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Thread: The Shitposting Thread

  1. #7181
    Cosmin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snottus View Post
    - Journal Entry 13-09#/Jx-011 -

    God Damit....

    Find my first cate camp and blob, slide through beautifully without getting caught.
    Warp off to an asteroid field and then immediately warp to a structure, not checking what it is (thought it was the station I was headed for).
    Land near an unknown field close enough to de-cloak me and am immediately blapped by the nearby tower....

    - End Journal of a NullNoob -
    Obviously have different overview settings for GTFO and what not, don't warp to moons or structures, but you already knew that

    That aside, I'm looking into popping back and see what's what, do a bit of explo, but can't really be bothered as my play time has been severely limited for years now
    Guns make the news, science doesn't.

  2. #7182
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snottus View Post
    - Journal Entry 13-09#/Jx-011 -

    God Damit....

    Find my first cate camp and blob, slide through beautifully without getting caught.
    Warp off to an asteroid field and then immediately warp to a structure, not checking what it is (thought it was the station I was headed for).
    Land near an unknown field close enough to de-cloak me and am immediately blapped by the nearby tower....

    - End Journal of a NullNoob -
    Obviously have different overview settings for GTFO and what not, don't warp to moons or structures, but you already knew that

    That aside, I'm looking into popping back and see what's what, do a bit of explo, but can't really be bothered as my play time has been severely limited for years now
    heh yeah I was in the wrong overview tab, but so focused on doing things right I didn't notice...

    I too have limited time and thusly spend most of it exploring. The Agency and Exoplanets is actually quite good imo, perfect for casuals.

  3. #7183
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post

    Also c) what Malc calls the optimisation process isn't a natural given for humans, on the contrary.
    Not true. Or, rather, not true in any way which matters. Decisions about process and organisation and doctrine aren't made by ordinary "humans" (btw you let the mask slip there a bit, Virtbot). They're made by the few that get put - or shoved - into a place where they make decisions for the group. There's no way to prevent this emergent organisational effect unless CCP are prepared to actively ban - and police - 3rd party communication, and obviously they're not going to do that.

    There's a pretty simple evolutionary process at work here: groups which don't allow this to happen operate at hugely decreased effectiveness and are rapidly displaced or absorbed by those who do.

    If you think there's a viable counter mechanism, by all means post one, using actual game mechanics and nouns when you do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
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  4. #7184

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    If you think there's a viable counter mechanism, by all means post one, using actual game mechanics and nouns when you do so.
    Hmm...

    Implement the equivalent of weather? Random events like "fog" that prevents anything more than some distance away (30km, 150km, etc.) from showing up on the overview. Or "mud" that applies 10% to 50% web effects depending on the size of the ship. "Lightning" that has a 10% chance of ECM'ing ships every couple minutes. Basically, random events that cannot be anticipated and optimized for? Of course, "clear weather" would be the most common situation.

    Terrain might be an effective feature too? Even a hundred Machs anchored on an FC don't really have issues with bumping - but terrain that requires ships to spread out, or limits the number of ships in a particular location, would limit the ability to anchor up and be an F1 monkey.

    I've no clue how much programming effort either would require, or whether they would really benefit the game at all.

  5. #7185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eli Stan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    If you think there's a viable counter mechanism, by all means post one, using actual game mechanics and nouns when you do so.
    Hmm...

    Implement the equivalent of weather? Random events like "fog" that prevents anything more than some distance away (30km, 150km, etc.) from showing up on the overview. Or "mud" that applies 10% to 50% web effects depending on the size of the ship. "Lightning" that has a 10% chance of ECM'ing ships every couple minutes. Basically, random events that cannot be anticipated and optimized for? Of course, "clear weather" would be the most common situation.

    Terrain might be an effective feature too? Even a hundred Machs anchored on an FC don't really have issues with bumping - but terrain that requires ships to spread out, or limits the number of ships in a particular location, would limit the ability to anchor up and be an F1 monkey.

    I've no clue how much programming effort either would require, or whether they would really benefit the game at all.
    How would that positively select for kitchen-sink fleets?
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  6. #7186
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    Or wormhole projecting some of it's effects on to the K-space system


  7. #7187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Or wormhole projecting some of it's effects on to the K-space system
    "Did we get the effect we want that makes this system better for krabbing? No? Ok, roll the hole. Neat, that only took 2 minutes, I wonder what tomorrow will bring?"
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  8. #7188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Or wormhole projecting some of it's effects on to the K-space system
    "Did we get the effect we want that makes this system better for krabbing? No? Ok, roll the hole. Neat, that only took 2 minutes, I wonder what tomorrow will bring?"
    Well yeah but you could be in the middle of a dread brawl when a pulsar opens or something

    And people might have to switch fleet doctrine if there's a wrong effect in system


  9. #7189

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    How would that positively select for kitchen-sink fleets?
    Kitchen sink, being just random ships people have on hand? It wouldn't. A more diverse selection of different ship types, each type with a different role, different positioning, different tactics, without necessarily an ideal composition? I think it'd promote that.

  10. #7190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eli Stan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    How would that positively select for kitchen-sink fleets?
    Kitchen sink, being just random ships people have on hand? It wouldn't. A more diverse selection of different ship types, each type with a different role, different positioning, different tactics, without necessarily an ideal composition? I think it'd promote that.
    But "F1 pusher" doctrines are already pretty diverse these days. Even the simplest fleet will have have a dozen ship types in it, the ratios of which can be trivially adjusted, and the fits also if the FCs have discovered the majesty of saved fittings and the local market is remotely well supplied. We just use refit packs.
    Basically, all you're doing is adding another layer of process. Or not even that, really; just reinforcing an existing one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  11. #7191
    Super Ponerator Global Moderator Evelgrivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Eli Stan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    How would that positively select for kitchen-sink fleets?
    Kitchen sink, being just random ships people have on hand? It wouldn't. A more diverse selection of different ship types, each type with a different role, different positioning, different tactics, without necessarily an ideal composition? I think it'd promote that.
    But "F1 pusher" doctrines are already pretty diverse these days. Even the simplest fleet will have have a dozen ship types in it, the ratios of which can be trivially adjusted, and the fits also if the FCs have discovered the majesty of saved fittings and the local market is remotely well supplied. We just use refit packs.
    Basically, all you're doing is adding another layer of process. Or not even that, really; just reinforcing an existing one.
    The consequence of growth in specialization is the slow decline of generalization. Fleets are more interesting in structure, but increasingly specialized ships can make it harder to pick up and go than it used to be. There are trade-offs in everything.

  12. #7192
    When in a fleet you can't orbit or keep in range any other fleet members.

    That solves one problem.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue
    Keep digging your hole my retard. Can't read + can't understand why minmaxing bullshit and Play-to-Win is cancer in online games = a dumbfuck is you


  13. #7193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evelgrivion View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Eli Stan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    How would that positively select for kitchen-sink fleets?
    Kitchen sink, being just random ships people have on hand? It wouldn't. A more diverse selection of different ship types, each type with a different role, different positioning, different tactics, without necessarily an ideal composition? I think it'd promote that.
    But "F1 pusher" doctrines are already pretty diverse these days. Even the simplest fleet will have have a dozen ship types in it, the ratios of which can be trivially adjusted, and the fits also if the FCs have discovered the majesty of saved fittings and the local market is remotely well supplied. We just use refit packs.
    Basically, all you're doing is adding another layer of process. Or not even that, really; just reinforcing an existing one.
    The consequence of growth in specialization is the slow decline of generalization. Fleets are more interesting in structure, but increasingly specialized ships can make it harder to pick up and go than it used to be. There are trade-offs in everything.
    Yeah but what people in this subthread are effectively asking for is for it not to matter what ship to bring. The only way for that to happen is for there to be only one ship type.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  14. #7194

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    We just want the other dudes to fly like idiots so that we can own hundreds of them with a 10 person fleet.

  15. #7195
    Fara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Evelgrivion View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Eli Stan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    How would that positively select for kitchen-sink fleets?
    Kitchen sink, being just random ships people have on hand? It wouldn't. A more diverse selection of different ship types, each type with a different role, different positioning, different tactics, without necessarily an ideal composition? I think it'd promote that.
    But "F1 pusher" doctrines are already pretty diverse these days. Even the simplest fleet will have have a dozen ship types in it, the ratios of which can be trivially adjusted, and the fits also if the FCs have discovered the majesty of saved fittings and the local market is remotely well supplied. We just use refit packs.
    Basically, all you're doing is adding another layer of process. Or not even that, really; just reinforcing an existing one.
    The consequence of growth in specialization is the slow decline of generalization. Fleets are more interesting in structure, but increasingly specialized ships can make it harder to pick up and go than it used to be. There are trade-offs in everything.
    Yeah but what people in this subthread are effectively asking for is for it not to matter what ship to bring. The only way for that to happen is for there to be only one ship type.
    only retards are actually asking that. much like they're asking for more mining content with moon mining

  16. #7196
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post

    Also c) what Malc calls the optimisation process isn't a natural given for humans, on the contrary.
    Not true. Or, rather, not true in any way which matters. Decisions about process and organisation and doctrine aren't made by ordinary "humans" (btw you let the mask slip there a bit, Virtbot). They're made by the few that get put - or shoved - into a place where they make decisions for the group. There's no way to prevent this emergent organisational effect unless CCP are prepared to actively ban - and police - 3rd party communication, and obviously they're not going to do that.

    There's a pretty simple evolutionary process at work here: groups which don't allow this to happen operate at hugely decreased effectiveness and are rapidly displaced or absorbed by those who do.

    If you think there's a viable counter mechanism, by all means post one, using actual game mechanics and nouns when you do so.
    So the leaders decide for the group? Only the leaders? There's no dependancies, interactions, pressure variables, circumstances or conditions? There's no groupthink? There's leaders without perception challenges? Without buttons or triggers? No vulnerabilities or cravings?

    It's not that simple. But that has absolutely zero to do with 3d party communications. A leader isn't magic, it's just another human in the mix.

    A leader function is nothing but a decision point. There is no correlation between leadership as an independant entity making decisions within. Yes, there are circumstances where this is possible, but that alone demonstrates that there's also another end of the scale there. Never confuse decision points with decision makers. The human leader can be as relevant as irrelevant regardless of him or her making decisions. He or she can be the culminating of effects piling up, the result of clarity or confusion, and so forth.

    Ergo, decision making processes are human processes and thus are and remain subject to interaction, impact and influence - both through variables, mechanisms and conditions. Now if you like to dabble in this field, here's the key element: decisions are derivative. Made by humans through human exposure to the three "i"'s of impact, influence, interaction.


    But you are correct here in one regard, which is the crux of it all. It is equally capable in principle of driving status quo as it is in stimulating conflict. When different types of organisation interact, there is a rather darwinistic effect. Exactly.

    What happens when organisations sharing the same operational mold interact?

    Another question: who in EVE controls those three "i"'s?

    Here's another more basic one: do we want a continuous evolutionary dynamic? If so, what does that mean for the one in control of it all?
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  17. #7197
    Fara's Avatar
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    yeah same tbh

  18. #7198
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fara View Post
    yeah same tbh
    Yeah, i've kind of been in the same way tbh.

  19. #7199
    GiDiYi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fara View Post
    yeah same tbh
    Yeah, i've kind of been in the same way tbh.
    Signed.

  20. #7200
    Erm what the fuck are you 2 even talking about.

    Virt instead of posting war and peace then asking some questions at the end. Please just say what you feel.

    But keep it to 5 sentences a post and no more 3 syllabul words thanks.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue
    Keep digging your hole my retard. Can't read + can't understand why minmaxing bullshit and Play-to-Win is cancer in online games = a dumbfuck is you


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