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Thread: The Shitposting Thread

  1. #7121

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fara View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Back when roaming used to be a thing wormholes were great, got back home via them so many times when the Blob(TM) camped the fleet in a dead-end.
    The death of roaming was the death of eve. Blob up and sit on titan for an hour or two is AIDS

    Roaming stopped being popular because there's less bad people around. Roaming, you generally catch bad players. I've done about 1k kills in small gang warfare or solo roaming, when you catch less and less because there's things like intel channels or EFT that got popular you stop doing it because flying around for 2h not getting shit or just very few small fish is only fun for so long.


    Roaming was fun for good players because they cared about optimizing fittings and tryharded enough that it was easy to pwn noobs that didn't even know what a fitting tool or nanohacs were.
    Honestly, I think this is the biggest issue all around. There are very few people in this game who are still willing and able to be dumb. Yes, you get the occasional ALOD or whatever, but for the most part a few smart people figure stuff out, then everyone just copies what they do. This applies from solo up to coalition sov level warfare. Since the dumb little fish are so few and far between now the smarter/bigger fish are too scared to do things they used to do.

  2. #7122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    We roamed around syndicate loads when we were the bad ones. Bumped into loads of other bads too. It was great. We did it for the fun of the fight. And the more elite smaller gangs would come kill us. For the same reason. Bads nowadays sit around waiting, and might camp a gate but wouldn't actually jump it.

    If you think the game isn't filled with dumb players you've not been paying attention to the blob fleets

    2008 bads are a lot worse tbqh. No eft, no doctrine no fitting optimization "bring a BS that can shoot 200km" kinda bad.


    Like, its not even a contest.
    Last edited by Fara; July 14 2017 at 08:37:26 PM.

  3. #7123
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CivilWars View Post
    There are very few people in this game who are still willing and able to be dumb.
    Welcome to the human race ..........
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  4. #7124
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    So basically this loops round to what Virt was saying earlier, the CCP need to reintroduce obscurity to the game in order to allow bads to be the bads that are so fundamentally needed for all the playstyles, from sov to trusolo
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  5. #7125
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    Quote Originally Posted by CivilWars View Post

    Honestly, I think this is the biggest issue all around. There are very few people in this game who are still willing and able to be dumb. Yes, you get the occasional ALOD or whatever, but for the most part a few smart people figure stuff out, then everyone just copies what they do. This applies from solo up to coalition sov level warfare. Since the dumb little fish are so few and far between now the smarter/bigger fish are too scared to do things they used to do.
    So tell me something already.

  6. #7126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    So basically this loops round to what Virt was saying earlier, the CCP need to reintroduce obscurity to the game in order to allow bads to be the bads that are so fundamentally needed for all the playstyles, from sov to trusolo
    Well, things can be a lot better if players had to actually pilot their own ship in fights. Having a couple hundred people do exactly what a fleet commander tells you, fly exactly what they want with the exact fit and everyone shoot the same guy is terrible for the game. Great for a handful of good players who can control swaths of bad players on strings like a puppet master. As soon as people have to start being their own person, you will get tons of fun and crazy fights. But you won't hear any large alliance leadership pushing for that. They want to keep the mindless drones just that - mindless.

  7. #7127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlona Sky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    So basically this loops round to what Virt was saying earlier, the CCP need to reintroduce obscurity to the game in order to allow bads to be the bads that are so fundamentally needed for all the playstyles, from sov to trusolo
    Well, things can be a lot better if players had to actually pilot their own ship in fights. Having a couple hundred people do exactly what a fleet commander tells you, fly exactly what they want with the exact fit and everyone shoot the same guy is terrible for the game. Great for a handful of good players who can control swaths of bad players on strings like a puppet master. As soon as people have to start being their own person, you will get tons of fun and crazy fights. But you won't hear any large alliance leadership pushing for that. They want to keep the mindless drones just that - mindless.
    comments like this is what got us aegis sov.

    If you want manual piloting just stay in small scale, thats where the more competent pilots are. Dont impose a gameplay style on everyone because you'd think it'd be fun. Fleet fights isn't what is the problem in eve nowadays, it's a lack thereof because of meaningful objectives that people want to fight over. Not because F1 pushers dont like to press F1 anymore.

  8. #7128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fara View Post
    Fleet fights isn't what is the problem in eve nowadays, it's a lack thereof because of meaningful objectives that people want to fight over. Not because F1 pushers dont like to press F1 anymore.
    I am inclined to agree with this.

    I would qualify myself as a F1 pusher with a basic understanding of what goes on around me and no more. I don't want to be more, because I play this game for fun and relaxation. I don't envy our FC's who have to be on 3 different comms and god knows how many discords, chat channels etc. to coordinate stuff while herding one or more bag of kittens that is the fleet. I am very grateful that they do it, though.

    Since we went back on mini deployment to Syndicate our main content driver (as always) has been pos again. CCP's about to remove them. I don't know what remains after the removal of them to have real and regular engagements about. And no, engaging Citadels in their current form ain't exactly a fun thing to do. But I am repeating myself here.

  9. #7129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fara View Post

    comments like this is what got us aegis sov.

    If you want manual piloting just stay in small scale, thats where the more competent pilots are. Dont impose a gameplay style on everyone because you'd think it'd be fun. Fleet fights isn't what is the problem in eve nowadays, it's a lack thereof because of meaningful objectives that people want to fight over. Not because F1 pushers dont like to press F1 anymore.
    What dont you get?

  10. #7130
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiDiYi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fara View Post
    Fleet fights isn't what is the problem in eve nowadays, it's a lack thereof because of meaningful objectives that people want to fight over. Not because F1 pushers dont like to press F1 anymore.
    I am inclined to agree with this.

    I would qualify myself as a F1 pusher with a basic understanding of what goes on around me and no more. I don't want to be more, because I play this game for fun and relaxation. I don't envy our FC's who have to be on 3 different comms and god knows how many discords, chat channels etc. to coordinate stuff while herding one or more bag of kittens that is the fleet. I am very grateful that they do it, though.

    Since we went back on mini deployment to Syndicate our main content driver (as always) has been pos again. CCP's about to remove them. I don't know what remains after the removal of them to have real and regular engagements about. And no, engaging Citadels in their current form ain't exactly a fun thing to do. But I am repeating myself here.
    this so much.

    pos is the only bastion of fun and low effort content (for med+ groups). If they have monetary value, its an incentive for both attacker and defender to care and they require manageable effort and vulnerability by the attacker. Both sides have to somewhat commit, i.e fight or blueball but not chasing ecm bursting ceptors around or falcons or w/e. Also, both the attacker and defender have ways to game the timer outcome with alarm clocking or delaying the ref timer etc etc.

    Pos are amazing fight objectives, unfortunately managing them and setting them up is worse than aids. Making a smart money moon system, that doesnt put 80% of a resource in one corner of the map +price cap via alchemy is probably the bestest short term solution to help incentivize conflict on all scales. Unfortunately all the gutmenschen think its worse than aids because they're unable to see past the flaws of old systems of the sort.

  11. #7131
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    White picket fences. POS itself won't go for quite a while yet. And once they do, you are supposed to do the same around raitaru and astrahus setups. Cause of "but it has monetary and emotional value so it's the same and asset safety saves the day anyways with a touch of old style haters gonna hate anyways so be fearless and fucking ignore it". Pos for moon mining you're supposed to be happy about their disappearance because the idea is that you get miners to farm for isk. And if lowsec natives stop sucking those tits it's apparently a bonus for an overheating economy, and if they innovate and become the exact same thing as in null it's also fine because it creates more segregation (wtf) while providing yet more room for maturing alpha's to go and play in - while the human demographics actually decreases but alright.


    It's that New Eden can't get tourists from outside, or I'd start to wonder about certain developmental parallels with Iceland increasingly relying on shiny & tourism and half expect the virtual version to follow the same road. But hey, maybe CCP can sell Zoo style pay-per-view to watch those weird eve players with betting & sponsorships like gladiators. :P
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  12. #7132
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    Impressive bitterness there.

    Personally I'm a ok with the new moon mining concepts, because they involve ships undocked and active. Can't be arsed and expect to afk control your moons with the threat of a largely unsubbed superfleet? Too bad, fuck you, have a tissue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  13. #7133
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Impressive bitterness there.

    Personally I'm a ok with the new moon mining concepts, because they involve ships undocked and active. Can't be arsed and expect to afk control your moons with the threat of a largely unsubbed superfleet? Too bad, fuck you, have a tissue.
    Oh no, I like the idea. It's the thinking behind the approach that I maintain doubts. Don't confuse my perspective on that "fuck your fear & lazy ass and undock" niche (good) with the general development of copypasta organisations throughout New Eden (not so good).

    Let me put it this way, what are the differences these days - besides the marketing - between player organisations. There's a tier of professionalism, one of aptitude, another of finance, one of logistics, but that is about it. Methodology, focus, mentality, more and more gearing towards the same easily managed little kingdoms. Which is fine, if this is what CCP wants, but that will mean that they have to start working towards replacing engines of destructive behaviour, with engines of consumptive behaviour. Oh dear, every change of the past two years has carried an element of that :-)

    I know, it's not an easy question to answer, because people always first react from their own perspective, which is by default subjective and full of blind spots. Maybe it is me, but I don't really see real empire builders anymore, I don't see miners with pitchforks or wannabee socialists or bleeding heart roaming trailer trash out there. Yes, everyone has a carefully constructed identity, flag, story, but that's not the same thing. Before you say it, yes, a big part of that comes down to conscious choice of players and their organisations. A big part of that is cumulative development really. But increasingly there's less push to do different things, more push to stay within well stratified niches based on mechanical design.

    I know, obscurity, room to be bad, room for doing stuff where CCP has to follow players rather than preemptively curb & distract them. It all just strikes me as a packaging process of readily consumable quick fixes with cheap marketing for the bling and zero story.


    Fun thing doing the Alpha rounds today. Most common feedback: so wtf is the Agency? What's the story? Where's the tale?
    Well, there is none. Just do it. Be a good little ST:O player and repeat the same without meaning or achieving much of anything until you see blue in the face :P
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  14. #7134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Impressive bitterness there.

    Personally I'm a ok with the new moon mining concepts, because they involve ships undocked and active. Can't be arsed and expect to afk control your moons with the threat of a largely unsubbed superfleet? Too bad, fuck you, have a tissue.
    It wouldn't be a problem per se, but mining is probably the worst ACTIVITY I've ever seen in any online game and I played that shitty air buccaneers game. Also your argument is largely invalid with phoebe JR restrictions. In the past, yes PL owned like 80% of lowsec moons because of superblob. In 2017 thats not possible anymore, that alone is reason to try it again. Can always split between active/passive but I wouldn't want such a valid alliance income to be restricted to the dullest pve activity ever tbqh.

    IMHO there is room for passive moon mining, because it benefits pvp outfits over ~blob outfits~ (test, goons, whoever is large and has a large quantity of bears). PvP outfits (like BL) are much more prone to drama and conflict, something we need more of not less. In any case, the most important thing is to not lock it behind the horribleness that are citadels in its current state.

  15. #7135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Impressive bitterness there.

    Personally I'm a ok with the new moon mining concepts, because they involve ships undocked and active. Can't be arsed and expect to afk control your moons with the threat of a largely unsubbed superfleet? Too bad, fuck you, have a tissue.
    Oh no, I like the idea. It's the thinking behind the approach that I maintain doubts. Don't confuse my perspective on that "fuck your fear & lazy ass and undock" niche (good) with the general development of copypasta organisations throughout New Eden (not so good).

    Let me put it this way, what are the differences these days - besides the marketing - between player organisations. There's a tier of professionalism, one of aptitude, another of finance, one of logistics, but that is about it. Methodology, focus, mentality, more and more gearing towards the same easily managed little kingdoms. Which is fine, if this is what CCP wants, but that will mean that they have to start working towards replacing engines of destructive behaviour, with engines of consumptive behaviour. Oh dear, every change of the past two years has carried an element of that :-)

    I disagree a lot. Alliances might look the same to the outside, i.e doctrines and sov management and infrastructure etc etc, but there's quite a bit of cultural differences across the board. Groups adapting to what works is only a natural and ever existing dynamic, but letme tell you from personal experience there's fairly huge operational differences between groups. I've gotten to know a lot of alliances and their procedures over the years, especially when coordinating our spies... there's massive differences indeed. I'd write some shit down but I'm guessing everyone who's been in more than 1 group can attest to that.
    Last edited by Fara; July 18 2017 at 07:30:58 PM.

  16. #7136
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fara View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Impressive bitterness there.

    Personally I'm a ok with the new moon mining concepts, because they involve ships undocked and active. Can't be arsed and expect to afk control your moons with the threat of a largely unsubbed superfleet? Too bad, fuck you, have a tissue.
    Oh no, I like the idea. It's the thinking behind the approach that I maintain doubts. Don't confuse my perspective on that "fuck your fear & lazy ass and undock" niche (good) with the general development of copypasta organisations throughout New Eden (not so good).

    Let me put it this way, what are the differences these days - besides the marketing - between player organisations. There's a tier of professionalism, one of aptitude, another of finance, one of logistics, but that is about it. Methodology, focus, mentality, more and more gearing towards the same easily managed little kingdoms. Which is fine, if this is what CCP wants, but that will mean that they have to start working towards replacing engines of destructive behaviour, with engines of consumptive behaviour. Oh dear, every change of the past two years has carried an element of that :-)

    I disagree a lot. Alliances might look the same to the outside, i.e doctrines and sov management and infrastructure etc etc, but there's quite a bit of cultural differences across the board. Groups adapting to what works is only a natural and ever existing dynamic, but letme tell you from personal experience there's fairly huge operational differences between groups. I've gotten to know a lot of alliances and their procedures over the years, especially when coordinating our spies... there's massive differences indeed. I'd write some shit down but I'm guessing everyone who's been in more than 1 group can attest to that.
    Dunno. I'm in most, but aside of brand / identity / marketing I see virtually no real differences. Sure, there's remnants of cumulative and composed background, but that's where things come from. Not where it is, or even where it is going.

    Let me put it this way, a big forte of eve is found in its emphasis on specialisation and diversification. Except where it comes to the geo-economics, except where it comes to the triggers for organisational development. Everything is geared towards making everything the same.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  17. #7137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fara View Post


    Roaming stopped being popular because there's less bad people around. Roaming, you generally catch bad players. I've done about 1k kills in small gang warfare or solo roaming, when you catch less and less because there's things like intel channels or EFT that got popular you stop doing it because flying around for 2h not getting shit or just very few small fish is only fun for so long.


    Roaming was fun for good players because they cared about optimizing fittings and tryharded enough that it was easy to pwn noobs that didn't even know what a fitting tool or nanohacs were.
    Stop being bad.

  18. #7138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fara View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Impressive bitterness there.

    Personally I'm a ok with the new moon mining concepts, because they involve ships undocked and active. Can't be arsed and expect to afk control your moons with the threat of a largely unsubbed superfleet? Too bad, fuck you, have a tissue.
    Oh no, I like the idea. It's the thinking behind the approach that I maintain doubts. Don't confuse my perspective on that "fuck your fear & lazy ass and undock" niche (good) with the general development of copypasta organisations throughout New Eden (not so good).

    Let me put it this way, what are the differences these days - besides the marketing - between player organisations. There's a tier of professionalism, one of aptitude, another of finance, one of logistics, but that is about it. Methodology, focus, mentality, more and more gearing towards the same easily managed little kingdoms. Which is fine, if this is what CCP wants, but that will mean that they have to start working towards replacing engines of destructive behaviour, with engines of consumptive behaviour. Oh dear, every change of the past two years has carried an element of that :-)

    I disagree a lot. Alliances might look the same to the outside, i.e doctrines and sov management and infrastructure etc etc, but there's quite a bit of cultural differences across the board. Groups adapting to what works is only a natural and ever existing dynamic, but letme tell you from personal experience there's fairly huge operational differences between groups. I've gotten to know a lot of alliances and their procedures over the years, especially when coordinating our spies... there's massive differences indeed. I'd write some shit down but I'm guessing everyone who's been in more than 1 group can attest to that.
    Write some shit down anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  19. #7139
    Marlona Sky's Avatar
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    So instead of carrying your own weight, piloting wise, in a fight - you want one guy to do it for hundreds? Right, so gather around and let me explain why that is fucking terrible for the game.

    Those glorious fleet commanders that do all that get burned out pretty damn fast. It is a fuck load of work. Sure you don't envy them, but understand they are facilitating decision making because you choose not to. Now fast forward a bit and then realize there is no war. Why? You can point fingers at citadels, sure some can be blamed on it a bit, but not all. Not even half. Your glorious FC decides to have a fucking life and because to go to war in null means coordinating a fuck load of stuff over here, dedicating a fuck load of time there and then doing the on the ground work in fights - they say fuck that shit, I'm taking a break. So, no war.

    You think they are going to allow some mindless F1 monkey fucks to start a war because they are bored and have no glorious FCs to lead them into battle? Fuck no. They are going to set up staged fights for you. Something that doesn't cause problems, much less wars. You're going to have a bunch of rules to have as a yoke, to keep the current borders and status quo the same. Why? Because any mess you make they have to deal with and they are trying to have a life outside the game right now. The idea that what they worked on could be altered while they are on a siesta is a no go zone. Because it means more work for them. "Here line members, go PvE to make money. You will need it for the war to come." War never comes, at least not a real war. Just some friendly nerf gun skirmishes with the neighbor now and then all the while asking how the misses is and congratulating their little Timmy's participation award in this seasons little league football team.

    I'm not saying people should have to do the work of current fleet commanders, but to do more of their share, which of course lessens the load of your current fleet commander. But like you said, you don't want to think and enjoy just pressing F1 only and demand fat tics for your wallet. No one is asking you to stress out playing a game. No one is asking you to strategize out conquering an entire region to the last kilometer. The current situation between the F1 monkey and the fleet commander is a giant fucking ocean and there is just a tiny amount of spots in between. I'm just suggesting that the most effective way for these battles to happen is for individual pilots to get broad direction from the fleet commander and then to fly a ship they pick, fit how they want, shoot who they want and all that under that fleet commanders broad order.

    Want to know what is killing the game? Go look in the mirror. The most effective way to fight in medium to large battles is fucking boring to almost everyone. But people do it because it is the most effective way with the current game mechanics. So change the game mechanics so the most effective way is the most fun way. Is that crazy talk or something? I guess that's me trying to "change your game" and all that. As long as CCP keeps listening to lazy players like you, this game is doomed.

    EVE needs to make changes that encourage players to have more influence over the actions happening around them. This includes battles, especially the larger ones. So when that sweet victory happens, every player can take in that amazing feeling that is they helped make it happen. Like truly made it happen. Not just some, "I hit F1 a fuck load and my FC lead us to victory" bullshit that some of you masterbait over. That is not what gets and retains players to this game. They have no story to tell that is theirs. They have the exact same fucking story that several hundred other nerds have and it revolves around their fleet commander and other select few leadership involved. It needs to resonate with them and have the power to get other people who are not involved in the fights or even in the game at all hyped as fuck and want to join in.
    Last edited by Marlona Sky; July 19 2017 at 03:58:09 AM.

  20. #7140

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    I hate to break it to you, but that is not what Joe Line Member wants. How do I know? Because if they did they would be doing it. Every alliance I have ever been in was always looking for more people to do more. More scouts, more logi anchors, more junior FCs, more whatever is between being F1 monkey #8473 and being Elo Knight. Just like in RL there are few people willing and able to be the CEO, but almost any monkey can work at the cash register. If people wanted to fly their own ship, make their own way, or whatever else we wouldn't have 4-5 mega-blobs, and would have hundreds of 100ish pilot alliances all duking it out with each other locally. CCP has made myriad changes, but the herd almost always grows. Yes, some people move from 1 herd to another, but it is still a herd.

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