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Thread: North Korean Nuclear Boogaloo

  1. #821
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Whats a glorious world we live in.. The US is calling for blood, China is saying they will prevent a first strike by the US and Russia is being the sensible option and calling for calm and peaceful talks..
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  2. #822
    Donor Miep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Whats a glorious world we live in.. The US is calling for blood, China is saying they will prevent a first strike by the US and Russia is being the sensible option and calling for calm and peaceful talks..
    While beeing the ones delivering the rocket engines to the Norkies by a pretty good chance. Well played.
    When I see a bird that walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck id call it a duck.
    And if the bird denies to be a duck it is a russian duck.

  3. #823
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Whats a glorious world we live in.. The US is calling for blood, China is saying they will prevent a first strike by the US and Russia is being the sensible option and calling for calm and peaceful talks..
    While beeing the ones delivering the rocket engines to the Norkies by a pretty good chance. Well played.
    Oh yeah they aren't being the good guys.. Its just funny.

    In fact I think there are no good guys this time around. Possibly China? I mean they really don't want a nuclear NK and would much prefer them to be their puppet, but even they aren't doing whats best for everyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  4. #824
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Whats a glorious world we live in.. The US is calling for blood, China is saying they will prevent a first strike by the US and Russia is being the sensible option and calling for calm and peaceful talks..
    While beeing the ones delivering the rocket engines to the Norkies by a pretty good chance. Well played.
    Oh yeah they aren't being the good guys.. Its just funny.

    In fact I think there are no good guys this time around. Possibly China? I mean they really don't want a nuclear NK and would much prefer them to be their puppet, but even they aren't doing whats best for everyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  5. #825
    Sandzibar's Avatar
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    China is concerned that the mountain NK does all their tests under is going to collapse if more tests are done, and shit radiation all over their faces.

  6. #826
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post

    The brain drain was massive.
    You're still there i suppose.
    ----
    What makes you think that?

    Also why do you imply that it would apply to me? Do you think I am that old?

    I mean, sure, I could go with: no you are an idiot.

    But that wouldn't even begin to be low enough to reach your standards.
    nevar forget

  7. #827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I'm not quite sure why people find it so impossible to believe North Korea could develop nuclear weapons independently. It may be a totalitarian, famine ravaged international pariah but that doesn't make it impossible for it to educate scientists and have successful engineering programs. Especially when they've prioritised the fight against the US over feeding their citizens
    You need a broad industrial base for a nuclear and missile programm. The Norkies dont have it.
    Try to build a car all on yourself. Wont work in a lifetime even if you know what to do in theory.
    The US actually made an experiment in that regard in the late 60s or 70s (i m not sure, it was an anecdotal reference in a 'weapons of mass destruction' lecture i took on uni). They tasked a couple engineers with no background in nuclear engineering to make plans for a nuke. They had a budget and only publically accessible materials available. I dont remember if they designed a simple gun-type or an implosion device. However the bomb was then built by the US and tested. It worked flawlessly. So i dont find it hard to believe that even a (backwards) country like North Korea can develop and build Nukes 70 years after the US deployed them.

  8. #828
    Caldrion Dosto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I'm not quite sure why people find it so impossible to believe North Korea could develop nuclear weapons independently. It may be a totalitarian, famine ravaged international pariah but that doesn't make it impossible for it to educate scientists and have successful engineering programs. Especially when they've prioritised the fight against the US over feeding their citizens
    You need a broad industrial base for a nuclear and missile programm. The Norkies dont have it.
    Try to build a car all on yourself. Wont work in a lifetime even if you know what to do in theory.
    The US actually made an experiment in that regard in the late 60s or 70s (i m not sure, it was an anecdotal reference in a 'weapons of mass destruction' lecture i took on uni). They tasked a couple engineers with no background in nuclear engineering to make plans for a nuke. They had a budget and only publically accessible materials available. I dont remember if they designed a simple gun-type or an implosion device. However the bomb was then built by the US and tested. It worked flawlessly. So i dont find it hard to believe that even a (backwards) country like North Korea can develop and build Nukes 70 years after the US deployed them.
    Well the problem with your analogy is the industry part.

    No one as far as i can see are saying small countries cant design nukes. Im willing to bet several people here even are able to come up with some kind of working design. The problem occurs when you try to build one and USA have a pretty fucking huge industry that they can use on whatever random design people come up with.

    I mean the first nuclear reactor was built of fucking wood.

  9. #829
    Straight Hustlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I'm not quite sure why people find it so impossible to believe North Korea could develop nuclear weapons independently. It may be a totalitarian, famine ravaged international pariah but that doesn't make it impossible for it to educate scientists and have successful engineering programs. Especially when they've prioritised the fight against the US over feeding their citizens
    You need a broad industrial base for a nuclear and missile programm. The Norkies dont have it.
    Try to build a car all on yourself. Wont work in a lifetime even if you know what to do in theory.
    The US actually made an experiment in that regard in the late 60s or 70s (i m not sure, it was an anecdotal reference in a 'weapons of mass destruction' lecture i took on uni). They tasked a couple engineers with no background in nuclear engineering to make plans for a nuke. They had a budget and only publically accessible materials available. I dont remember if they designed a simple gun-type or an implosion device. However the bomb was then built by the US and tested. It worked flawlessly. So i dont find it hard to believe that even a (backwards) country like North Korea can develop and build Nukes 70 years after the US deployed them.
    Well the problem with your analogy is the industry part.

    No one as far as i can see are saying small countries cant design nukes. Im willing to bet several people here even are able to come up with some kind of working design. The problem occurs when you try to build one and USA have a pretty fucking huge industry that they can use on whatever random design people come up with.

    I mean the first nuclear reactor was built of fucking wood.
    m8 this isnt 1945 you can get a cheapo knock of CNC machine from china for peanuts and it will still be leagues better than what was used to build the early atom bombs.

  10. #830
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I'm not quite sure why people find it so impossible to believe North Korea could develop nuclear weapons independently. It may be a totalitarian, famine ravaged international pariah but that doesn't make it impossible for it to educate scientists and have successful engineering programs. Especially when they've prioritised the fight against the US over feeding their citizens
    You need a broad industrial base for a nuclear and missile programm. The Norkies dont have it.
    Try to build a car all on yourself. Wont work in a lifetime even if you know what to do in theory.
    The US actually made an experiment in that regard in the late 60s or 70s (i m not sure, it was an anecdotal reference in a 'weapons of mass destruction' lecture i took on uni). They tasked a couple engineers with no background in nuclear engineering to make plans for a nuke. They had a budget and only publically accessible materials available. I dont remember if they designed a simple gun-type or an implosion device. However the bomb was then built by the US and tested. It worked flawlessly. So i dont find it hard to believe that even a (backwards) country like North Korea can develop and build Nukes 70 years after the US deployed them.
    Gun-type weapons are trivial to design and build. As long as you've got a critical mass and the collision between the two pieces of uranium is energetic enough, boom. The only hard part is obtaining the fissile material in the first place.

    Anyway, piece on that project you referenced: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...24/usa.science
    Last edited by Lachesis VII; September 5 2017 at 07:39:09 PM.

  11. #831
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I'm not quite sure why people find it so impossible to believe North Korea could develop nuclear weapons independently. It may be a totalitarian, famine ravaged international pariah but that doesn't make it impossible for it to educate scientists and have successful engineering programs. Especially when they've prioritised the fight against the US over feeding their citizens
    You need a broad industrial base for a nuclear and missile programm. The Norkies dont have it.
    Try to build a car all on yourself. Wont work in a lifetime even if you know what to do in theory.
    The US actually made an experiment in that regard in the late 60s or 70s (i m not sure, it was an anecdotal reference in a 'weapons of mass destruction' lecture i took on uni). They tasked a couple engineers with no background in nuclear engineering to make plans for a nuke. They had a budget and only publically accessible materials available. I dont remember if they designed a simple gun-type or an implosion device. However the bomb was then built by the US and tested. It worked flawlessly. So i dont find it hard to believe that even a (backwards) country like North Korea can develop and build Nukes 70 years after the US deployed them.
    Gun-type weapons are trivial to design and build. As long as you've got a critical mass and the collision between the two pieces of uranium is energetic enough, boom. The only hard part is obtaining the fissile material in the first place.

    Anyway, piece on that project you referenced: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...24/usa.science
    Plutonium bombs are a bit more complex... but as previously stated... even though it's a technological backwater it's not unsurprising to see the Norks progress faster than the US, USSR, UK, France, India and Pakistan before them. There's plenty of information on the open market for them to look at and they're being pretty aggressive with their testing programme.
    TRAPS ARE GAY!


  12. #832
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Also those two chaps in the '60s did design a plutonium implosion weapon.

  13. #833

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sarabando View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I know a few people who have built their own cars using garden workshops. Bad analogy.
    Nope, its a good analogy you just fail to understand it. I said complete on their own.
    Including the tools for it and including the machine tools to produce the tools. Everything. From scrap.
    No one has ever done this you are right. Let me just go back in time and tell Henry Ford it's impossible to have people build cars without robots.

    They are still a country of 25 odd million people. Only takes a few hundred people to build these things.
    It takes millions.

    Lets take the former DDR. They once wanted to become a high tech producer.
    They failed. Because their industrial base wasnt big enought to support a chip factory. A rather big rather industrialized country of 20 Million.

    You people completly underestimate the manufactoring chain necessary to even produce a fucking pen.
    http://news.sky.com/story/finally-af...rough-10726914
    yet tiny workshops throughout pakistan put out hand made weapons in the hundreds every week...
    I think you are underestimating what a small, skilled and motivated group can accomplish. The GDR failed because it was a communist shit hole (dont kill me Joe) where any one who was motivated hopped the wall and made a run for west Berlin.
    The brain drain was massive.
    Youre still there i suppose.
    ----


    North Korea seen moving ICBM-grade rocket towards west coast
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-n...-idUSKCN1BG081
    Watched a CBS interview yesterday (the actual airnig may be a day or two older) with a former CIA director about this topic. He mentioned that the CIA closely monitors NK's nuclear weapons development since the early 1990's.

    (A few Google queries later)

    Ah, here it is: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/michael...gen-bomb-test/.

    From TFA/I

    Quote Originally Posted by Former CIA chief Michael Morell
    "The U.S. intelligence community has been all over this program for the last 25 years," he said. "We've predicted accurately how it would evolve and why Kim Jong Un would want to do this. So there isn't anything that we've seen in the last, I'd say five years, that has been a surprise. It's all been predictable."

  14. #834
    Donor Miep's Avatar
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    Pretty good timeline
    When I see a bird that walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck id call it a duck.
    And if the bird denies to be a duck it is a russian duck.

  15. #835
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    http://www.38north.org/2017/09/aabrahamian090717/

    Fairly well written bit on the nonUS feelings toward what's been going on.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  16. #836
    rufuske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    http://www.38north.org/2017/09/aabrahamian090717/

    Fairly well written bit on the nonUS feelings toward what's been going on.
    8d chess, so much wining.

  17. #837

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    http://www.38north.org/2017/09/aabrahamian090717/

    Fairly well written bit on the nonUS feelings toward what's been going on.
    I'm confuse, why USA has bases in SKorea? If SKorea and Japan will not fight in case of strikes on NKorea, Nato will do:

    “The reckless behavior of North Korea is a global threat and requires a global response and that of course also includes NATO,” NATO head Jens Stoltenberg said in an interview with BBC television.

  18. #838
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    http://www.38north.org/2017/09/aabrahamian090717/

    Fairly well written bit on the nonUS feelings toward what's been going on.
    I'm confuse, why USA has bases in SKorea? If SKorea and Japan will not fight in case of strikes on NKorea, Nato will do:

    “The reckless behavior of North Korea is a global threat and requires a global response and that of course also includes NATO,” NATO head Jens Stoltenberg said in an interview with BBC television.
    you need a magnifying glass to see the percentage of people supporting a korean intervention in europe, especially considering what that would do with relation to trade with China.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  19. #839
    The Pube Whisperer Maximillian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    http://www.38north.org/2017/09/aabrahamian090717/

    Fairly well written bit on the nonUS feelings toward what's been going on.
    I'm confuse, why USA has bases in SKorea? If SKorea and Japan will not fight in case of strikes on NKorea, Nato will do:

    “The reckless behavior of North Korea is a global threat and requires a global response and that of course also includes NATO,” NATO head Jens Stoltenberg said in an interview with BBC television.
    From the ROK perspective a US presence is a 100% Guarantee that should NK attack the USA will be involved. It also tells NK that they cannot launch an invasion without engaging US forces.

    From the US perspective it gives them a strategic foothold right near both China and Russia. It maintains the ROK as a close ally and stops the ROK, Japan and other Pacific US allies from forming their own defense arrangements.

    Weirdly in suits China as well because thanks to US protection neither Japan nor the ROK has invested enough in defense to save themselves if China attacked them. The last thing China wants is regional powers with nukes and big militaries around the South China Sea. Plus dealing straight with the US on issues is easier and (until recently) predictable.

    NK could just as easily be yanking against China's chain as it is trying to piss off the USA. A lot of NK's recent actions have occurred on important days for the Chinese communist party. China sees NK as a good little puppet that it can let loose now and then to cause problems while China kept its hands clean. Little fatty may well be acting up to prove that he is his own man.

  20. #840

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    http://www.38north.org/2017/09/aabrahamian090717/

    Fairly well written bit on the nonUS feelings toward what's been going on.
    I'm confuse, why USA has bases in SKorea? If SKorea and Japan will not fight in case of strikes on NKorea, Nato will do:

    “The reckless behavior of North Korea is a global threat and requires a global response and that of course also includes NATO,” NATO head Jens Stoltenberg said in an interview with BBC television.
    you need a magnifying glass to see the percentage of people supporting a korean intervention in europe, especially considering what that would do with relation to trade with China.
    NATO will do what they need to do, under UN resolution umbrella, despite low public support ( remember Serbia 1999, Irak 2003, Libya 2010)
    I'm not sure hurting trade with China will be a bad thing.

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