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Thread: Antivirus is shit, everything is compromised, etc etc (Cybersecurity thread)

  1. #821
    Cosmin's Avatar
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    That one never fails to bring a smile to my face. Also, given the current authentication methods (fingerprint, face scan), the amount of ways of authentication by malevolent 3rd parties have reached an all time potential gruesome.
    Guns make the news, science doesn't.

  2. #822
    Donor Spaztick's Avatar
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    Isn't some of the face scan stuff a little harder to get through with the 3D aspect of it (like for apple's faceid using the TrueDepth cameras)? Did someone finally bypass it?

  3. #823
    Mashie Saldana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaztick View Post
    Isn't some of the face scan stuff a little harder to get through with the 3D aspect of it (like for apple's faceid using the TrueDepth cameras)? Did someone finally bypass it?
    Well I'm sure it is working perfect with a gun to the back of the head of the face owner.
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  4. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaztick View Post
    Isn't some of the face scan stuff a little harder to get through with the 3D aspect of it (like for apple's faceid using the TrueDepth cameras)? Did someone finally bypass it?
    Well I'm sure it is working perfect with a gun to the back of the head of the face owner.
    Basically this. I'm not keen on future iterations where the phone scans your retina, I'd rather be murdered than have an eye poked out or smth similar
    Guns make the news, science doesn't.

  5. #825
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaztick View Post
    Isn't some of the face scan stuff a little harder to get through with the 3D aspect of it (like for apple's faceid using the TrueDepth cameras)? Did someone finally bypass it?
    Well I'm sure it is working perfect with a gun to the back of the head of the face owner.
    Basically this. I'm not keen on future iterations where the phone scans your retina, I'd rather be murdered than have an eye poked out or smth similar
    Fortunately for you, dead eyes (and hands) don't work.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  6. #826

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaztick View Post
    Isn't some of the face scan stuff a little harder to get through with the 3D aspect of it (like for apple's faceid using the TrueDepth cameras)? Did someone finally bypass it?
    Well I'm sure it is working perfect with a gun to the back of the head of the face owner.
    Basically this. I'm not keen on future iterations where the phone scans your retina, I'd rather be murdered than have an eye poked out or smth similar
    Fortunately for you, dead eyes (and hands) don't work.
    Not sure about this.

    First thing the Chaos Computer Club did when Germany introduced biometric IDs in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 was to get hold of the minister of interior's fingerprint, reproduced and published it and demoed how to identifiy yourself as him with that. They kept repeating (and showcasing) it with various other politicans, also demonstrating how to "clone" the eye's iris.

  7. #827

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    Funnily enough technology has advanced a mite since 2008.

  8. #828
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    I'm curious, is it the iris that thing scans or does it go deeper? Retina is all the way in the back of the eye. Also, irises and retinas should both be unique to each person, but scanning a retina may be a bit too complicated (if the pupil constricts from too much light you can't get a read, etc).

    Do fingerprint readers scan for a pulse? They could (plenty of apps that use the back camera to measure your pulse as a pulseoximeter).
    Guns make the news, science doesn't.

  9. #829
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    Newer fingerprint readers use the same electrostatic charge that touchscreens use, they are just way more accurate so they can detect the ridges and bumps in super high def. Dead skin, rubber, plastic, etc doesn't have the charge so it won't read it (just like a touchscreen doesn't).

    You can totally trick them with the right materials, but a dead hand is not one of those materials.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  10. #830
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    I'm curious, is it the iris that thing scans or does it go deeper? Retina is all the way in the back of the eye. Also, irises and retinas should both be unique to each person, but scanning a retina may be a bit too complicated (if the pupil constricts from too much light you can't get a read, etc).
    I tried out a iris scanner back in the 90s that worked at a distance of 3 feet. Took 15-20 seconds to get a good image. At the time, they could be fooled by dead tissue. IIRC, retina scanners required you to be within inches, and were not fooled by dead tissue.

    Do fingerprint readers scan for a pulse? They could (plenty of apps that use the back camera to measure your pulse as a pulseoximeter).
    They might. Some look for a temp within a certain range (the ones at my work will not accept cold hands, which is frustrating in the winter).
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  11. #831
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Funnily enough technology has advanced a mite since 2008.
    :shocked:
    meh

  12. #832

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Funnily enough technology has advanced a mite since 2008.
    True dat, especially for hacking techniques.

  13. #833
    Donor Spaztick's Avatar
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    10 years is an eternity in tech time, but I'm sure the day tech is announced people are already trying to engineer ways to break it for fun. Maybe a small electrical charge on a dead hand would work for a fingerprint. And of course a retina is just a fingerprint buried in the back of your eyeball.

    I could see a physical 2FA happening where you need your face and fingerprint on your phone to unlock it. I think for most people one is secure enough, but for the extra paranoid it's another grade up on the security/convenience tradeoff towards security. Without you know, using a password.

  14. #834
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    The problem with biometrics has always been: you can't change them when you want to (i.e. when duplicated); and they can change when you don't want them to (i.e. injury).
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  15. #835
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    The problem with biometrics has always been: you can't change them when you want to (i.e. when duplicated); and they can change when you don't want them to (i.e. injury).
    I would imagine that if your fingers are cut/blown off or your face is so disfigured your phone doesn't recognize you, you have bigger problems than your phone not being unlocked via biometrics (assuming you are still capable of typing a password).

    OTOH, my phone did not recognize me after I shaved my beard, so there's that. Luckily you can add "another" face to unlock it, so now it does a decent job whether I have a beard or not.
    Guns make the news, science doesn't.

  16. #836
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    How much difference do you think is acceptable when doing finger-print matching, to be worth a damn for authentication & to make forgery non-trivial?!
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  17. #837
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    The other issue at least for decent sized businesses is the more records you have the less secure it is.

    For your phone, you have what, 4 fingers?

    For our work thumb scanner we have say 150 staff with at least 2 scans each. That's 300 scans minimum. Ignoring the ex staff that never got removed (which we only audit about every 6 months), any misread scan of some random person has a chance of being a close enough match to an existing scan.. Looking though the scanner logs we see a misread rate of about 30% on our main scanner (it's old). We have also observed it reading prints as the wrong person..

    I don't trust our scanners but the boss doesn't like swipe cards so that's what we have.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  18. #838
    Donor Spaztick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    30%
    jesus christ

  19. #839
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaztick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    30%
    jesus christ
    By that I mean 1 in 3 reads is incorrect usually resulting in it not matching anything and the user having to try again.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  20. #840
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    The other issue at least for decent sized businesses is the more records you have the less secure it is.

    For your phone, you have what, 4 fingers?
    My 6S Plus used to be able to store up to 6 or 7 fingers. My current XS Max can only do two faces, which leads me to believe there is a storage issue - or the data is simply too big to fit more. Apple says it's due to it being designed to be a "one user only" way of authentication but that kinda sounds like BS. Not that anyone should ever have a reason to ever access your phone (I never get that "I wanna see your phone" from friends - or worse, girlfriends - or family). It's a damn phone, if I want to show you something on it is because I can't do it otherwise, but other than that hands off pls (I hold the same attitude towards computers, you want to use my computer, here is an account for you only, obviously user-level not admin).
    Guns make the news, science doesn't.

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