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Thread: North Korean Nuclear Boogaloo

  1. #781
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    If you are trying, but pretending not to, you will be slower than if you are openly trying.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  2. #782
    Donor Tellenta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenta View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    How can Iran still be struggling, then? If anything they're less isolated and better educated.
    You forget that Iran had issues getting military grade nuclear material due to their computers being hacked?
    Someone shoulda hacked NK's too. Honestly. If that's all the difference.

    Isn't some sort of treaty in place, where they agree not to develop nukes and have inspectors and such? Might change the speed at which they develop nukes.
    You mean the one that started in 2015? I hope I don't have to explain that Iran's been trying longer than that.
    Uhhh... North Koreas nuclear program started way before 2015.

    As for hacking North Korea has the advantage of being a backwater shithole that has full control of its citizens movement and ability to communicate with anyone outside of the use of their mouth holes. So it's not as easy as infecting a few USB's and waiting for them to be used at work.
    Last edited by Tellenta; September 3 2017 at 03:48:46 PM.

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  4. #784
    Rakshasa The Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Most peaceful way to solve the current situation.

    And here people are thinking Donald Trump is a threat to world peace... amazing
    Are you an engineer? -- Quack

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
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  6. #786
    Frug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenta View Post
    Uhhh... North Koreas nuclear program started way before 2015.
    The treaty. The treaty started in 2015. Dorvil blamed Iran's failures to reach the level that Nkorea has apparently reached on the treaty. The treaty has only existed since 2015 and even if we assume they have been following it, it doesn't cover all the previous years of apparently minimal advancement.

    Iran got hacked and has had the Israelis murdering their nuclear scientists since long before the ban. That's obviously a hand in it. Still, for Best Korea to suddenly have this capability is suspicious and to brush it off as "well it's not 1970 any more" only goes so far. I think they got help. I also don't think it really matters who. China/Pakistan/Russia, whatever. I wouldn't see value in reprimanding them for doing it, but for curiosity's sake I'd love to know who and why.
    Last edited by Frug; September 3 2017 at 06:54:46 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
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  7. #787

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    Most experts believe they have not had any help, apart from AQ Khan early on, buts thats hardly relevant anymore.

    The reason Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapon is because it actually does fear sanctions and so does not want to openly build one. That rules out large scale development programs like NK's, and especially testing, as that tends to be pretty visible. It is however likely (and quite possibly their entire goal) that they have build up enough knowledge and precursor technologies that they would be able to build one very quickly would they decide to actually start a full scale program.

  8. #788
    Frug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MortyM View Post
    The reason Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapon is because it actually does fear sanctions and so does not want to openly build one.
    Haven't I been pointing out that they were under sanctions and didn't have a treaty to set that aside until 2015?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
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  9. #789

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MortyM View Post
    The reason Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapon is because it actually does fear sanctions and so does not want to openly build one.
    Haven't I been pointing out that they were under sanctions and didn't have a treaty to set that aside until 2015?
    What? You think they were not watched before? That there was no threat of more sanctions? Do you think the IAEA has not been in the country before 2015?

    I don't understand what you are trying to say. Are you really arguing that before 2015 Iran was as isolated as North Korea, and could pursue nuclear weapons with the same 'freedom' as NK?

    Edit: maybe this a good place to start if you're really interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_a...ss_destruction

  10. #790
    Frug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MortyM View Post
    What? You think they were not watched before? That there was no threat of more sanctions? Do you think the IAEA has not been in the country before 2015?
    All of these apply to NK as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by MortyM View Post
    I don't understand what you are trying to say.
    I'm not sure how to make it more clear, sorry. I'm not sure what part you aren't getting.

    Are you really arguing that before 2015 Iran was as isolated as North Korea, and could pursue nuclear weapons with the same 'freedom' as NK?
    ... they were less isolated but still trying to pursue nukes. As far as I know they have better educated people and better equipment in general. Being less isolated makes things easier if you're putting forth the "it's not 1970 any more" argument. I really don't know what's so confusing about all of this but ok. Just make your point instead of going on like this, can't you just say "they were more concerned so they didn't try as hard" instead of this bullshit but whatever, if you didn't want to talk about it why'd you respond?
    Last edited by Frug; September 3 2017 at 08:30:47 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  11. #791
    Donor Miep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MortyM View Post
    What? You think they were not watched before? That there was no threat of more sanctions? Do you think the IAEA has not been in the country before 2015?
    All of these apply to NK as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by MortyM View Post
    I don't understand what you are trying to say.
    I'm not sure how to make it more clear, sorry. I'm not sure what part you aren't getting.

    Are you really arguing that before 2015 Iran was as isolated as North Korea, and could pursue nuclear weapons with the same 'freedom' as NK?
    ... they were less isolated but still trying to pursue nukes. As far as I know they have better educated people and better equipment in general. Being less isolated makes things easier if you're putting forth the "it's not 1970 any more" argument. I really don't know what's so confusing about all of this but ok. Just make your point instead of going on like this, can't you just say "they were more concerned so they didn't try as hard" instead of this bullshit but whatever, if you didn't want to talk about it why'd you respond?

    Morty is correct, your just talking out of your ass.
    When I see a bird that walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck id call it a duck.
    And if the bird denies to be a duck it is a russian duck.

  12. #792
    Lowa [NSN]'s Avatar
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    Kim has pretty much drawn a line in the sand (land?) and is getting ready to cross it - in one way or the other.
    This suddenly got a lot more dangerous no matter how you look at it, I'm frankly concerned as something really needs to be done now, he simply cant be allowed to continue this.

    If China tells him, like really tells him, and perhaps more his Generals, that "this shit stops now, hand over the nukes or else" or something a long those lines, any educated guesses* reported on the chances of Kim/NK listening and complying?


    *by educated guesses I mean not FHC screechers.
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  13. #793
    Paradox's Avatar
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    Remember Pakistan developed nuclear weapons more or less on their own, with a few stolen ideas and blueprints here and there and nobody ever did anything about that


    Poland treats me like shit and I hate them as a result of it

  14. #794
    evil edna's Avatar
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    Pakistan is a rational actor compared to best korea though, and was pre-9/11 big US buddies

  15. #795
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    According to Iran, and the IAEA, they haven't been actively working on a nuclear weapon since 2009.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34988952

    Iran took limited steps towards developing a nuclear bomb in the past, the global nuclear watchdog has said.

    But the report from the IAEA said the efforts did not go beyond planning and testing of basic components.

    Iran's Deputy Foreign Minister Abbas Araqchi said the findings confirmed that Tehran's nuclear programme was peaceful.

    The report was a condition of this year's landmark deal between Iran and six world powers.

    The July agreement involves the lifting of sanctions in return for Iran curbing sensitive nuclear activities.

    In its report, the IAEA said most of the "co-ordinated" work by Iran took place before 2003, with some activities continuing up to 2009.

    But it added "these activities did not advance beyond feasibility and scientific studies, and the acquisition of certain relevant technical competences and capabilities".
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  16. #796
    Caldrion Dosto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    According to Iran, and the IAEA, they haven't been actively working on a nuclear weapon since 2009.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34988952

    Iran took limited steps towards developing a nuclear bomb in the past, the global nuclear watchdog has said.

    But the report from the IAEA said the efforts did not go beyond planning and testing of basic components.

    Iran's Deputy Foreign Minister Abbas Araqchi said the findings confirmed that Tehran's nuclear programme was peaceful.

    The report was a condition of this year's landmark deal between Iran and six world powers.

    The July agreement involves the lifting of sanctions in return for Iran curbing sensitive nuclear activities.

    In its report, the IAEA said most of the "co-ordinated" work by Iran took place before 2003, with some activities continuing up to 2009.

    But it added "these activities did not advance beyond feasibility and scientific studies, and the acquisition of certain relevant technical competences and capabilities".

    If im not mistaken there was a Fatwa against weapons of mass destruction, although i have no idea if that is important for the Iranians or not.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.8a6a8920603b

  17. #797
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    Since it was from the Iranian Supreme Leader, I would presume it carries weight. It sounds like it may have been a face saving measure for the Iranian public, but as long as they aren't developing nukes. . .

    Since they are being inspected, theoretically they would have a hard time developing in secret while claiming they don't want nuclear weapons.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  18. #798
    Donor Miep's Avatar
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    When I see a bird that walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck id call it a duck.
    And if the bird denies to be a duck it is a russian duck.

  19. #799
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    I'm not quite sure why people find it so impossible to believe North Korea could develop nuclear weapons independently. It may be a totalitarian, famine ravaged international pariah but that doesn't make it impossible for it to educate scientists and have successful engineering programs. Especially when they've prioritised the fight against the US over feeding their citizens
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  20. #800
    Donor Miep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I'm not quite sure why people find it so impossible to believe North Korea could develop nuclear weapons independently. It may be a totalitarian, famine ravaged international pariah but that doesn't make it impossible for it to educate scientists and have successful engineering programs. Especially when they've prioritised the fight against the US over feeding their citizens
    You need a broad industrial base for a nuclear and missile programm. The Norkies dont have it.
    Try to build a car all on yourself. Wont work in a lifetime even if you know what to do in theory.
    Last edited by Miep; September 4 2017 at 08:07:31 AM.
    When I see a bird that walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck id call it a duck.
    And if the bird denies to be a duck it is a russian duck.

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