful of neckbeards will use anyway.

    see also: modular phones, desktop PCs etc.etc.

  6. #3966
    rufuske's Avatar
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    TIL being allowed to pull the cover and replace battery with not-dead one makes you a neckbeard. Yeah and let's completely ignore people that run repair businesses that don't overcharge and not even gently nudge towards buying new one as replacement. It's totally not about that, honest.

  7. #3967
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Farming communities have been servicing, maintaining, repairing, upgrading, modifying etc their own equipment for decades. There are independent repair businesses solely for agricultural machinery in most rural areas.

    There is no excuse for removing the right to repair from just about any industry I can think of. Its driven by rent seeking behaviour and always works against the interests of the consumer.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  8. #3968

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    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    TIL being allowed to pull the cover and replace battery with not-dead one makes you a neckbeard. Yeah and let's completely ignore people that run repair businesses that don't overcharge and not even gently nudge towards buying new one as replacement. It's totally not about that, honest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Farming communities have been servicing, maintaining, repairing, upgrading, modifying etc their own equipment for decades. There are independent repair businesses solely for agricultural machinery in most rural areas.

    There is no excuse for removing the right to repair from just about any industry I can think of. Its driven by rent seeking behaviour and always works against the interests of the consumer.
    This. All of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    The two items are only tangentially linked. John Deere construct convoluted lease plans based on the fact they are also usually the financier. At the end of the day you buy most of the electronics you own. You can attempt to fix them all you like, it's just that manufacturers have decided that it is cheaper for them and better for the overwhelming majority of their customers to build smaller, lighter devices rather than to try and aid repairability. The reality is that most users, even when batteries could be swapped and screens easily replaced, never maintained their devices in that way and we're far better served with smaller, more efficient devices and proper provision for recycling than we are the inefficient provision of "repairability" that only a tiny handful of neckbeards will use anyway.

    see also: modular phones, desktop PCs etc.etc.
    And this is complete bullshit.

    Asking people to replace their whole devices constantly and not repair perfectly workable examples is fucking asinine.

    TIL it's a neckbeard thing to want to replace your broken screen for cheap. I should let some of my friends know they've joined these esteemed ranks.
    Last edited by Isyel; May 29 2020 at 02:57:17 PM.

  9. #3969
    The Pube Whisperer Maximillian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    TIL being allowed to pull the cover and replace battery with not-dead one makes you a neckbeard. Yeah and let's completely ignore people that run repair businesses that don't overcharge and not even gently nudge towards buying new one as replacement. It's totally not about that, honest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Farming communities have been servicing, maintaining, repairing, upgrading, modifying etc their own equipment for decades. There are independent repair businesses solely for agricultural machinery in most rural areas.

    There is no excuse for removing the right to repair from just about any industry I can think of. Its driven by rent seeking behaviour and always works against the interests of the consumer.
    This. All of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    The two items are only tangentially linked. John Deere construct convoluted lease plans based on the fact they are also usually the financier. At the end of the day you buy most of the electronics you own. You can attempt to fix them all you like, it's just that manufacturers have decided that it is cheaper for them and better for the overwhelming majority of their customers to build smaller, lighter devices rather than to try and aid repairability. The reality is that most users, even when batteries could be swapped and screens easily replaced, never maintained their devices in that way and we're far better served with smaller, more efficient devices and proper provision for recycling than we are the inefficient provision of "repairability" that only a tiny handful of neckbeards will use anyway.

    see also: modular phones, desktop PCs etc.etc.
    And this is complete bullshit.

    Asking people to replace their whole devices constantly and not repair perfectly workable examples is fucking asinine.

    TIL it's a neckbeard thing to want to replace your broken screen for cheap. I should let some of my friends know they've joined these esteemed ranks.
    This is precisely why I have a restored 1980s tractor and have bought second-hand tilling and cultivating attachments. I can repair my own damn tractor thankyou. Newer stuff is full of electronics and crap that fail out in the field. Same as how modern 4x4s are full of entertainment systems and electronics that fail when you do anything harder than taking little sarah and johnny to soccer practice.

    Luckily we don't have patented seed stock in Australia - yet.

  10. #3970
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    If you want to get mad about something you may want to take a look at John Deere's current business practices if you haven't already.

    Essentially holding farmers hostage with their bullshit attempt to monopolise equipment repairs and reselling.
    The two items are only tangentially linked. John Deere construct convoluted lease plans based on the fact they are also usually the financier. At the end of the day you buy most of the electronics you own. You can attempt to fix them all you like, it's just that manufacturers have decided that it is cheaper for them and better for the overwhelming majority of their customers to build smaller, lighter devices rather than to try and aid repairability. The reality is that most users, even when batteries could be swapped and screens easily replaced, never maintained their devices in that way and we're far better served with smaller, more efficient devices and proper provision for recycling than we are the inefficient provision of "repairability" that only a tiny handful of neckbeards will use anyway.

    see also: modular phones, desktop PCs etc.etc.
    Why not just outright say you support big-ag corporations you dumb fucking nerd
    Last edited by mewninn; May 29 2020 at 03:19:00 PM.

  11. #3971

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    EU has also already passed the first stage of right-to-repair legistration, IIRC it was for things like washing machines and other home appliances, but they are working on expanding it. Haven't really looked what the said laws say but still steps in the right direction.

  12. #3972
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    The right to repair "debate" is hobbyists asking apple to be a parts supplying business as well. Allowing "repairability" by untrained hobbyists is certainly going to lead to smaller, more compact, more efficient devices. Is there some inefficiency related to this? sure. Do I care. No. I haven't "owned" an apple device in nearly 10 years.

    I simply lease them. I don't need obsolete electronic junk cluttering up the house. I have enough vintage synthesizers.
    Corporate defense force assemble!

    You'll quickly notice a short list of companies Erich will immediately within milliseconds jump to the defense of no matter how shitty their practices may be.
    Quoting because I think it's the first time I agree with Isyel. Obviously letting a pull yourself by your bootstraps guy that runs repair business order 0.25$ part and fix that loose socket while charging reasonably for the service should be banned outright. We're loosing sales here, people. Won't somebody think of the shareholders?
    And then untrained dude in a shack fucks up my customers expensive laptop, and then I get to resolve angry customer who is now angry at me because a lot of people apparently lack the ability to string concepts together and the situation is shit for everyone because I have no control of untrained dudes output.

    I'm not defending a company. I'm trying to correct what is apparently a gap in understanding on how the world works.
    meh

  13. #3973
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    It's pretty simple though.

    The manufacturer warranties your product and warranties their work. They charge more for the repair.

    OR you can go to the guy who isn't the manufacturer and might fuck it up. If he's trustworthy, he warranties his work but charges less than the...ahem...high fees Apple charge. If he's not trustworthy he doesn't warranty it and you might get burnt.

    I did this for a living for a small business for years and I literally never fucked up anyone's laptop. And to customers that wanted guaranteed fast repairs I would happily recommend Lenovo and HP laptops with their in place swap warranties. We'd even action them for the customer. The key is choice.

    (how is this related to Coronavirus out of interest?)
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  14. #3974
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    It's pretty simple though.

    The manufacturer warranties your product and warranties their work. They charge more for the repair.

    OR you can go to the guy who isn't the manufacturer and might fuck it up. If he's trustworthy, he warranties his work but charges less than the...ahem...high fees Apple charge. If he's not trustworthy he doesn't warranty it and you might get burnt.

    I did this for a living for a small business for years and I literally never fucked up anyone's laptop. And to customers that wanted guaranteed fast repairs I would happily recommend Lenovo and HP laptops with their in place swap warranties. We'd even action them for the customer. The key is choice.

    (how is this related to Coronavirus out of interest?)
    Berlin decided to buy iPads and lend them to low income students. I am absolutely surprised by the course of action (remember: the same people don't provide work email accounts to teachers). Everyone else decided to argue about how evil Apple is for not allowing repairs.
    nevar forget

  15. #3975
    Armyofme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    I assume the machines are either leased or come with extended warranty (pretty standard for gov contracts here). If anything happens to them, it's an RMA anyway.

    So glad we don't need to admin them.

    EDIT: also minimum warranty is 1 year anyway, manufacturing defects are covered for two years. These machines come with modems and data contracts. Might be they are technically owned by the cell phone provider over the two years anyway.
    JamF is like remote device control of what can be installed, default browser page, etc.
    Ah. Good thing I don't have to deal with that - initialising is supposed to be a simple pairing process or something? I haven't been asked to do it (yet), so I have no clue what really needs to be done. I'll be happy if I never find out.
    You're a teacher in a ghetto school. You're supposed to press power button and follow instructions on screen/let it do it's thing. Don't worry.
    Hahaha. Guess who is doing the administration of our school network infrastructure?

    Our physics teacher.

    One day a week an admin from an IT company comes by because my school decided to buy a few textbooks less* each year and pay for a barebones support contract.

    *From our budget we need to provide all textbooks to half of our students (roughly 350 kids, they are on welfare, hence why they get all the books), hold back 25% of the budget to pay eventual IT related bills (repair and replacements, not ongoing support contracts etc) and buy any classroom furniture. Oh and whatever materials are needed for shop classes, science classes etc.

    The budget for this year is lower than my salary.
    Wtf, what kinda 3rd world shit country do you live in?

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  16. #3976
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armyofme View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    I assume the machines are either leased or come with extended warranty (pretty standard for gov contracts here). If anything happens to them, it's an RMA anyway.

    So glad we don't need to admin them.

    EDIT: also minimum warranty is 1 year anyway, manufacturing defects are covered for two years. These machines come with modems and data contracts. Might be they are technically owned by the cell phone provider over the two years anyway.
    JamF is like remote device control of what can be installed, default browser page, etc.
    Ah. Good thing I don't have to deal with that - initialising is supposed to be a simple pairing process or something? I haven't been asked to do it (yet), so I have no clue what really needs to be done. I'll be happy if I never find out.
    You're a teacher in a ghetto school. You're supposed to press power button and follow instructions on screen/let it do it's thing. Don't worry.
    Hahaha. Guess who is doing the administration of our school network infrastructure?

    Our physics teacher.

    One day a week an admin from an IT company comes by because my school decided to buy a few textbooks less* each year and pay for a barebones support contract.

    *From our budget we need to provide all textbooks to half of our students (roughly 350 kids, they are on welfare, hence why they get all the books), hold back 25% of the budget to pay eventual IT related bills (repair and replacements, not ongoing support contracts etc) and buy any classroom furniture. Oh and whatever materials are needed for shop classes, science classes etc.

    The budget for this year is lower than my salary.
    Wtf, what kinda 3rd world shit country do you live in?
    Germany.
    nevar forget

  17. #3977
    Armyofme's Avatar
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    And the kids dont get their own laptops at schools and shit?
    I had expected that was common in most of Europe by now, at least free textbooks for everyone up to higher education.

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  18. #3978
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    It's pretty simple though.

    The manufacturer warranties your product and warranties their work. They charge more for the repair.

    OR you can go to the guy who isn't the manufacturer and might fuck it up. If he's trustworthy, he warranties his work but charges less than the...ahem...high fees Apple charge. If he's not trustworthy he doesn't warranty it and you might get burnt.

    I did this for a living for a small business for years and I literally never fucked up anyone's laptop. And to customers that wanted guaranteed fast repairs I would happily recommend Lenovo and HP laptops with their in place swap warranties. We'd even action them for the customer. The key is choice.

    (how is this related to Coronavirus out of interest?)
    It’s pretty simple from the viewpoint of the OEM who sells training, support, etc too.

    Ultimately, the first consideration is user experience now. That’s what makes the money. Your phone is a service now. It’s not a silicate and metal rock weve taught to entertain you.

    That’s all I’m trying to add to the discussion, so these things don’t cause confusion and misunderstand of why these companies do these things.

    (Idk, someone was angry at apple)
    Last edited by erichkknaar; May 29 2020 at 06:56:08 PM.
    meh

  19. #3979

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armyofme View Post
    And the kids dont get their own laptops at schools and shit?
    I had expected that was common in most of Europe by now, at least free textbooks for everyone up to higher education.
    Free textbooks, supplies and free meals yes, free computers, no

  20. #3980
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armyofme View Post
    And the kids dont get their own laptops at schools and shit?
    I had expected that was common in most of Europe by now, at least free textbooks for everyone up to higher education.
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Armyofme View Post
    And the kids dont get their own laptops at schools and shit?
    I had expected that was common in most of Europe by now, at least free textbooks for everyone up to higher education.
    Free textbooks, supplies and free meals yes, free computers, no
    No free textbooks, no free supplies, no free meals*, no free computers.

    *Elementary schools in Berlin have started getting free lunches since last year.
    nevar forget

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